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Next iteration of overview/bracket icons on Singularity

First post
Author
CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#221 - 2015-06-25 09:19:40 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
You kinda broke the ballistic control unit icon, please repair it so I can look at it again.


This thread is not about those icons, but if you can elaborate then I can pass it on?

Even better, please enter a defect through the F12 menu and we can take a look.

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters

Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
#222 - 2015-06-25 15:05:29 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
Yeah, they are not on SISI yet, hopefully late tomorrow or Friday.

We will absolutely let you know as soon as they land so you can let us know if they are helping the affected players.

Are there any plans to reduce the sheer number of superfluous icons, ie, all the separate sizes of asteroids/ice? (among many others) Because last i checked, those weren't really needed by a miner who "needs to make snap judgements about the tactical situation" on which rock to mine...when they are likely using a Survey Scanner anyways. Plus it just clutters up the overview and masks when a player ship arrives...since it used to be that the only things in belts that had icons were players...which made it quite obvious that someone warped in on you.

Incase you are wondering (probly not given the recent attitudes), there are alot of players who gave you lots of hours of their own personal time to prepare good constructive feedback last time, between me and my brother we put in 30-40 hours just for the icon feedback (including the "you have to find all the icons to see them" fiasco), that will likely not be troubling themselves with another massive set of hours/days of their personal time. In most cases its because their accounts are expired/ing long before any real change will come about.

PS: You had a full months worth of feedback from the last (current) set...even more if you count the feedback that is still valid from the previous "icon for every individual everything ever" set....and you didn't use any of it. What makes us believe that you will use less than a weeks worth?
CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#223 - 2015-06-26 09:29:53 UTC
Bracket and Overview icon changes are up on SISI.

Reduced number of drone icons.
Blue and filled friendly NPC.
Thicker line strokes so 90% should be a little better.

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters

Aeon Veritas
Black OP - Mining and Research
UNITATO SQUAD
#224 - 2015-06-26 09:48:35 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
Bracket and Overview icon changes are up on SISI.

Reduced number of drone icons.
Blue and filled friendly NPC.
Thicker line strokes so 90% should be a little better.
just for clarification, are all NPC filled or only friendly?
Darkblad
Doomheim
#225 - 2015-06-26 09:52:18 UTC
Aeon Veritas wrote:
just for clarification, are all NPC filled or only friendly?
Quote from here:
Darkblad wrote:
Sisi build 909753 just got deployed with this change to no hostile brackets - as well as some hostile NPC cruisers.

Shot the Overview, Dark Matther theme, no transparency and window blur off, window not pinned.
UI Scale @ 100%
Loors kind of teal to me. I wonder how this will blend with limited engagements.

NPEISDRIP

CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#226 - 2015-06-26 10:13:33 UTC
Aeon Veritas wrote:
CCP Claymore wrote:
Bracket and Overview icon changes are up on SISI.

Reduced number of drone icons.
Blue and filled friendly NPC.
Thicker line strokes so 90% should be a little better.
just for clarification, are all NPC filled or only friendly?


My bad, it is ALL NPC that are filled.

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters

Darkblad
Doomheim
#227 - 2015-06-26 14:14:21 UTC
Except for sentry guns, right? If my eyes did'nt play tricks on me, the filled area of gate sentries are less oqaque when compared to ships.

NPEISDRIP

CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#228 - 2015-06-26 14:52:31 UTC
Darkblad wrote:
Except for sentry guns, right? If my eyes did'nt play tricks on me, the filled area of gate sentries are less oqaque when compared to ships.


Sentries are not filled as they are structures, if this is confusing we could maybe look into filling them?

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters

Darkblad
Doomheim
#229 - 2015-06-26 14:57:50 UTC
No confusion on my side, I just wanted to verify that. Smile

NPEISDRIP

Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#230 - 2015-06-26 15:08:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Masao Kurata
I'm confused about why sentry guns were changed to blue too, this looks very strange as they're a different colour than the structure they protect.

...actually, this friendly blue(ish) colour is making me wonder... could you make it a different colour if they're hostile towards you because of security status, faction standing, militia and recent criminal activity? It's pretty weird to have NPCs that are actively hostile towards you be blue.
CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#231 - 2015-06-26 16:11:26 UTC
Masao Kurata wrote:
I'm confused about why sentry guns were changed to blue too, this looks very strange as they're a different colour than the structure they protect.

