Player Features and Ideas Discussion

some speed + mid + pg please

Low slot to mid slot, simplest change that would make it actually remotely viable.

Four mids to shield tank, it's EVE 101. And nobody armor tanks a Muninn unless they're awful and in a Zealot fleet (and I haven't even heard of a Zealot fleet since the HAC balance, thanks Ishtars!)

Or a high to a mid and more grid to make fitting arty not ridiculous (and the loss of the utility high limits AC builds abusing the grid for a neut up there) and keeps lows for projection/DPS.

Or they could just fix arty fitting in general, that'd be nice.

Supported.

Sac is getting an indirect boost with the next patch.
That being said, not even Black Legion flies Muninns anymore. I remember when they used to be our go-to fast response ship.

Because then it wouldn't hit anything in optimal range with 720mm. With that bonus it has laser tracking and better range than lasers. Better tracking even, if you're one of the crazies that remembers tracking ammo is a thing.

Mostly medium are pretty bad and the muninn is the only sniping cruiser that uses them. 720mm use as much PG as heavy beams on ships that don't have the base grid to do that.

Vaga is "ok" as anti-frig. But there are far more ships that do "anti-frig" better than vagabond, for cheaper as well. Plus the cynabun and vagabond having pretty much identical stats doesnt help either. Or that a vaga cant fit arty and be viable, which the cyna can kind of do. So the vaga is stuck with acs, and with 3 range mods, barely breaks 300dps at point range.

Sac seems to be pretty good, but people dont use it because its not fast enough for them. I will fly a sac no problem. Actually training into amarr for that reason. Minny dont have good brawler ships, except the SFI (sorta). I actually fit up a couple muninns as ac brawlers with dual armor reps. It works okish, assuming you know how to bait them into thinking youre arty fit. Have to fit ab for range control, since you have no web. IF we had a 4th mid, it would become a t2 SFI pretty much. Which isnt a bad thing.

If nothing else, id like to see CCP add some more HP into armor, as it sits now, it bleeds armor fast, even with 91% EM resist. Armor HP is around 2500 now. Bumping it up to 3-3.2k could help a little. Preferably, id take a 4th mid and be done with it.. but if CCP is doing this tweak 100hp at a time thing (like what theyre doing with ishtar), that would be a good place to start.

For pvp, you really want to get a hull making 2km/s+ to pull that off where it matters, so tornado/linked sleipnir are sane choices. Look at the ship you want to nuke and move parallel, get your velocity up and his down if possible and cycle guns.

Roughly similar to how you exploit someones orbit-500m command in some edge cases by manually cutting into their orbit.

lawl, someobody said Munnin.

Let's see. This, again. it basically explains everything. You can have an un-fit ishtar and it will outperform a fully fit Munnin.

the solution is to cheapen the powergrid costs of artillery and adjust the few ships which need adjusting to avoid egregious abuses of that. like the Cynabal; a 720 Artybal used to be barely doable, but if you make the 720mm as cheap to fit as a 425mm AC, suddenly you may find the Artybal having a bit too much PG spare, i dunno.

The balance of the Munnin was done with brains set in 2008 mode, when drones sucked and real men drove arty meta. But that's long gone - DDA's are now here, as are various other drone buff modules, and people can now target broadcasts, which results, more or less, in viable drone alpha +/- drone assign working.

Secondly, the most viable alpha fleets these days are Beam Legions, Slippery Petes and Attack battlecruisers.
* Why use the Munnin with 720's when the Tornado does the same job?
* You can't compete with a Beam legion as a fleet alpha ship because 140K EHP - you're never getting that out of a Munnin.
* For ultra-long range sniping you can't beat the Slippery Pete with a slow, high-sig arty platform like the Munnin, with a lower ROF and "better" alpha.

Armour brawling AC HAC? You use the Scythe Fleet with 90m sig versus this clunky piece of crap. You get better speed with Ab, full tackle, and can even go for a missile fit. Munnin sig is 125 (+35) and speed is 260 (-40m/s) compared to an SciFi. You lose about 5K EHP but you pick that back up with the cheapness (-150M) and lower sig radius, higher orbit velocity, and did i mention missiles?

It is abundantly clear the Munnin needs 10 slots.

it is abundantly clear the Munnin needs at least 200 PG more.

It is abundantly clear that artillery needs to be chopped down to within 5% of the PG cost of equivalent autocannons. eg;
T2 720mm 248 PG -> 160 PG (ie a 425mm +5 PG)
T2 650mm 196 PG -> 90PG (ie; a 180mm +10 PG)

The damage profile is therm/kin right there.