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Dev blog: Feedback on the new Overview Brackets

First post First post
Author
Ida Aurlien
HIgh Sec Care Bears
Brothers of Tangra
#201 - 2015-06-19 19:42:52 UTC
LOL .You can really see the ccp "Decoy's" on the boards now... they are the ones trying to change the smell of them...
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#202 - 2015-06-19 19:47:32 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Another major issue is no differentiation by weapons systems - the old varying in size icons gave hints straight away what you'd be dealing with.

This would also function in the same manner http://i.imgur.com/RYBmrkG.png / http://i.imgur.com/0XNw6FC.png

Smile

Can't confuse small turret/LM frigates with cruisers here, and of course cruisers can sport RLMLs, so a down triangle can spell both an easy kill & trouble for frigates.

The rhombus = Large turrets/missiles plus Heavy neuts of course.

In an engagement, the information is best read from the left to right - Icon, followed by distance, type & velocity, unless of course the enemy sports a uniform fleet that you have the intel on in advance.

The underlying feature is CONTRAST. Smile
Alexis Nightwish
#203 - 2015-06-19 20:05:00 UTC
Dev Blog wrote:
Add icons to overview customization

We’ve heard the most benefit from the new icons was gained by those with properly managed overview setups. We’re looking to add an icon column to the customization window, to make it super simple to understand which items you want the tab to display and how. This will also double as an in-client legend and visual guide to learning the new icons faster.
Can you please elaborate on this?

CCP approaches problems in one of two ways: nudge or cludge

EVE Online's "I win!" Button

Fixing bombs, not the bombers

Orm Magnustat
Red Serpent Industries
Red Serpent Alliance
#204 - 2015-06-19 20:11:21 UTC
GankYou wrote:

..................................
The whole underlying problem is that they went to do all ze icons at the same time - should've started with player spaceships before touching anything else.

I also have no idea why icons for objects like the planets, moons, the sun, containers and wrecks were changed in the first place.
........................


Thats actually the core of this whole debacle...... If there was a need for it (that i personally never felt or heard of) the old iconset could have been easily polished to give the desired "additonal information" without loosing any of its grown functionality.

But ofc its much cooler (and personally more satisfying) to reinvent the wheel ..... ok, in this case it doesnt roll anymore for some of the vehicles, but anyways the job is much more profound! Lol

Imagine your boss asks you what you have done for the past 6 weeks:
A. " I completed a whole new icon set of 200+ icons, held endless focus groups for it and tons of meetings with the art department! It took us around 300 man hours!"
B. " I added a very little dot in the middle of the otherwise unchanged frigate icon to distinguish destroyers. Took us 15 minutes, including the testing."

Case A gets the coolness points and the promotion for activism.
Case B gets a working solution without any friction with the existing system and playerbase, but no coolness points. Sad


GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#205 - 2015-06-19 20:15:29 UTC
This is a very bad situation indeed, and overview is not the Neocom, which can be ignored most of the time. Smile
Louanne Barros
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#206 - 2015-06-19 20:27:04 UTC
Can we have more than five overview tabs now? Please?

I maintain my own overview pack, and I'm not scared of geometric shapes.
Mara Kell
Herrscher der Zeit
Pandemic Horde
#207 - 2015-06-19 20:44:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Kell
I have kept myself out of the 90 page feedback thread for the icons because i allready learned in the UI discussion that constructive feedback is totally useless when something is planned and set for introduction.

However i feel personally insulted by this devblog.

Do you REALLY think that by better explaining the icons to us they will get more usefull? We (at least me and my corpmates) are not stupid little kids that can be dazzeled by some nice words...

And regarding your finishing sentence:

Quote:
But in New Eden space is merciless, and change is ever-present.


Is it possible that you are mixing the development of your game client and your game content here? The sandbox is not the development of the game client but the game itself... Or do you consider the contact with us, your paying customers some kind of game? After all that would explain some developments in the younger past.

