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Dev blog: Feedback on the new Overview Brackets

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Steijn
Quay Industries
#161 - 2015-06-19 10:43:45 UTC
CCP Phantom wrote:
With the Carnyx release on June 2nd we got a set of competely new icons in space and in the overview. Such a large change naturally has raised the attention of many players and we have received a lot of feedback raising questions and pointing to some issues (for example with UI scaling and difficulties differentiating between NPCs and players).

Please read the blog Feedback on the new Overview Brackets by CCP Surge to learn more about the design and goals behind those new icons and the road ahead!

As always, your constructive feedback is most welcome and helpful. Thank you!


Whats the ETA for these changes? I dont mean in exact terms, but are we talking 1 week? 2 weeks? 1 month? 2 months? Xmas?
Steijn
Quay Industries
#162 - 2015-06-19 10:47:15 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
oh one phrase did make me laugh. The idea that the art department or devs might be bored and need to be given 'make work' tasks.


Plenty of firms 'generate' work for idle hands if they know those hands will be needed in the short term future. Im not saying thats whats happened, but you would be a fool to believe that it doesnt occur in business.
Cleanse Serce
Lonesome Capsuleer
#163 - 2015-06-19 10:54:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Cleanse Serce
Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:
Finally, some response to a CSM Member, too little too late, where were you on the Sisi Feedback Tread, the General Feedback threadnaught?



If 100 pages of Feedback for Carnyx is a Threadnaught, i'm wondering how you would qualify a 400 pages long thread for jump fatigue changes ?

Oh let me guess, that's just relative to players that had quit Eve because of said jump fatigue changes ?
I see.
I see.
Rasta Wullie
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#164 - 2015-06-19 11:38:33 UTC
I hate it , worst idea yet
Lucas Quaan
Descendance.
GoonSwarm.
#165 - 2015-06-19 11:42:59 UTC
With the other icons becoming more complex too, wrecks and drones are way to cluttered at the moment. Please tone them down and make them easier to separate from ships.
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
Verge of Collapse
#166 - 2015-06-19 11:44:51 UTC
I havent adapted to it yet and probably never will, Im not sure who you asked that adapted to this change, it certainly was nobody I play with.
My biggest complaint is that all brackets have the same size now, from light drone through pod to battleahip, making it incredibly difficult to distinguish ships from drones.

RATE LIKE SUBSCRIBE
MaverickScot
Diminishing Returns.
#167 - 2015-06-19 12:00:28 UTC
Having read BRACKET ICON MADNESS - FEEDBACK ON THE NEW OVERVIEW BRACKETS" I do not
see anything relating to feed back about having an option go roll back. There is plenty about new icons and changes to the future icons to improve them but a lot of feed back I read was negative and related to having the option of old or new. Do you intend to offer feed back to those people too? Even a simple we are not going back would do.

I still don't like the new icons.

Mav.
Steijn
Quay Industries
#168 - 2015-06-19 12:04:24 UTC
MaverickScot wrote:
Having read BRACKET ICON MADNESS - FEEDBACK ON THE NEW OVERVIEW BRACKETS" I do not
see anything relating to feed back about having an option go roll back. There is plenty about new icons and changes to the future icons to improve them but a lot of feed back I read was negative and related to having the option of old or new. Do you intend to offer feed back to those people too? Even a simple we are not going back would do.

I still don't like the new icons.

Mav.



CCP Claymore wrote:
Quote:

are you going to reinstate the old icons, even if only as a temporary measure?


The simple answer at the moment is no.

Without going into too much detail as the blog will cover it, we have ideas to simplify the current system from the feedback on this thread and discussions from the CSM.


i asked in the issues thread and got the above in reply.
Eraza
Fuzzyness Enterprizes
#169 - 2015-06-19 13:00:27 UTC
Jeven HouseBenyo wrote:
Looks like four accounts of stuff get to collect virtual dust in stations.

Finally, some response to a CSM Member, too little too late, where were you on the Sisi Feedback Tread, the General Feedback threadnaught?

If you have such amazing computer graphic artists in your stable, CCP, why was our 'Frag off!' crying guy so graphically inept? At least insult your player base in 1080p slick and shiny.

Gonna miss a bunch of people that have become buddies over the last year & 2 months. I won't stay to play any game that causes physical pain from a graphic change that also comes with no check box to use old set until new might pass the view test. And I certainly won't toss money into the budget of a company who's customer service and interaction reads like that blog.

Fly safe.

>Jeven


Have seen a lot of people mess this up, dont lose friends just because you quit.
Get your ingame friends msn/skype/steam/email or whatever.
You will be surprised how many are up for playing other games, if they have already played one with you :)
Sophia Mileghere
Scandium Defense and Security Inc.
Sleeper Protocol
#170 - 2015-06-19 13:25:48 UTC
Here was a very good idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=427590&p=93

Red Deck wrote:
Just an idea...

CCP, if you are really interested in knowing what people think about the new icons and how strongly they feel about the issue, why don't you create a poll and link it prominently from the launcher? I recall participating in a poll on new features in EVE published by CCP before...

Trust me when I say there is a lot more pissed people than you can see in this (already monumental) thread...

The poll might be super simple like

Choose one from:
A) Love the new icons, keep the old ones buried.
B) Mixed bag, no strong feelings either way.
C) The new icons don't work for me, roll the whole thing back.

and as an extra yes/no question:
D) Make using the old icons an option.

This should provide you with data enough to possibly reconsider your current course of action (or a solid justification to tell all of us in this thread very plainly to shut the **** up because we are clearly just an insignificant, even if vocal minority).


So that can be simply ascertained what the customers want, CCP should really put up the idea with the survey.
So a survey gets itself relatively fast. If CCP did this, they would save all one amount of time and frustration.
Of course they would have to put the survey fairly and neutrally and they should publish the result.
Finally, CCP must implement the results only in the game.

CCP, a question I would still have. Because CSM does not speak to us:
What exactly has said the CSM to the Icons?
Miniemoo
Perkone
Caldari State
#171 - 2015-06-19 13:26:50 UTC
It seems that the people that are happy with the changes are the players that it does not effect.

I Dont hate the changes just feel they need to be significantly improved, lost a few ships because i though they was Wrecks.
Becoming even more significant in larger fighter.

when people call ship types to blap. ( constantly ripping through overview tabs during big fights, still as buggy as hell )
DexterShark
Trask Industries
#172 - 2015-06-19 13:27:57 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:


oh one phrase did make me laugh. The idea that the art department or devs might be bored and need to be given 'make work' tasks.

honestly, I will be timing the telling of that to when some devs are sipping beers because I am evil and love watching people try to keep ale from coming out of their noses.

m



Nice to see a CSM finally say something about these icons.

The point you are missing in your rush to make your dev-chummy reply, is that there absolutely are so many things that need work on design and UI in Eve - the industry UI was wonderful, for example, and great work is being done, for sure.

But this icon overhaul was a feature no one asked for. It solved a dev-perceived problem that no actual players had. The implementation is well below the high standards that we have come to expect from CCP recently, and needless work is now continuing to be put into iterating a design that has made this core part of the game worse than it was before.

Hence the feeling (which I agree with) that "they are just doing needless work for the sake of it" on this feature.

It is just not a good design, it hasn't worked and the UI design team need to acknowledge that, revert it, and move on to other pressing projects that do need their attention.
Dino Zavr
Shadow Owls
#173 - 2015-06-19 13:31:45 UTC
Dear CCP,

Please, stop antagonizing your players. This is highly immature.
The criticism that your stated goals to unify icons and make them more convenient to use were not reached is objective and constructive. Players do not wain for no reason.

If your favorites shop all of a sudden start selling low quality items you would find another one, if your ISP get laggy and faulty you would search fore replacement, if any service you have got used to goes bad you would, most likely, look for an alternative. So it is no surprise there are many desperate voices to unsubscribe now. I guess you have analyzed the current situation and pretty much ready to sacrifice like ~10% or more of your active subscribers. Well, what for?

Whatever the big plans are to make it impossible to recognize player and NPC ships (like players joining Amarr Fleet against drifters), do you think you have taken a wise desicion? Offending your fair players just for a bunch of pixels. That's lame.

Replacing sprites does not require rewriting of code. Please, make choosing between both (old and new icon sets) an option. It is not that complex.

Also, I'd like to see jump animation optional (just like a camera shake) and return of a jukebox.

Please, start a massive poll about new overview icons to begin to listen to our suggestions and to estimate the scale of this issue, restore the old set as an option and then refining the new 'beta' set will be smooth as it was to be from the very start.

I still hope to see the mature reaction from the prominent company rather than insulting advise to accept the changes of a controversial quality or just leave. This issue can be fixed without escalating the conflict, only patience and wisdom required.

Thanks.
Merior
Ouroboros Solutions
Recursive Horizons
#174 - 2015-06-19 13:39:56 UTC

CCP Claymore wrote:
Quote:

are you going to reinstate the old icons, even if only as a temporary measure?


The simple answer at the moment is no.

Without going into too much detail as the blog will cover it, we have ideas to simplify the current system from the feedback on this thread and discussions from the CSM.


i asked in the issues thread and got the above in reply.[/quote]


Giving myself time to get used to the new "brackets" is all very well but how can you be expected to memorise images when it is virtually impossible to distinguish between them even on a decent 23 inch screen?

If you insist on sticking with this set of brackets then at least give us the option of using a clearer simplified set that doesn't provide us with an overload of information when we are in stress mode.

My accounts are due for renewal soon. I hope that you have solved these issues by then.
Freelancer117
So you want to be a Hero
#175 - 2015-06-19 13:45:54 UTC
PAPULA wrote:
Cleanse Serce wrote:

CCP won't go back, deal with it.

Then i will not come back to game anymore, deal with it, and no you can't have my stuff, let it dust in stations.


Agreed, lately CCP made a change in it's behaviour towards it's paying customers, and this is big set back.

IF CCP would tell us the whole truth and say that this is needed to fight botting and perhaps rmt then it would be understandable, to "fix" something that is totally not broken.
However with the lack of any information about banning accounts plus how quietly they handled the iwantisk situation I have to concluded this is just some stupid anti consumer idea again from the upper echelon management.

The interbusship identification system needs more Pssssssshhh so let's redo the icons in the same way, reading between the lines here:

Quote:
Unifying the iconography with the ship tree in ISIS.
This one was aimed primarily at newer players who are familiar with the Interbus Ship Identification System (ISIS) for learning the vast number of ships it is possible to fly and encounter. Thus having the in-space brackets of the ships they encounter match the ISIS tree was an important connection to make. Initially our plan was to migrate the old ISIS icons into the brackets, but our testing and feedback showed us they were simply not designed to be usable at the small bracket scale. So we made a completely new set that could be used at both scales and simply ported it over to ISIS.


The new player experience should be left to those that understand new bro's...... gamers and /or the CSM Cool

Regards, a Freelancer

PS: see previous post about new player experience
source: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5830022#post5830022

Eve online is :

A) mining simulator B) glorified chatroom C) spreadsheets online

D) CCP Games Pay to Win at skill leveling, with instant gratification

http://eve-radio.com//images/photos/3419/223/34afa0d7998f0a9a86f737d6.jpg

http://bit.ly/1egr4mF
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#176 - 2015-06-19 13:49:58 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
I havent adapted to it yet and probably never will, Im not sure who you asked that adapted to this change, it certainly was nobody I play with.
My biggest complaint is that all brackets have the same size now, from light drone through pod to battleahip, making it incredibly difficult to distinguish ships from drones.


I feels you. Smile

This puts a lid on returning to spaceship PvP for me - the combat situation awareness is horrendous with those chevrons flying around.

Remember, two minutes in Paint - http://i.imgur.com/RYBmrkG.png

EVE has so much information overload, even though it is a relatively low Actions Per Minute game - some things need to be more than straightforward, and overview is one of them.

Sophia Mileghere wrote:
Here was a very good idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=427590&p=93

Red Deck wrote:
Just an idea...

CCP, if you are really interested in knowing what people think about the new icons and how strongly they feel about the issue, why don't you create a poll and link it prominently from the launcher? I recall participating in a poll on new features in EVE published by CCP before...

Trust me when I say there is a lot more pissed people than you can see in this (already monumental) thread...

The poll might be super simple like

Choose one from:
A) Love the new icons, keep the old ones buried.
B) Mixed bag, no strong feelings either way.
C) The new icons don't work for me, roll the whole thing back.

and as an extra yes/no question:
D) Make using the old icons an option.

This should provide you with data enough to possibly reconsider your current course of action (or a solid justification to tell all of us in this thread very plainly to shut the **** up because we are clearly just an insignificant, even if vocal minority).


So that can be simply ascertained what the customers want, CCP should really put up the idea with the survey.
So a survey gets itself relatively fast. If CCP did this, they would save all one amount of time and frustration.
Of course they would have to put the survey fairly and neutrally and they should publish the result.
Finally, CCP must implement the results only in the game.

CCP, a question I would still have. Because CSM does not speak to us:
What exactly has said the CSM to the Icons?


This is one of the best ideas, in like forever.

Poll data would still stay internal. Smile

...And they all crave one thing - ISK. ¤

[WTS] ME10 / TE20 BPOs from Battleships/Cruisers to Fighters, Carriers, Triage/Siege, XL modules & Cap Components
Jessica Serrato
Serrato Collective
#177 - 2015-06-19 13:50:08 UTC
Well, 2 account cancelled.....wonder if they going to get the point. I cited the development blog and CCP Surge as the reason. I might come back if changes are made and CCP Surge offers an apology for that post, maybe.
Builder AlphaOne
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#178 - 2015-06-19 14:17:56 UTC
far too many icons are all the same color [white] and, with their thin wire frames and small size, too difficult to distinguish from each other.

overview hasn't enough tabs to really help with this ... can't always afford to dedicate a tab entirely to drones [for example] and yet killing those opponent sentry drones is a critical task. -- can't have multiple overview tabs open at once [handy as that would be even if it would make the check box in the dscanner a problem] -- and there's just not enough room on the screen even if you could have two open at once.
Leah Agenon
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#179 - 2015-06-19 14:26:49 UTC
to me that new bracket is good progress, however what about giving the ability to chose a color to in the overview for a specific class of entities? I think that the key missing element to really met the objective of improved situational awareness.

The simple ability to click on an entity and choose from the color palette. I could make all drones yellow or cruisers orange, could be higher level too, like all ships green and structures blue. this in addition the to tags and background currently.

Food for thought, sorry if some posted this approach didn't do an exhaustive search on the forums before posting. Idea

cheers guys.
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#180 - 2015-06-19 14:30:55 UTC
Colour-coding for everything on the overview would be best, but that further emphasizes the issue of the likeness of all of the chevron icons.

...And they all crave one thing - ISK. ¤

[WTS] ME10 / TE20 BPOs from Battleships/Cruisers to Fighters, Carriers, Triage/Siege, XL modules & Cap Components