EVE General Discussion

We did have a ton of fun, and I know everyone in my fleet did too.

As for why we don't do this kind of thing more often, as one of the primary FC's for Burn Amarr, I think I can give you a good answer. Logistics. Getting the massive amounts of ships, modules, and players together in the right place, scheduling the event at a good time, and getting enough buzz going to make sure we would be able to do it 24/7 for days is no small task, and takes a LOT of work.

If you want to see this kind of thing more often, you would be shocked what a single player can do. Drop a pilot into Karmafleet, get some ganking experience, join Miniluv, and start running events like this. We'd love to see more of it too!

GRRRR GOON COMMUNISTS

^this = the reason why I have more money than everyone near Amarr right now

A "Burn Amarr" event ?




Yeah amarr was about to burn to hell, we got 911 and Domain Fire Department and Amarr Police all over the place. A couple of suicide firestarter goonies invaded into the Empire.

Rhamnousia Nosferatu, if you think that all groups that engage in ganking hold the same views, you would be sorely dissapointed. You highlighted the primary issue with AG in your post.



It doesn't strike you as strange that the gamut of people involved run from those that want to see mechanics changes to the game to those that think people playing the game are morally reprehensible? I have enjoyed the ops I have run fighting against code and their allies as much if not more than I have enjoyed ganking. The mechanics are already in place to effectively oppose gank groups, and while I would like to see an increase in interaction between the two sides, AG does not function as a entity that fights what what they believe in. The vast majority sit in a chat channel and whine about how they can't do anything, while every day a very small group go out and do good work fighting against high sec criminals. Those few have little to no voice in the average conversations in the channel, turning it into a cesspit of complaints and trolls.

On top of this, the people that do show up for fleets have no comprehension of how to organize. They expect to be able to respond effectively with no voice communication, no intel, and most of the time completely fail to be on grid with the target being ganked. One time in particular that I remember I joined an AG fleet only to find that only three of the twelve people in the fleet were able to speak on comms, and none were taking charge. I was on my well known AG alt, and should never have been let into the fleet in the first place, but immediately found myself not just getting in, but also FC-ing the fleet.

AG as an experiment is a complete and utter failure. Having a decent organization taking up the role of a player police force would be good for eve, but attempts to organize AG into that force have failed miserably. The only decent thing coming out of AG is the gank-intel channel, and even that is under utilized.

Won't help. All it takes is for someone to aggress you before you warp off. Sure, they'll get popped by CONCORD, but you'll warp off grid, get scanned down and killed even more easily than you would on the gate.

Failure or not, the channels are there, open to anyone and everyone to join and judge for themselves. I don't think its such a failure or loyal (a code fc btw) would not be continually polluting the local with his AG-this, AG-that spam. I don't think that AG is as effective as a centralized organisation, with appropriate IT infrastructure (TS, forums, jabber etc.), but it certainly is a thorn in someone's side.

There are a lot of questions here which could be discussed until the server finally shuts (do we want pve focused people in the game? Should risk averse and less informed folks be allowed to play at all? Do you have to be hard-core on getting all the possible information on the game to even think of stepping into a freighter in high-sec. I'd say - yes, yes, and not necessarily since more subs can only make the game better. However, try even thinking that way you'll get a bunch of seriously toxic 'HTFU, dis eez pvp game' crew on board and any discussion is sentenced to become a cesspool of sheetposting.
Well guess what, yes I had to solve the famous f-you rubic cube, but I don't think that's the best way to introduce folks to this game any more than ganking and then laughing at the confusion of the victim is.

In terms of mechanics, all I've seen is that they don't really work in favor of groups who want to stop ganks. Kilrights are a joke, bounties are a joke, infini-bumping is a joke. Yes, code are -10 (most of them at least) but goons are usually not. Even if they are, they still can freely warp around, even in high-security status systems, and you can only stop so much on the gates if they use those at all (the only place where interdiction of their movement can really happen). In space, while using BM's - well, good luck trying to catch stragglers. Furthermore, on rare occasions when we (AG fleets) had the numbers, there was a simple counter - multiple bumpers. Logi ships have worse navigational parameters then catalysts for example, so you only need several simultaneous bumpers to be active to negate any effectiveness of logi fleet (yes you can sit on a single target, but in the mean time others will die and yes - this had happened).

Realistically, for equal number of people active, gankers get their kills most of the times and - as I said, they have all the numbers and support they could ever need. There is also the utterly stupid fleet hanger mechanic which allows for complete safe extraction of any loot which is less then 50k m3 in size. The only fairly effective counter to freighter ganking, or better put - gankers profiting from ganking, is popping the wreck. Should that be the most effective option - I doubt it. There should be a way to counter bumping once it started, there should be a rework of killrights and bounties to get some isk into crime-fighters pocekts due to kills of criminals, dst mechanic should be reworked (also, semi-related to this topic - there should be a serious re-work of hisec wars and npc corps and maybe even hisec in general, but I have no ideas on how and what to do about it).

Btw, while typing I got an idea -HAULERS IF YOU WANT TO HELP FOLKS FIGHTING GANKERS, HAUL IN FREIGHTER-SIZED CARGO CONTAINERS (not wrapped ones thou). If we can't stop the gank, at least we can try catching ganker loot freighters and have a fighting chance of stopping the looting.

If ganking weren't braindead activity, completely foolproof and almost guaranteed result no matter what chosen grief victim does, CODE would fail a lot more than half the time.

CCP, please introduce some skill and cost into ganking, you're basically bleeding subs while it remains free and stupidly easy.

Nice troll

Regardless of what I or anyone else says and regardless of arguments based on fact and experience, you'll just come with the same responses. That's why I've stopped discussing with code members but you are not really worth the effort either. At least one can try bringing this subject to CCP and CSM, some of those actually listen.
I'll repeat one last time and then you're on ignore - ganking the ganker in hisec IS NOT A REASONABLE/LOGICAL COUNTER (possible = reasonable), concord manipulation is not one either (why should I suicide my main or alt and ruin their sec status to pre-spawn concord for you and delay ganks a bit while actually buying you more time for ganks once you draw concord off). Logi thing I won't bother to comment. kthxbai.

If you read what i said you will note that they don't most of the time. And the can't tell if your logging out. You ship just disappears. It does not warp off. I have seen it done in burn Jita. I have done it myself. A lot of people don't know the log of safly mechanic very well.

Most of the time they won't trip the pvp time and bring concord on grid. It makes ganks harder.