These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

On Tukoss's remains and the DED

Author
Sahriah BloodStone
No.Mercy
Triumvirate.
#21 - 2015-06-28 23:30:32 UTC
I have to say, this saddens me greatly. While i respect the decision made and the reasons behind it, I don't believe it was the right one.

We've now shown that coercion and manipulation through the threatening of innocents is a tolerable means of dealing with situations.

CONCORD needs a drastic revision of policy. I hope the Empires take the P.P.C documents seriously and that they will pave the way for positive change.

Sahriah Bloodstone

No.Mercy // Triumvirate

"Never underestimate your enemy or disrespect its abilities. If you do, you shall become the hunted "

H1de0
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#22 - 2015-06-28 23:43:00 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:
H1de0 wrote:
A sense of great relief follows Raholan-san's decission as we all can leave politics aside and focus on science again.

Let us just hope that the DED, should they dig up anything new with the sample, will make their research results public.


Ahahahahahaaha


Always glad that my post, no matter naive or not, made somebody's day;). At Your service..

Decrypting the Sleeper cache..

Pieter Tuulinen
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#23 - 2015-06-29 00:24:55 UTC
Sahriah BloodStone wrote:
I have to say, this saddens me greatly. While i respect the decision made and the reasons behind it, I don't believe it was the right one.

We've now shown that coercion and manipulation through the threatening of innocents is a tolerable means of dealing with situations.

CONCORD needs a drastic revision of policy. I hope the Empires take the P.P.C documents seriously and that they will pave the way for positive change.


You can't blame the man. Concord's threat was a serious embuggerance and irritation, but the Empire threatened to strip his title and holdings. Can you imagine what would have happened to his House under those circumstances?

He was thinking of his people, not his pride, and that's never something for which a person should be castigated.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Anslo
Scope Works
#24 - 2015-06-29 00:36:50 UTC
Sahriah BloodStone wrote:
I have to say, this saddens me greatly. While i respect the decision made and the reasons behind it, I don't believe it was the right one.

We've now shown that coercion and manipulation through the threatening of innocents is a tolerable means of dealing with situations.

CONCORD needs a drastic revision of policy. I hope the Empires take the P.P.C documents seriously and that they will pave the way for positive change.


Yes because some brain matter is worth the suffering of capsuleers who had absolutely no say in the matter whatsoever.

Naive outlook.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Sahriah BloodStone
No.Mercy
Triumvirate.
#25 - 2015-06-29 00:42:09 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:


You can't blame the man. Concord's threat was a serious embuggerance and irritation, but the Empire threatened to strip his title and holdings. Can you imagine what would have happened to his House under those circumstances?

He was thinking of his people, not his pride, and that's never something for which a person should be castigated.


As I said, I respect the decision made and the reasons behind it, although I was not actually aware they had threatened to strip his title and holdings.

I find it most alarming that CONCORD would go to these measures, and even more so that the Amarr support this by threatening such things, especially after releasing the shield tech. Rather hypocritical don't you think?

CONCORD more concerned over burying a piece of brain (so we're told) than an Empire breaking treaties and releasing powerful technology. What a time we live in.

Sahriah Bloodstone

No.Mercy // Triumvirate

"Never underestimate your enemy or disrespect its abilities. If you do, you shall become the hunted "

Mynxee
Signal Cartel
EvE-Scout Enclave
#26 - 2015-06-29 00:49:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Mynxee
Sir, I am not sure that would have been my choice but you have my respect for what was obviously a difficult and carefully weighed decision. At least with this approach you and your associates will be able to continue to pursue your work unfettered.

It is a pity that CONCORD opted for such over-the-top strong-arm tactics. They've made it very tough to trust their motives and intent going forward. Any information they may release in future about the remains you turned over (presumably in its entirety except for what may have been destroyed by your examination and testing) will be suspect in my eyes.

This travesty has been a topic of much debate within our Research Division. Many of us are concerned that the powers that be will simply sweep the matter under the rug and we will hear no more of the good Dr. Tukoss or the mysteries surrounding him. I find myself wondering what actions may be taken against those who refuse to let that happen.

Lost in space, looking for sigs...

Blog: Cloaky Wanderer

Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#27 - 2015-06-29 00:52:25 UTC
We'll have to see if CONCORD does the honorable thing and reverses their heavy handed tactics and threats of negative security status and so forth.

Personally I don't trust them a lick.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#28 - 2015-06-29 01:15:00 UTC
It seems prudent to reply here. Lord Raholan, you have my unfailing esteem and support. There was no easy answer here. I think you have made a good decision. To yourself, to Makoto, to Celes; I'm always happy to work with you, and look forward to future investigations of this nature. Your work is beyond reproach.