In all seriousness regarding the icon change: If you dont plan on actually involving us players on feature development then please DONT pretend to do so by posting nice devblogs in the test server forum... ok?
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#208 - 2015-06-19 20:53:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Mike Azariah wrote:
(...)

four) yes I am old and squint a lot at the screen, especially when tired. The yellow and white sometimes blur together, the text font always needs to be larger, the damn calculator is almost impossible to read (needs bigger numbers and spacing on each trio of digits so 10 mill is distinctive from 100 mill)

(...)


I'm not old but my eyes are a wreck. I already had issues telling faint yellow from faint gray, and now those isues are same or a bit worst since they've become tiny faint yellow vs tiny faint white. Certainly there is no improvement for me in the new UI, but so far It also hasn't hit my gameplay since asteroids are mostly harmless.

Overall I feel that the new icons are a solution without a problem, whereas some actual UI issues are not fixed and some new have abound.

"Change" is obvious, "improvement" is moot.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you

Shuckstar
Blue Dreams Plus
#209 - 2015-06-19 20:57:24 UTC
Cleanse Serce wrote:
I can't understand how hatefull you are for a simple change of icon set.
Did you lose your brain for you to not be able to adapt and change your habits ?
Seriously guys, this is pathetic.

I'm sad to be part of such a community that just sit on their static quirks. Roll


Dev alt spotted P

CCP Greyscale wrote:"OK, I've read every post up to page 200, and we're getting to a point in this thread where there's not a lot of new concerns or suggestions being brought up. There will be future threads (and future blogs) as we tune details, but for now I want to thank you for all of your constructive input, and wish you a good weekend :)"

Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
#210 - 2015-06-19 22:09:01 UTC
Shuckstar wrote:
Cleanse Serce wrote:
I can't understand how hatefull you are for a simple change of icon set.
Did you lose your brain for you to not be able to adapt and change your habits ?
Seriously guys, this is pathetic.

I'm sad to be part of such a community that just sit on their static quirks. Roll


Dev alt spotted P


I wish i were.
Teacher Oumis
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#211 - 2015-06-19 22:09:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Teacher Oumis
Having taken time with the new icons, I still have to stand on the side of the people that would like a legacy option for the old icons or perhaps a customizable overview.

I used to be able to tell out the corner of my eye if another ship landed on grid without even looking directly at the overview. There's no hope of that now. And God forbid you have a ship warp in when there's npc wrecks on overview or even on the main screen. They just disappear into a sea of triangles.

I have to be honest and say I wasn't happy with the new map, especially while scanning, but I had an option to disable that so it was fine. The new icons there's no such option, so I'm finding myself enjoying the game less and logging in less.

To echo some of the other user replies, I did also find the tone of the dev-blog mildly condescending. The usability of your interface is another kettle of fish entirely and shouldn't be drawn into the harsh-space reality of your sandbox.
Rat Scout
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#212 - 2015-06-20 07:35:35 UTC
I am not sure why some of the icons are what they are. I get it, people want to work and update pixels, fine. But I wish there was some better logic to ship progression. It would have been really helpful to allow us to use colors to fill in the icons in the overview, not the background, but the actual icons only.
I don't want to nit pick on icons that are irrelevant to combat, but I would like to see the ship icons improve a bit. The ISIS sample that was featured a long time ago in a dev blog had much better icon progression, the bigger the ship, the more complex the icon.
And to be even more constructive, I even spent a few minutes in illustrator to draw something up that I would find easy to work with.
The current simple carrier icon is almost the same as the POCO icon, on small screens with low graphics this could be difficult to work with/ get used to.

http://imgur.com/lMAkjjX

The solution that I would like to see the most is to allow us to use custom colors on each icon that represents a ship type. If that was available, I could care less what shape the icon is, my color coded overview would tell me what I need to know. (ps: sorting by color should also be implemented to make it even more awesome)
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
#213 - 2015-06-20 08:31:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Cleanse Serce
Rat Scout wrote:
http://imgur.com/lMAkjjX

The solution that I would like to see the most is to allow us to use custom colors on each icon that represents a ship type. If that was available, I could care less what shape the icon is, my color coded overview would tell me what I need to know. (ps: sorting by color should also be implemented to make it even more awesome)


http://i.imgur.com/Ljd4GAM.png

I'm afraid with color it's even worst.
If they but color options, it's got to be very carefully studied cause it could completly make the ship icones useless
(some exermple in the link bottom left corner)
Rat Scout
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#214 - 2015-06-20 08:54:53 UTC
@Cleanse

Your idea of color coding ships is not what I was talking about.

Frigs would be ...- pink .....
Destroyers - orange
Cruisers - navy

etc

corp/alliance/fleet I do not need to see in my overview, everything else is something I can shoot at.

If I am logi, I don't need to see the enemy in overview.
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
#215 - 2015-06-20 09:16:45 UTC
Rat Scout wrote:
@Cleanse

Your idea of color coding ships is not what I was talking about.

Frigs would be ...- pink .....
Destroyers - orange
Cruisers - navy

etc

corp/alliance/fleet I do not need to see in my overview, everything else is something I can shoot at.

If I am logi, I don't need to see the enemy in overview.


wether its for alliance/corp or ship class, it is still colors that we're talkin about right ? Roll
Mag's
Azn Empire
#216 - 2015-06-20 09:20:31 UTC
CCP never seem to learn from the past. Same mistake, different situation.

I long ago gave up bothering, as pride always seems to get in the way of great change.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Rat Scout
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#217 - 2015-06-20 09:36:33 UTC
Cleanse Serce wrote:
Rat Scout wrote:
@Cleanse

Your idea of color coding ships is not what I was talking about.

Frigs would be ...- pink .....
Destroyers - orange
Cruisers - navy

etc

corp/alliance/fleet I do not need to see in my overview, everything else is something I can shoot at.

If I am logi, I don't need to see the enemy in overview.


wether its for alliance/corp or ship class, it is still colors that we're talkin about right ? Roll


Or potatoes, maybe call me? As if it matters what you and me are talking about.
Drammie Askold
Hideaway Hunters
The Hideaway.
#218 - 2015-06-20 10:19:59 UTC
May I suggest that ccp update the icon for 'capsuleers in local' on the local window to the new icon, to avoid confusion.

As the blessed St. Reptilicus said "Some days you can't get a drink on the cuff anyplace."

Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes
#219 - 2015-06-20 14:08:26 UTC
Mag's wrote:
CCP never seem to learn from the past. Same mistake, different situation.

I long ago gave up bothering, as pride always seems to get in the way of great change.

I think the New lead game designer last year, and the new lead art director, a few days ago, explains this.
New leads, want to put their mark on the game.
Didnt learn from Incarna because it was not THEIR asses on the line that time.

Now the new people think.. "hmm, where should I make my mark... hey, some UI elements haven't been changed much in the last ten years, Lets plant that down as my personal flag"

That in my opnion also explains CCP's stubbornness with this, and their attitute to the feedback.
It's not about improvements, it's just about pride..
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#220 - 2015-06-20 14:38:13 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Rat Scout wrote:


Even this example has too much information & similarity for combat between 4 classes of ships that all use different-sized weapons systems. The carrier one I like, if it gets differentiated by size like the old icons, but it might as well could be a rhombus or a pentagon.

Not quite sure why people stop counting at three angles. There's a threshold of redundancy, especially in PvP combat, when additional information becomes noise and is discarded - an extra angle on a geometric figure is easier to read than some minuscule chevron, or a dash on the same triangle-house across all major sub-capital spaceship classes.

The chosen concept is at fault here - wrecks competing with PvP spaceships for the best icon concepts. Smile