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What makes one Matari?

Author
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#121 - 2015-05-22 19:49:15 UTC
Liam Antolliere wrote:
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Jade Blackwind wrote:
It's about time the Republic got its own Nauplius/Kim.
I suppose this just leaves the Gallente with an extremist slot open here....



Oh, we've extremists aplenty....

None so vocal or single minded as the aforementioned examples. At least, none that I have seen.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.

Sayuri Fumimasa
Doomheim
#122 - 2015-05-22 21:38:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Sayuri Fumimasa
ValentinaDLM wrote:


The issue is, that culturally I want to identify with my people, that is the Brutor Tribe. Politically, the Brutor Tribe has indeed sided with the Republic, rather than taking the more reasonable path of the Thukker Tribe, and swearing off CONCORD. There are Brutor in the Federation, and in the Cartel in large numbers, and many of them still maintain their tribal traditions and ceremonies. I don't have to be waving the flag of the Republic in order to practice any particular culture.

If a concerted effort is made, and the Republic can be made into a place that is worthy of defending and sacrificing for, then I might change my mind; but in the state it is iin now, the Valklears would have to kill a significant portion of the Matari people, since they don't live in the Republic, and aren't helping it. If people in the service of the Republic really want to do something worthwhile, focus on the infrastructure, industry and defence of the Republic not "opportunities for vengeance".


This will never happen if people like yourself don't make it happen, you can wait an eternity for this but there are countless people waiting for this moment to occur.Will you actually stand up and bring this change in our people? Will you make it happen? Or will you let them continue to wait, like you've consigned yourself to doing? We are the epitomy of what our people can be, is there any other answer?
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#123 - 2015-05-22 22:05:13 UTC
ValentinaDLM wrote:
rather than taking the more reasonable path of the Thukker Tribe


Well... the Thukker Tribe was the one fielding their military at the side of the Elders when they attacked...
ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#124 - 2015-05-23 03:55:41 UTC
Sayuri Fumimasa wrote:
ValentinaDLM wrote:


The issue is, that culturally I want to identify with my people, that is the Brutor Tribe. Politically, the Brutor Tribe has indeed sided with the Republic, rather than taking the more reasonable path of the Thukker Tribe, and swearing off CONCORD. There are Brutor in the Federation, and in the Cartel in large numbers, and many of them still maintain their tribal traditions and ceremonies. I don't have to be waving the flag of the Republic in order to practice any particular culture.

If a concerted effort is made, and the Republic can be made into a place that is worthy of defending and sacrificing for, then I might change my mind; but in the state it is iin now, the Valklears would have to kill a significant portion of the Matari people, since they don't live in the Republic, and aren't helping it. If people in the service of the Republic really want to do something worthwhile, focus on the infrastructure, industry and defence of the Republic not "opportunities for vengeance".


This will never happen if people like yourself don't make it happen, you can wait an eternity for this but there are countless people waiting for this moment to occur.Will you actually stand up and bring this change in our people? Will you make it happen? Or will you let them continue to wait, like you've consigned yourself to doing? We are the epitomy of what our people can be, is there any other answer?


I will do my best, but there are two issues, the first is that the Republic might be too damaged at it's core to be saved, and it might need to be totally reworked in order to be viable. I hope it isn't, I hope that corruption and disharmony that is in the system can be cut out without destroying the whole thing and having to rebuild from scratch.

The second issue is, I might be a capsuleer, and I do have a certain understanding of industry and markets; and I could potentially have a place as someone who brings our people up. I don't exactly think that people would follow me. I am only half Brutor, I am also half Nefantar, and I am returning to my people, I was born Ammatar.

Even if one were to ignore the crimes I have committed against the Republic in the Service of the Nation, or in the service to the Ammatar, then I would still have to actually have the charisma to be an effective leader and role model for my people. I have my hands in the market, in the Republic, and hopefully my investments of isk and time will be helpful to the people of the Republic.

So this is why I focus on my people in a generalized sense and try not to worry so much about nationality.

For what it is worth, if you or anyone else knows something that I can do to help my people or something that I can do that doesn't harm another faction that I can do that makes life better for the people in the Republic let me know.


Lyn Farel wrote:
ValentinaDLM wrote:
rather than taking the more reasonable path of the Thukker Tribe


Well... the Thukker Tribe was the one fielding their military at the side of the Elders when they attacked...


I am on record, saying that the Elder fleet was an understandable, justifiable, and necessary event, that hasn't changed. I think the Thukker Tribe as a government has been much more reasonable than the republic for the most part.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#125 - 2015-05-23 07:47:41 UTC
ValentinaDLM wrote:
Sayuri Fumimasa wrote:
ValentinaDLM wrote:


The issue is, that culturally I want to identify with my people, that is the Brutor Tribe. Politically, the Brutor Tribe has indeed sided with the Republic, rather than taking the more reasonable path of the Thukker Tribe, and swearing off CONCORD. There are Brutor in the Federation, and in the Cartel in large numbers, and many of them still maintain their tribal traditions and ceremonies. I don't have to be waving the flag of the Republic in order to practice any particular culture.

If a concerted effort is made, and the Republic can be made into a place that is worthy of defending and sacrificing for, then I might change my mind; but in the state it is iin now, the Valklears would have to kill a significant portion of the Matari people, since they don't live in the Republic, and aren't helping it. If people in the service of the Republic really want to do something worthwhile, focus on the infrastructure, industry and defence of the Republic not "opportunities for vengeance".


This will never happen if people like yourself don't make it happen, you can wait an eternity for this but there are countless people waiting for this moment to occur.Will you actually stand up and bring this change in our people? Will you make it happen? Or will you let them continue to wait, like you've consigned yourself to doing? We are the epitomy of what our people can be, is there any other answer?


I will do my best, but there are two issues, the first is that the Republic might be too damaged at it's core to be saved, and it might need to be totally reworked in order to be viable. I hope it isn't, I hope that corruption and disharmony that is in the system can be cut out without destroying the whole thing and having to rebuild from scratch.

The second issue is, I might be a capsuleer, and I do have a certain understanding of industry and markets; and I could potentially have a place as someone who brings our people up. I don't exactly think that people would follow me. I am only half Brutor, I am also half Nefantar, and I am returning to my people, I was born Ammatar.

Even if one were to ignore the crimes I have committed against the Republic in the Service of the Nation, or in the service to the Ammatar, then I would still have to actually have the charisma to be an effective leader and role model for my people. I have my hands in the market, in the Republic, and hopefully my investments of isk and time will be helpful to the people of the Republic.

So this is why I focus on my people in a generalized sense and try not to worry so much about nationality.

For what it is worth, if you or anyone else knows something that I can do to help my people or something that I can do that doesn't harm another faction that I can do that makes life better for the people in the Republic let me know.




So lead by example. If your actions inspire at least one person, it really doesn't matter who stands behind your banner. There is a lot more to actually leading than just gathering a following. If your actions are worthy that will come in time.
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#126 - 2015-05-23 08:52:26 UTC
ValentinaDLM wrote:


I am on record, saying that the Elder fleet was an understandable, justifiable, and necessary event, that hasn't changed. I think the Thukker Tribe as a government has been much more reasonable than the republic for the most part.


Uh... respectfully, I was more thinking about your use of the word, 'reasonable', than 'understandable', 'justifiable' and 'necessary'...

Especially when you seem to compare it to the Republic...
Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#127 - 2015-06-17 13:31:19 UTC
ValentinaDLM wrote:
So, what is it, in your view that allows one to be Matari?


Either by being born from a Matari woman or raised in a Matari family.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Arnulf Ogunkoya
Clan Ogunkoya
Electus Matari
#128 - 2015-06-17 19:31:30 UTC
Makkal Hanaya wrote:
ValentinaDLM wrote:
So, what is it, in your view that allows one to be Matari?


Either by being born from a Matari woman or raised in a Matari family.


Or by being accepted by a clan as a member. And in most cases undergoing a Voluval after getting appropriate instruction.

Though I'll grant you not all clans are prepared to accept people who aren't of Minmatar blood. However some are and if the clan accepts you then for an outsider to question the decision is to insult the clan.

Regards, Arnulf Ogunkoya.

Makkal Hanaya
Revenent Defence Corperation
#129 - 2015-06-18 02:44:01 UTC
Arnulf Ogunkoya wrote:
Or by being accepted by a clan as a member. And in most cases undergoing a Voluval after getting appropriate instruction.

Though I'll grant you not all clans are prepared to accept people who aren't of Minmatar blood. However some are and if the clan accepts you then for an outsider to question the decision is to insult the clan.


Generally speaking, there's a difference between people who are 'born and raised' in a group and those who come into it later in life.

While a Minmatar clan might adopt someone who was raised, for example, in Amarr space, that person will always be aware that they don't fit in quite like the others. Things that seem intuitive to others will need to be explained to them. Even if the majority of people in the clan accept an 'adoptee' as one of them, there will always be a minority who doesn't accept them or is openly hostile or dismissive of their presence.

I'm hardly suggesting the Minmatar are the only people who do this. I work in a Caldari corporation and live in Caldari space. I have duel citizenship and have gotten to the point where I only speak Napanii with a mild accent. Yet even if I were to live here for a hundred years, disavow my religion, marry a nice Wiyrkomi girl, and pop out some tiny Patriots, there will always be *real* Caldari who look at me and think jaijii.

Render unto Khanid the things which are Khanid's; and unto God the things that are God's.

ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#130 - 2015-06-18 03:54:08 UTC
To be fair I don't see not being accepted by all people as a very big issue. Some people might look at someone as an outsider but others may accept them, this is true of almost all people everywhere however. The purpose was more to the point of what someone personally feels makes someone Matari. I don't however if that is your own personal viewpoint or not.

I am painfully aware I was raised in the mandate and lots of the finer points of Brutor culture are going to be things that aren't apparent to me. They aren't to most former slaves either though, so I am finding that people are usually pretty easy around me and are happy to explain to me what I ought to be doing..... I also know there will be some who are never going to forgive me corn be sin of being half nefantar and those people will simply loose out on getting to know me.

More and more I am getting the feeling that being Matari is a opening up your soul to your culture more than blood or circumstance of birth or political alignment. I don't know that there will be a clan that accepts me but, I now have faith that I know who I am, even if others don't. I Accept me.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#131 - 2015-06-18 04:04:58 UTC
You know who you are, so be it. Everything will fall into place in time. Always does.
Arnulf Ogunkoya
Clan Ogunkoya
Electus Matari
#132 - 2015-06-18 22:30:32 UTC
There will always be people that accept a person and those that do not. However if the social group you are joining accepts you then you are a member of that group.

If other members of it disagree with the consensus that's all well & good but it doesn't make them right.

And no clan will accept an outsider lightly. Not if they want to stay part of their parent tribe. They will make it very clear what is expected of them.

To an extent Minmatar experience this themselves if they move between clans on getting married. Different clans, even of the same tribe, can have radically different ways.

For example consider my clan, Five Towers, who are mostly administrators in the Parliament and Urban Management and Ava Starfire's clan Aman-Kezen. Her clan mostly live in the Mikramurka wilderness. Very different ways of life and outlooks but they are both Sebiestor clans.

Regards, Arnulf Ogunkoya.