To everyone who has been following this parade; thank you for tolerating the noise and fanfare. Hopefully it has been entertaining if not informative.

To Brigadier-General Odo Korachi; you are an embarrassment to the State that birthed you.

Thank you for your patience, everyone.

- Scherezad
Research Associate, Lai Dai RBC,
Pilot, RDC, I-RED
Ninavask
Alexylva Paradox
#29 - 2015-06-29 02:00:09 UTC
It is disgusting that CONCORD would act in this way. Taking the remains of such a brilliant scientist from those who would be the only ones likely to handle the remains with respect and offer the man the dignity he deserves.

I agree with others, hopefully CONCORD is transparent about their intentions, but let's face it pilots. CONCORD has never been transparent, and will never be transparent about their intentions. Resorting to bullying and Threats.

I only wish such an ugly situation could have been avoided.

Signed,
Dr. Ninavask Revan
Curator, The Synenose Accord

Dr. Ninavask Revan

Colonist

Alexylva Paradox

The views above are the opinions and beliefs of Dr. Ninavask and do in no way reflect on his employeers or associates at the time of posting.

Odo Korachi
DED
CONCORD Assembly
#30 - 2015-06-29 02:12:59 UTC
Lord Raholan,

The Directive Enforcement Department thanks you for making the right decision.

Medical staff at DED headquarters have already fully confirmed my fears, and the fears of others also involved in this investigation. Full genetic match in line with Directive Enforcement Department records.

The remains of Dr. Hilen Tukoss (PISC – 90415406 ) have been formally and legally identified, and his records will be updated within the next 48 hours to reflect his status as deceased.

Once this process is complete, formal legal notification of confirmation of his death will be provided to Eifyr and Co, and the process of exercising his last will and testament may begin.

Consider the aforementioned sanctions laid out in the release marked “STATEMENT – REF 117/06/25 - 099-345697234-099” null and void.

The Directive Enforcement Department has no further cause or reason to pursue any of those involved and named in the release marked “STATEMENT – REF 117/06/25 - 099-345697234-099”, and all charges are hereby rescinded.

After meeting with Fleet Marshal Vesren this evening, the Directive Enforcement Department considers this matter closed, and the relevant authorities have been informed of their citizen’s choice to comply with Interstellar Law.

Once again, the Directive Enforcement Department thank both yourself and your colleagues for your compliance.

To those who seek to levy personal attacks against myself and wider verbal attacks against the DED, feel free. The Directive Enforcement Department is mandated to uphold the integrity of the Yulai Convention and ensure compliance with Interstellar Law, it is not within our scope of operations to bend the rules for those who feel they may be above the law.

Regards,

Brg. Gn. Odo Korachi
Marshal, Genesis Fleet
Directive Enforcement Department
CONCORD Assembly
Sanguina Dieudonne
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2015-06-29 02:25:46 UTC
The next time someone gets their hands on something that CONCORD wants, I am sure that GSF would be willing to take it for safe keeping. (I am not a diplo, though.)
Matar Ronin
#32 - 2015-06-29 02:28:01 UTC
CONCORD is not a police force to protect Capsuleers, they are the police force to protect against Capsuleers, recognize the difference.

Do not trust those who seek your destruction or subjugation as a matter of policy.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Loen Janeway
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2015-06-29 03:36:56 UTC
Lord Raholan I am glad that you and yours will remain safe and not becomes fugitives, but I have to also side with Mynxee and Ms. Sahriah. While I would like to believe that CONCORD has our best interests at heart I cannot help but wonder.

I do hope you know, as Mynxee stated, it was hotly debated within our divisions, and while we strive to maintain the highest level of neutrality, we will always be available as scouts, researchers, etc for you and yours just as much as we are for CONCORD.
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#34 - 2015-06-29 04:08:46 UTC
This is wonderful news. I'm so pleased you came to this decision, Lord Raholan.

On the downside, I can no longer eat the cakes people were sending to Scherezad. That's a pity.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Rhavas
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#35 - 2015-06-29 04:12:41 UTC
When CONCORD demanded Sleeper components with no risk, fools gave, despite a third-party option that would have held them to account. CONCORD benefited and yet kept us in the dark.

We still have not been told why the Sleeper component drive was truly required for the Tech 3 Destroyers, or what connection it had to Thera. We still have not been told of what CONCORD knew of the Sisters involvement and their doings while hiding there. We have not been told in any way why the Society of Conscious Thought was invited to the Inner Circle discussions, yet Eifyr & Co. was not, nor were the facts ever released.

And what have we gained? Drifters. Maybe that's a good trade.

When they offered bounties of unheard levels on four capsuleers - something that was not done even for Tibus Heth himself, a true menace to the stability of New Eden - you caved, and Korachi gloats while you give away your independence and the sovereignty of the individual empires. And do you think we will truly get the full story of what they were looking for so urgently? I think we all know that answer.

You had offers of safe harbor, financial support, and the moral high ground. But I guess the threat of title revocation and a bumpy ride to a CONCORD-free clone vat was too unpalatable. A price too high for freedom. Another small step on the path to your "Empress" being simply too weak to do anything but bend the knee herself to the "greater good".

Too many in this discussion embrace the slow death of 1000 cuts. You are immortal, you are empowered, yet you cower before an organization that has outlived its usefulness, its sponsorship, and its charter. The light of Caroline's Star has heralded a new age, and it is time to embrace it.

I am a Lord of Anoikis, as are all in Bob's grace. The Mittani could crush one of the old Empires with barely a pause if he chose to do so. The future is not beneath the cloak of blindness CONCORD throws over you.

Yet you chose to be a beholden Holder. Or whatever CONCORD might title you now that you are properly subservient.

Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary

Aegea Siannodel
Trantor Mentalics
#36 - 2015-06-29 04:14:50 UTC
Lucas Raholan , I understand why you did what you did, given the orders you received from those you respect and obey. Also thank you for making this situation so public that DED and Concord can't just hide behind their power.

I highly doubt we will be told anything actually useful by odo korachi, as seen already above. Any further information released should be viewed as suspect, due to the overly dramatic and heavy handed response they felt necessary to control the situation, they clearly didn't have control over and more then likely still don't.

We as capsuleers should use the full legal rules in the convention to keep the pressure on dud and concord and pry the information we need from their grasp, not waiting for them to "give" it to us when it is useful to them. We are not tools of concord for their whim and use.



Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#37 - 2015-06-29 04:27:39 UTC
Sanguina Dieudonne wrote:
The next time someone gets their hands on something that CONCORD wants, I am sure that GSF would be willing to take it for safe keeping. (I am not a diplo, though.)




Next time, nobody is going to know about it.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#38 - 2015-06-29 04:52:00 UTC
Rhavas wrote:
When CONCORD demanded Sleeper components with no risk, fools gave, despite a third-party option that would have held them to account. CONCORD benefited and yet kept us in the dark.


I'm sorry, CONCORD? The empires called for donations, and it was to the empires we donated. The hundreds of components PIE collected were sent to the Imperial Navy, contracted directly to Admiral Karetta, not to CONCORD.

Quote:
The Mittani could crush one of the old Empires with barely a pause if he chose to do so.


Hardly.


I also don't see how CONCORD, or the empires, owes us anything.
John Revenent
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#39 - 2015-06-29 05:14:43 UTC
The Ishukone-Raata Enforcement Directive would like to commend Lord Lucas Raholan on his choice to submit to the lawful demands of CONCORD.

I wish to personally convey my thanks for taking the logical course of action on a matter that would have brought harm to relations between several like-minded organizations and degraded the merits of other individuals. Rikaato.

Ishukone Loyalist - Private Contractor

"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned."

Rhavas
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#40 - 2015-06-29 05:20:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Rhavas
Samira Kernher wrote:
Rhavas wrote:
When CONCORD demanded Sleeper components with no risk, fools gave, despite a third-party option that would have held them to account. CONCORD benefited and yet kept us in the dark.


I'm sorry, CONCORD? The empires called for donations, and it was to the empires we donated. The hundreds of components PIE collected were sent to the Imperial Navy, contracted directly to Admiral Karetta, not to CONCORD.


So charmingly naive. From the Scope story of the first research completion: "a short notice meeting of the CONCORD Assembly's Inner Circle has been called, apparently to discuss the implications of further weaponization of Sleeper derived technologies." How exactly do you think they came to the conclusion simultaneously that it was a good idea to start their "research race"? The answer is quite simple: CONCORD Directive Alpha Gamma 12.

Samira Kernher wrote:
I also don't see how CONCORD, or the empires, owes us anything.


You make my point. They owe you nothing. If you are your own person, make your own choice. If you are loyal to an Empire, see how their sovereignty is eroded through these actions.

If you are already a one-cluster government sheep, I cannot help you.

Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary