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where is the BATTLE in battleship?
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Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2015-06-13 22:35:13 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Atomeon wrote:
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
You're of course right, cause 1150 dps at 53 km optimal with Conflag in my Paladin is of course not good enough...


He talks about Empire battleships T1 (Not Faction or Marauders)


Hyperion gets 1600 dps with a t2 fit.


Please share this fit? That's higher than a standard vindi.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#22 - 2015-06-13 23:37:18 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:

baltec1 wrote:

Hyperion gets 1600 dps with a t2 fit.


Please share this fit? That's higher than a standard vindi.

It's a "standard" shield-fit Hyperion.

Neutron Blasters, 3x MagStabs, 5x Heavy Drones. Play around with the rest of the fit.

The reason you would choose a shield Hyperion over a Vindi is because it is...
- cheaper
- mostly insurable
- more capacitor power

If using the same fit, the Vindi...
- does slightly more DPS (~200 more dps),
- has slightly more tank (~20k more ehp),
- is slightly faster (~100 m/sec faster with the MWD),
- has a tracking bonus,
- has that VERY sexy 90% web bonus,
- has better agility.


edit: interestingly... a Hyperion using an armor-fit similar to a Vindicator has roughly the same stat difference as the shield fit (except the Hype beats the Vindi in buffer tank ehp).

How did you Veterans start?
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2015-06-14 19:27:22 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:

baltec1 wrote:

Hyperion gets 1600 dps with a t2 fit.


Please share this fit? That's higher than a standard vindi.

It's a "standard" shield-fit Hyperion.

Neutron Blasters, 3x MagStabs, 5x Heavy Drones. Play around with the rest of the fit.

The reason you would choose a shield Hyperion over a Vindi is because it is...
- cheaper
- mostly insurable
- more capacitor power

If using the same fit, the Vindi...
- does slightly more DPS (~200 more dps),
- has slightly more tank (~20k more ehp),
- is slightly faster (~100 m/sec faster with the MWD),
- has a tracking bonus,
- has that VERY sexy 90% web bonus,
- has better agility.


edit: interestingly... a Hyperion using an armor-fit similar to a Vindicator has roughly the same stat difference as the shield fit (except the Hype beats the Vindi in buffer tank ehp).


Do you need a damage rig? What kind of tank do you run? How many LSE/invulns and then I assume extender rigs.
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2015-06-15 06:15:01 UTC
Battleships have their place and are good at those things. No, solo PvP is not one of them. Being fast is similarly not one of them.

Keep in mind that CCP hasn't "revamped" the Battleships yet. I'm sure they will get to them soonish. So lets hold off on making comparisons.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2015-06-15 09:06:10 UTC
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
Keep in mind that CCP hasn't "revamped" the Battleships yet.

What do you mean? Is there "second tiericide" going on or something?
Yes, I was away for a while...

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#26 - 2015-06-16 11:20:15 UTC
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
Battleships have their place and are good at those things. No, solo PvP is not one of them. Being fast is similarly not one of them.

Keep in mind that CCP hasn't "revamped" the Battleships yet. I'm sure they will get to them soonish. So lets hold off on making comparisons.



In what eve universe do you play? The geddon used to be magnificent laserboat of sentry doom. Now it's some crappy oversized curse. If that wasn't some form of 'cide' I don't know what is.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#27 - 2015-06-16 11:24:30 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
You know I've never even thought about it until now, but why is it that frigate sized ships warp faster than BS sized space ships?

Is there some physics reason?

Nope. Gameplay reasons.

The long and short of it is that battleships are VERY good at the more "boring" aspects of the game (structure grinding, SOV, "holding/gaining territory") and not so good for the most common and non-committal aspects of the game (roaming and finding fights). Smaller ships are the opposite.

Plus there is a huge aversion to committing to an engagement in a game where your target may have more "friends" than you do... which means that mobility and speed will generally be king in all but the most extreme and organized engagements.


All that said though... a fleet of 20 non-min/maxed battleships with 4 logistics ships is effectively a "bulldozer" that will crush most equivalent-sized compositions of any other sub-capital (that they can catch).



Well fist - thanks for explaining eve to me. Apparently I've been using BS incorrectly for about a decade.

Second I'm more interested in the upside down locking mechanics. Why does a massive ship w/ zillions of CPU, football fields of 'physical space' and the power grid to melt a city have some crappy fire control system that takes forever to lock anything?
Frank Armour
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2015-06-16 13:23:35 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
You know I've never even thought about it until now, but why is it that frigate sized ships warp faster than BS sized space ships?

Is there some physics reason?

Nope. Gameplay reasons.

The long and short of it is that battleships are VERY good at the more "boring" aspects of the game (structure grinding, SOV, "holding/gaining territory") and not so good for the most common and non-committal aspects of the game (roaming and finding fights). Smaller ships are the opposite.

Plus there is a huge aversion to committing to an engagement in a game where your target may have more "friends" than you do... which means that mobility and speed will generally be king in all but the most extreme and organized engagements.


All that said though... a fleet of 20 non-min/maxed battleships with 4 logistics ships is effectively a "bulldozer" that will crush most equivalent-sized compositions of any other sub-capital (that they can catch).



Well fist - thanks for explaining eve to me. Apparently I've been using BS incorrectly for about a decade.

Second I'm more interested in the upside down locking mechanics. Why does a massive ship w/ zillions of CPU, football fields of 'physical space' and the power grid to melt a city have some crappy fire control system that takes forever to lock anything?


I concur with you on that one. I think Lock Time should be distance related instead of size! You can Lock another battleship 150km away from ya faster than a frig 5k from you! Does'nt sound right to me. Plus, it aint like it would change the tracking unable to hit a small target. just my 2cents.
TinkerHell
Nocturnal Romance
Cynosural Field Theory.
#29 - 2015-06-17 12:32:36 UTC
I would like CCP to show a graph like they did at fanfest with the damage done in pvp per ship type but to split the Battleships into pirate/navy and standard. I think the damage done by standard BS would be nearly non existent to be honest...

I cant remember the last time i have seen a BS gang that had standard BS in it, or seen a standard BS roaming around that wasnt flown by a newb, fitted like a joke and quickly ganked.

RIP Battleships.
Ortilus Orsides
Doomheim
#30 - 2015-06-17 13:59:46 UTC
BSs are isk makers, mostly use for PVE, rattling, and anomalies. If you use them for anything else you're just asking for a blobbing.
Ortilus Orsides
Doomheim
#31 - 2015-06-17 14:05:20 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
Battleships have their place and are good at those things. No, solo PvP is not one of them. Being fast is similarly not one of them.

Keep in mind that CCP hasn't "revamped" the Battleships yet. I'm sure they will get to them soonish. So lets hold off on making comparisons.



In what eve universe do you play? The geddon used to be magnificent laserboat of sentry doom. Now it's some crappy oversized curse. If that wasn't some form of 'cide' I don't know what is.


LOL
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#32 - 2015-06-17 14:40:45 UTC
Ortilus Orsides wrote:
BSs are isk makers, mostly use for PVE, rattling, and anomalies. If you use them for anything else you're just asking for a blobbing.


To the risk adverse maybe. I like fighting blobs (depending on the situation of course) as they are generally overconfident and make lots of mistakes (approach! Hug that BS with your huginn). I roam with BS fairly often and have about the same to better success rate as roamin with other ships. The nice thing is it opens my options on who i can fight. Until i get hot dropped (lol). **** happens though, i still killed triple what my BS is worth in most cases. I fly real solo, no links, no alts, no scouts. I just know my roaming areas well and have safes everywhere.

Plus for t1 BS, insurance pretty much covers the cost of the ship. You just pay for the fittings. Pretty sure my phoon only costs me about 50-70m in total.

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
Tusker Crazinski
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2015-06-17 15:15:12 UTC
its just some of the battleships, namely the gun boats.

2 of the long range turrets are virtually un-fittable, a lot of their bonuses are bad or make no sense. I'm looking at you Hype, Pest, and Mael

the dominix is probably the best ship in the game, mostly because of how stupidly OP drones are right now

the phoon and raven are fine, missiles need not track.

and the geddon is a nuet sniper, possibly one of the most overall useful battleships in the game.
Ortilus Orsides
Doomheim
#34 - 2015-06-19 02:07:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Ortilus Orsides
Stitch Kaneland wrote:
Ortilus Orsides wrote:
BSs are isk makers, mostly use for PVE, rattling, and anomalies. If you use them for anything else you're just asking for a blobbing.


To the risk adverse maybe. I like fighting blobs (depending on the situation of course) as they are generally overconfident and make lots of mistakes (approach! Hug that BS with your huginn). I roam with BS fairly often and have about the same to better success rate as roamin with other ships. The nice thing is it opens my options on who i can fight. Until i get hot dropped (lol). **** happens though, i still killed triple what my BS is worth in most cases. I fly real solo, no links, no alts, no scouts. I just know my roaming areas well and have safes everywhere.

Plus for t1 BS, insurance pretty much covers the cost of the ship. You just pay for the fittings. Pretty sure my phoon only costs me about 50-70m in total.


Ahh yes, forgot about the Phoon. With RHML and a utility high for a heavy neut, I'd say the Phoon is the best solo PVP T1 BS in the game right now. The Geddon and Bhaalgorn are more dangerous, but are mostly used in as gang supporters instead of solo.

I didn't realize the insurance payout for T1 BSs was that good. I retract my statement, I now see no reason NOT to use them for pvp when the risk to lose them is this low, especially if the pilot knows what he's doing.

Heh, Mr. Kaneland you're the exact opposite of that whimpy Arch Troller who posted that "Do not train to fly Battleships" thread. Maybe you should loan him some of your expertise on the subject.
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#35 - 2015-06-19 02:24:49 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:



The geddon used to be magnificent laserboat of sentry doom. Now it's some crappy oversized curse. If that wasn't some form of 'cide' I don't know what is.


I just wanted to repost this and give you a +1 for the reminder.
I haven't undocked a T1 Geddon since the change.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#36 - 2015-06-19 04:01:24 UTC
Your dialect is amazing.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Traejun DiSanctis
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#37 - 2015-06-19 05:36:28 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
Battleships have their place and are good at those things. No, solo PvP is not one of them. Being fast is similarly not one of them.

Keep in mind that CCP hasn't "revamped" the Battleships yet. I'm sure they will get to them soonish. So lets hold off on making comparisons.



In what eve universe do you play? The geddon used to be magnificent laserboat of sentry doom. Now it's some crappy oversized curse. If that wasn't some form of 'cide' I don't know what is.


Wait, wait... let me get this straight... your OP 'geddon of death isn't as faceroll as it used to be and you're now here crying about all Battleships sucking? K... thought so.

Go write about it in your diary, cupcake. I'll be busy using my battleship to do stuff.
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#38 - 2015-06-22 13:40:33 UTC
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
Battleships have their place and are good at those things. No, solo PvP is not one of them. Being fast is similarly not one of them.

Keep in mind that CCP hasn't "revamped" the Battleships yet. I'm sure they will get to them soonish. So lets hold off on making comparisons.



In what eve universe do you play? The geddon used to be magnificent laserboat of sentry doom. Now it's some crappy oversized curse. If that wasn't some form of 'cide' I don't know what is.


Wait, wait... let me get this straight... your OP 'geddon of death isn't as faceroll as it used to be and you're now here crying about all Battleships sucking? K... thought so.

Go write about it in your diary, cupcake. I'll be busy using my battleship to do stuff.



Just to be clear I love BS and I think their fine as is (though I personally thought what they did to the geddon was stupid).

Speaking of stupid... you either own it or embody it. I can't tell which. There are many of us who loved the classic geddon before it got turned into a neutmobile. It's kind of like when they took the waterbed / shag carpet laden custom vans of the 60s and 70s and turned them into the baby toting mini vans of today. Guys who are about down and dirty miss the custom vans and metrosexuals think the mini van is the cats meow. Neither of us are wrong. We just don't agree.

TL/DR lighten the fook up francis
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#39 - 2015-06-22 14:24:41 UTC
RavenPaine wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:



The geddon used to be magnificent laserboat of sentry doom. Now it's some crappy oversized curse. If that wasn't some form of 'cide' I don't know what is.


I just wanted to repost this and give you a +1 for the reminder.
I haven't undocked a T1 Geddon since the change.



Geddon is a beast, in about any configuration. Dominix only beats it for pve and assist-blobfests. (And as a moonwalk domi since it has more drone range and more stabs than a Nexor)
Valkin Mordirc
#40 - 2015-06-22 14:27:10 UTC
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:
Traejun DiSanctis wrote:
Battleships have their place and are good at those things. No, solo PvP is not one of them. Being fast is similarly not one of them.

Keep in mind that CCP hasn't "revamped" the Battleships yet. I'm sure they will get to them soonish. So lets hold off on making comparisons.



In what eve universe do you play? The geddon used to be magnificent laserboat of sentry doom. Now it's some crappy oversized curse. If that wasn't some form of 'cide' I don't know what is.


Wait, wait... let me get this straight... your OP 'geddon of death isn't as faceroll as it used to be and you're now here crying about all Battleships sucking? K... thought so.

Go write about it in your diary, cupcake. I'll be busy using my battleship to do stuff.



Geddons weren't OP. They were good but not OP. The Sentry nerf lowered them a notch.

#DeleteTheWeak
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