...actually, this friendly blue(ish) colour is making me wonder... could you make it a different colour if they're hostile towards you because of security status, faction standing, militia and recent criminal activity? It's pretty weird to have NPCs that are actively hostile towards you be blue.


But they are only actively hostile if you have been a naughty boy, where the ones in missions and anomalies are just out to kill you.

We are going to leave these as blue just now, but we are thinking we should put the fill on them as well.

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters

Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#232 - 2015-06-26 16:47:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Masao Kurata
CCP Claymore wrote:
But they are only actively hostile if you have been a naughty boy, where the ones in missions and anomalies are just out to kill you.


Naughty boys should get nice things too, this is EVE.

More seriously think about how confusing this would be for a new player who has, say, just came back from a fleet where he podded a guy or two and is now -3 or joins a militia corporation and goes a few jumps over to enemy space. It would be very helpful if NPCs that will attack you are red (or at the very least not a reassuring blue) regardless of whether they'll attack just anyone.
Fzhal
#233 - 2015-06-26 17:04:21 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
Masao Kurata wrote:
...actually, this friendly blue(ish) colour is making me wonder... could you make it a different colour if they're hostile towards you because of security status, faction standing, militia and recent criminal activity? It's pretty weird to have NPCs that are actively hostile towards you be blue.


But they are only actively hostile if you have been a naughty boy, where the ones in missions and anomalies are just out to kill you.

We are going to leave these as blue just now, but we are thinking we should put the fill on them as well.

Ya know... (I'm sure you've heard this countless times) If you gave us the ability to change the outline and fill colors the same way we can configure our overview, the icon design nuances would be a lot less important because. On fast moving things, color is a much better way to convey information than fine-detail things like icons and text. Honestly, I don't even bother looking at the icon in space, unless max-zoomed out, because even very different icons are too hard to differentiate at high speeds.

Except for some exceptions, our eyes/brains are hard-wired to prioritize our attention in a very predictable manner. Everyone knows that red is at the top, of course. We all totally understand whyhostile NPCs need to be red by default for new players. The problem really becomes important when you start ratting in hostile space. Your eyes are programmed to first focus on that bright red NPC. Once I started doing PvP, I wished that I could change the icon colors. It has been a gripe of mine forever...
Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#234 - 2015-06-26 17:08:57 UTC
Fzhal wrote:
Everyone knows that red is at the top, of course. We all totally understand whyhostile NPCs need to be red by default for new players. The problem really becomes important when you start ratting in hostile space. Your eyes are programmed to first focus on that bright red NPC. Once I started doing PvP, I wished that I could change the icon colors. It has been a gripe of mine forever...


Very true, one of the first things I did when I started playing was set a background colour for pilots with no standing so they'd immediately stand out on my overview... with the unfortunate consequence that any container owned by me got this background too because I had no standing toward myself.
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#235 - 2015-06-26 23:11:07 UTC
I'm thinking that 'blue hostiles' does sound needlessly confusing.
Captain Semper
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#236 - 2015-06-27 06:22:12 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
Bracket and Overview icon changes are up on SISI.

Reduced number of drone icons.
Blue and filled friendly NPC.
Thicker line strokes so 90% should be a little better.

CCP Claymore! Please! Hear me!

The most problem with drones that they always OVER any other brekets.

Naga closer to me then drone.

Just make their priority very low.
1-st i want to see ship brekets over other else. No matter how far or close they are.

Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#237 - 2015-06-28 05:47:06 UTC
Why do we have 8 icons for asteroids when 1 was previously sufficient?
Blue Harrier
#238 - 2015-06-28 12:57:54 UTC
You wanted information from a colour blind user, well this is mine, make the most of it as my last account expires on Thursday.

First test was on my HP laptop, 1366*768, Intel Iris Graphics, AA Disabled, Shadows Disabled, everything else on Low, Theme Guristas.

The new faint blue shaded icons are just visible in space and visible on the overview but the Gate Guns and Missile Batteries could really use a slightly larger icon.
When the Missile Batteries are hostile and red I cannot see them when in space or on the overview.

The Cruiser icons are the smallest icon I can see when red either in space or on the overview.
Frigate icons are none existent in any setting, however they do show up in space when selected in the overview by the white circle around them.

The next two tests I shall combine as they gave similar results, both used Nvidia graphics, one was a 23” 16*10 screen, one a 27” 16*9 screen. Settings as above but all others are on High.

The new faint blue shaded icons are visible in space and visible on the overview but the Gate Guns and Missile Batteries could really use a slightly larger icon.
When the Missile Batteries are hostile and red I cannot see them when in space but they are just visible on the overview.

The Cruiser icons are the smallest icon I can see when red either in space or on the overview, this icon is really the smallest icon size I can safely see when red.
Frigate icons are none existent in space however they do show up when selected in the overview by the white circle around the in space icon.

Frigate icons can just be seen in the overview but I need to concentrate to be able to differentiate the tiny icons from others especially if there are many and varied icons on the overview. Telling the frigate icon from a missile battery is very difficult unless I squint at the screen.

Part one of two.

"You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982.

Blue Harrier
#239 - 2015-06-28 13:05:39 UTC
Part two of two

The rest of this report applies to all the screen tests I did.

The Sensor Overlay has three icons for Signatures, Landmarks and Anomalies, the Signature is very faint on the menu and almost impossible to see when in space, it is only the large circle surrounding it that gives it away.

The Anomaly and Landmark icons in the Sensor Overlay menu are almost the same colour to me and only have a brightness difference when alongside each other.
The in space representation of the icons are different because the Anomaly icon is very dim against the bright icon of the Landmark.

So what would help me, I’m not saying this will help others you will have to wait for their input to evaluate that.

I noticed while testing that frigate icons sometimes have 4 small ‘pointers’ at each corner of the icons, these are very faint, if these could be made bright for none hostile and say changed to the same colour as the ‘pointers’ on the landmark icons for hostiles, now that would be excellent. If they could be added to every hostile ship icon (just for colour blind people) that would help a lot.

The biggest thing I did notice while testing was ‘in space clutter’, most of this was caused by myself not having my overview set up correctly (as kindly and politely pointed out in another thread).

It’s not always the overview that is the problem but the Brackets that cause the problem.

To see everything in space we need ‘All Brackets On’ but this gives rise to clutter.

When we select a selection of ships, objects, whatever on the overview and then save that as a ‘Preset’ then only those icons will show in space, OK so far?

However what we don’t have at the moment is an easy way to save a ‘Brackets Preset’ so we can load an overview Preset setting of say ‘Combat’ and a Brackets setting of only XX ships, to highlight only those ships you need to concentrate on at the time.

I know it can be done but it’s a long winded way of doing it and there are so many new icons that selecting the ones you need can be confusing to say the least.
There are often times when you need something to appear on the overview but not ‘in space’ to reduce the clutter.

I don’t know if it would be possible or feasible to add an icon next to each ship (all items?) in the overview selection menu with a tick box to select it, then a ‘Save Brackets Preset’ with a name box etc would be ideal.

That way we would have an easy way of matching an item with an icon if you see what I mean. And it might/would help the learning process.

That’s it, nothing else to say except good luck everyone, no you can’t have my stuff, and I will keep an eye on the forums to see if I might return in the future, Regards BH.

"You wait - time passes, Thorin sits down and starts singing about gold." from The Hobbit on ZX Spectrum 1982.

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#240 - 2015-06-28 20:35:46 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Well, this is a place I never expected us to end up in.

Firstly, Sisi is an improvement, but I find myself sharing experiences with the colour blind users!Shocked
Anything (icon wise) smaller than a cruiser, is simply painful.

I have held class one CAA medicals, I aced RAF eyesight tests for fast Jets (path not followed Doh!) and the only minor eyesight problems I ever had were age related in needing reading glasses.

I am now seriously questioning has my eyesight massively degraded? And why only in EVE?

I have an specialists appointment tomorrow to confirm this once and for all!
(Worth doing for anyone as they age regardless)

IF I get the all clear, EVE will be a part of my history, as no way will I tolerate my vision being messed with because of poor design.

That is all.

Ps all my stuff will be sacrificed to BOB.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE