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[Rebalance] The Wrecks

First post First post
Author
Anthar Thebess
#61 - 2015-06-25 07:11:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Krops Vont wrote:
If this is considered, which it has been mentioned multiple times, can we have a trade off like scannable/warpable or not warpable on grid like drones are.


One thing at the time.
Currently we need this badly before fleet warp changes hit.

There are many possibilities how we can use wrecks - i like the idea about "mining" bigger ones.
CCP could pin topic dedicated to wrecks , as making capital wrecks un-destroyable until completely "mined out" is fun idea for me.

THink about all those mining ships around super carrier wreck Twisted
Aeon Veritas
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2015-06-25 09:23:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Aeon Veritas
+1 for the OP idea

A small extension of the idea could be to add mass to the wrecks (maybe half of average mass of the ship class?) and somehow calculate the mass with the base velocity of tractor beams.
Because at the moment a titan wreck could be drawn with 2400m/sec from a Noctis...
Maybe the Small tractor beams should be rendered unable to draw XL and XXL wrecks. (sizes acc. OP)
That could give the Rorq a new role for after fleet fights...
Edit: better attribute would be "Force" since velocity = force / massRoll
Nyalnara
Marauder Initiative
#63 - 2015-06-25 09:30:20 UTC
Uuuuuuse the foooorce, Luke...Blink

French half-noob.

Non, je ne suis pas gentil.

Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2015-06-25 09:46:30 UTC
In general I have no objection to this idea, however in order to be implemented, looting mechanics (at least) need to be fixed (namely DST fleet hangar mechanic).

Otherwise its just a stealth buff to gankers who (obviously) are getting a bit hurt in their backs due to the fact that some of the folks fighting them actually started popping the wrecks (as they - the gankers, suggested in one thread Lol).

So -1 atm, with +1 potential. Also, numbers need to be worked on a bit (tone them down maybe).
Anthar Thebess
#65 - 2015-06-25 10:03:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
In general I have no objection to this idea, however in order to be implemented, looting mechanics (at least) need to be fixed (namely DST fleet hangar mechanic).

Otherwise its just a stealth buff to gankers who (obviously) are getting a bit hurt in their backs due to the fact that some of the folks fighting them actually started popping the wrecks (as they - the gankers, suggested in one thread Lol).

So -1 atm, with +1 potential. Also, numbers need to be worked on a bit (tone them down maybe).

I think it is not hard to block moving cargo to fleet hangar based on crime watch mechanic.
For me this is crucial for nullsec.
Very often when you have 4-5 groups engaged on the gate i just probed down a ship and warped my main on top of the fight , now there is no way to do it, and trust me killing wrecks to remove warpins is quite common thing to do.

All kite doctrines use this.
Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2015-06-25 10:25:24 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:

I think it is not hard to block moving cargo to fleet hangar based on crime watch mechanic.


Unfortunately, it is. You might not live in hisec, but this change would definitely be a giant buff to efficiency of freighter ganking.
Anthar Thebess
#67 - 2015-06-25 10:34:56 UTC
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:

I think it is not hard to block moving cargo to fleet hangar based on crime watch mechanic.


Unfortunately, it is. You might not live in hisec, but this change would definitely be a giant buff to efficiency of freighter ganking.


But at the same time solve very important issue after fleet warp changes.
Like in life , you fix something just to brake 2 other things.

In nullsec i want to have fun when i undock , rather than watch someone having it 200km away , without getting a proper warpin.
Try to get near frigate / destroyer / kite cruiser brawl, when you :
- probe
- warp alt
- warp your ship to alt

enemy will be 70km already.




Gingar Bread
Doomheim
#68 - 2015-06-25 11:05:26 UTC
Good Morning scrub,

It seems for as much as you tried to dupe people in your OP about how many noble reasons you had for having wrecks not pop so easily, your last 3 posts made it abundantly clear why you *actually* need wrecks to stay on grid.

Learn to play, learn to kite, stop flying triple plated ****, user probrs better or have a friend in a dedicated prober, have probes on your combat ship, there's quite a few options.
I think the "tl;dr" to you is L2P.
You're not getting free warp-ins now that CCP is removing fleet warps and sovlosers can't be warped around anymore.

From the CCP post:
"The goal of these changes is to encourage more individual fleet member participation and reduce the speed at which fleets can get on top of targets (e.g bombers)."

Your argument is going against exactly the reason why CCP is doing the warp changes in the first place.
And all the bandwagon jumpers are not better here.
kthxbai o/
Anthar Thebess
#69 - 2015-06-25 11:22:47 UTC
Lol.
You can warp to wrecks now.

I gave simple example how having ability to warp to wrecks is useful for a single player.
When you look at the fleet engagements this issue become bigger and bigger.

Ever tried to fly in a dictor?
Usually you sit around 200-300km away from main engagements , trying not to die from ceptors.
When you see a proper moment , or FC ask you to do so , you try to warp into the middle of enemy fleet and keep as many ships as you can on the field.

You will die instantly.
My record is 17 dictors lost in one fleet.

Probably i am bad at this game, but it is really hard to survive without reps, sitting in the middle of the enemy fleet in your own bubble.

You cannot count on any other warpin than enemy wreck.

CCP is shifting game to cruiser gangs , and they move quite fast , now we are talking about missile ships - so again this will be very fast fleets, kite fleets.
No way you can keep enemy fleet bubbled in crucial moment without having ability to warp to "fresh" wreck
Jin Kugu
Make Luv Not War
Goonswarm Federation
#70 - 2015-06-25 12:13:23 UTC
+1

For anyone that doesn't know wrecks have 500ehp(less than a pod) and 5000 sig radius(twice that of a dread). This means that anything can lock and kill it instantly.

With the fleet warp changes coming, now is a good time to deal with this because getting warpins from wrecks will be crucial.

The only argument people can bring up against this logical change is 'tears', this only proves to me that the current wrecks are frustrating to some people but don't have a good reason to be this flimsy.
Anthar Thebess
#71 - 2015-06-25 13:11:53 UTC
Something exploded, it is radioactive then signature can be big.
When you have only scrap metal left on field , it should need something more than a 1 bullet to destroy it.
InTrader Zim
State War Academy
Caldari State
#72 - 2015-06-25 15:16:51 UTC
Shocked +1 CCP, this is a really good idea!
Trader Bongo McButtStash
State War Academy
Caldari State
#73 - 2015-06-25 15:21:59 UTC
Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote:
Anthar Thebess wrote:

I think it is not hard to block moving cargo to fleet hangar based on crime watch mechanic.


Unfortunately, it is. You might not live in hisec, but this change would definitely be a giant buff to efficiency of freighter ganking.


Actually, this wouldn't effect freighters getting ganked period, just the loot retrieval after the fact. This does not prevent anything from dying any less often than it currently does.Big smile

Unfortunately, people are letting personal motives get in the way of changes that would mean a lot to a ton of different parts of the game for other people. A titan that has 100 million EHP shouldn't be able to have it's wreck popped by one bullet. Just my .02
Anathema De'vouis
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#74 - 2015-06-25 15:27:01 UTC
why hasn't this been thought of sooner! good idea, makes sense
Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2015-06-25 18:00:59 UTC
Trader Bongo McButtStash wrote:

Actually, this wouldn't effect freighters getting ganked period, just the loot retrieval after the fact. This does not prevent anything from dying any less often than it currently does.Big smile

Unfortunately, people are letting personal motives get in the way of changes that would mean a lot to a ton of different parts of the game for other people. A titan that has 100 million EHP shouldn't be able to have it's wreck popped by one bullet. Just my .02


Not sure but seriously doubt titans have 100 mil EHP in any configuration. Also, I too used to like posting on alts.
Nyalnara
Marauder Initiative
#76 - 2015-06-25 19:39:19 UTC
Been fiddling with Pyfa, easily go up to 50M.

French half-noob.

Non, je ne suis pas gentil.

ugly inside
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#77 - 2015-06-25 19:47:28 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
I like the idea in principle. I think your proposed EHP values are a bit high, but the idea is sound.

+1


HIgh?
Cruiser - battlecruiser can have from few to few dozen thousand EHP, so 1.5k ehp wreck is not much.
Battleship ehp start from frew dozen thousands , so 5k is small compared to this.
Capitals , they tend to have from few hundred thousands to few milion sometimes , again just 20k ehp
Supers , well those can go to few dozen milion ehp , and we have only 50k ehp on wreck ( 1 shoot to fighter bombers , or 2 shoots for dread)


take paper.. now punch paper.. it might have a hole in it if done right. take wood.. punch wood... now detonate dynomite next to wood.. now punch the wood chips.. take a gun.. shoot a jeep.. now blow the jeep up.. now shoot the jeep with the same gun.. things lose their structural integrity when they kinda lose their frame work. have you seen the wrecks up close. look like Picasso work for metal art.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#78 - 2015-06-25 20:26:13 UTC
Just massively reduce their sig so they can't be insta locked. It gives you a window to warp if you are paying attention. Saying it's normal for wreck to take more than one shot kinda forget the fact wreck would not be immobile and more than likely only be a bunch of pieces scattering in space thus not staying in place for you to warp to.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#79 - 2015-06-25 20:37:31 UTC
ugly inside wrote:


take paper.. now punch paper.. it might have a hole in it if done right. take wood.. punch wood... now detonate dynomite next to wood.. now punch the wood chips.. take a gun.. shoot a jeep.. now blow the jeep up.. now shoot the jeep with the same gun.. things lose their structural integrity when they kinda lose their frame work. have you seen the wrecks up close. look like Picasso work for metal art.


I can only think of something like a black hole that could completely destroy a car and remove it from the universe (and even then, its not truly destroyed). So what youre saying is it should take a doomsday volley to completely remove a wreck from the game?

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Rhamnousia Nosferatu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2015-06-25 20:48:25 UTC
Nyalnara wrote:
Been fiddling with Pyfa, easily go up to 50M.


Yes, 'easily' consisting of titan links, T2 trimarks, HG Slaves, and purple fit. Now double that somehow, please. Roll