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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Navy Cruisers

Author
SandKid
Sunset Logistics Company
#1 - 2015-06-15 23:17:48 UTC  |  Edited by: SandKid
EDIT: So after much Discussion (and great feedback), it would seem that there is only a minor need to 'change' some of the logi navy cruisers. Specifically it's been stated the Caldari Navy cruisers could use some love and some minor suggestions have been made for the others but are, by and large, functioning well enough.

SO...

Retracking the discussion towards Navy Caracal and Navy Osprey, please give your ideas and I'll do my best to update here in OP.


Navy Caracal
-Minor increase in CPU suggested
-Not particularly flexible in current design



Navy Osprey
-Considered to be in better shape than Caracal due to actual stats/slots, has some interesting potential layouts.
-Hybrid bonuses, with railguns in mind, (radical change) suggested
-Working the PG/CPU to allow more robust options on the ship rather than a raw increase in dmg allowing it to be even more versatile



If anyone suggests changes on the other Navy Cruisers that have some backing, I will add them to OP as well. It seems like the gallente and minmatar cruisers are held in high regard for their versatility and (within the race) naturally flying different. Think Drone/Hybrid and Projectile/Missile combinations in those cases. Would you want to see similar variations for Amarr/Caldari?
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#2 - 2015-06-15 23:25:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Xindi Kraid
I would very much appreciate it if both of a race's weapons systems were represented in the navy ships.

This could go for other sizes as well, though.
Change the battleships to have one ship for each of a race's weapon system and having two faction frigates and two navy BCs (and two navy destroyers) would also be nice.

Option A is interesting, but I think more faction hulls would be needed in general before it would make sense to look into adding specialist roles, and C doesn't really seem like it would have much of a use, even if it could be useful to have an industrial with a ship maintenance bay.
SandKid
Sunset Logistics Company
#3 - 2015-06-15 23:32:22 UTC
Xindi Kraid wrote:
I would very much appreciate it if both of a race's weapons systems were represented in the navy ships.

This could go for other sizes as well, though.
Change the battleships to have one ship for each of a race's weapon system and having two faction frigates and two navy BCs (and two navy destroyers) would also be nice.

Option A is interesting, but I think more faction hulls would be needed in general before it would make sense to look into adding specialist roles, and C doesn't really seem like it would have much of a use, even if it could be useful to have an industrial with a ship maintenance bay.


More faction ships would be cooler, but I doubt CCP will go for it. You're running the risk of creating a new kind of "Tiered" ships. I write these ideas with FW in mind, but remember that many players outside it use these ships also.

I can't say I'd increase the number of Navy Ships either - Tech I has the variety needed already and if you really want the improved increase, investing in T2 is already an option for more specialization. In their original intent, the navy ships are to be iconic and slightly more powerful than T1 for only a slight price increase.

On the topic of iconic, I do wish all navy ships were their own models like the frigates...but that's neither here nor there.

The navy ships should not be problematic like the original 'tiericide' designs, which they are dangerously close to as is. Really, they should be incentivized towards FW pilots - either through price point (more bang for your buck thanks to LP income) or they need to be specialized towards assisting FW directly (which runs the risk of rendering them useless outside FW).
Baali Tekitsu
AQUILA INC
#4 - 2015-06-15 23:34:05 UTC
No.
The navy Osprey is a terribad ship, but thats a question of balancing.
The other navy faction logi cruisers are used quite often and are fairly balanced.

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SandKid
Sunset Logistics Company
#5 - 2015-06-15 23:40:05 UTC  |  Edited by: SandKid
Baali Tekitsu wrote:
No.
The navy Osprey is a terribad ship, but thats a question of balancing.
The other navy faction logi cruisers are used quite often and are fairly balanced.


So option B basically...that's balancing them as they are.

Gallente is set, Minmatar ought to be tweaked in my personal opinion - but it works as you say.

Amarr could benefit from more variety, same as osprey problem.

Like I said, looking for opinions - not pushing any one idea. So what I took away (for sure on your post) is the Osprey definitely needs a look at.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#6 - 2015-06-16 00:22:28 UTC
Caldari have poor options for navy ships all round, every one of them in missiles, rarely seen outside highsec and it shows in the LP market. The Navy Caracal and Osprey are the least used faction cruisers in pvp, if anything I'd say the Nosprey is the better of the two because it works better with rapid lights.

I don't understand why we don't have navy rail ships like a navy rokh and a navy moa?
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2015-06-16 01:53:48 UTC
The amarr's ones both doing well.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#8 - 2015-06-16 02:14:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Stitch Kaneland
Most navy ships are in a good spot. Couple of them need some minor tweaking. Focusing mainly on the T1 logistic's variations here.

Scythe FI is quite a neat little ship under the surface. Its good in both weapon platforms its bonused for. Its a fast, skirmisher that it is well bonused for RLML (dmg bonus > rof bonus). Mini orthrus pretty much. Or it can fit an XLASB w/ dual prop and 180's and do close to 500dps and have a sig the size of a destroyer (even smaller with x-instinct booster). Can't really think of anything wrong with it (other than i can't fit 4 720's on it for super sexy reload speed Evil )

Augoror Navy: One of the few cruisers outside t3 that can get BS levels of tank. Over 100k with 2 t2 1600 plates. Coupled with the sig of a cruiser, and its a baby t3, just with really horrible dps in that configuration. Its also not that slow as long as you're not slapping plates on it, and kite fits do exist. But tbh, i think it excels at being the tackle ship that is like a turd that won't flush.

Exequror Navy: Kind of an oddball ship, people like to put blasters on it which can work for melting things. As this has pretty high dps for a navy cruiser. Cap is pretty bad though, so its susceptible to neuting (RoF bonus doesn't help the cap issue). It can make a decent kiter though, and is fast/agile enough to do it with the right fit. I'd say a cap buff is pretty much all it needs, maybe a smidge more CPU.

Osprey Navy: Its like a scyfi when using scourge, but can get a substantial shield tank, or use dual webs, or EWAR. It is semi-versitile. At the same time, it feels pretty luckluster too. Its never going to match the scyfi in terms of being able to be bonused to all missile types. It also has pretty terrible cap and sig isn't as good. I think giving it a 5th launcher would offset only have a 5% bonus to non-kinetic missiles, and boost kinetic missile dps enough to actually make ita threat against non-t2 gallente ships. This also follows the theme of no utility high's on caldari ships, but you get an extra turret. Slight cap buff would be nice as well.

On the other hand, a rail focused Nosprey could be interesting as well.
Specia1 K
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-06-16 03:20:01 UTC
Caldari has Navy cruisers?Shocked

(sarcasmRoll)

Champion of the Knights of the General Discussion

Thunderdome

Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#10 - 2015-06-16 07:43:51 UTC
With the possible exception of the Navy Osprey leave them alone, I've flown them a lot and not only do they work but they work well.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law

Valkin Mordirc
#11 - 2015-06-16 09:31:13 UTC
Out of the Navy Cruiser's the ones that need the most help are the Caldari. I think the rest have a pretty good place.

The Navy Aug gets stupid levels of tank,

The Nomen is a wonderful ship.

The Nexeq is both a good rail platform and a good blaster platform. It's fast, and gets a decent tank.

The VNI is very nearly OP,

The Stabber Fleet is a good armor kiter

And the SFI is a bit of an odd ball but its a really good tackler.

But I have nothing nice to say about the Navy Osprey or the Navy Caracle. The Navy Osprey is fast still can't match other ships. And the Navy Cara is...well just very very meh.
#DeleteTheWeak
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2015-06-16 11:23:50 UTC
Samillian wrote:
With the possible exception of the Navy Osprey leave them alone, I've flown them a lot and not only do they work but they work well.


Navy caracal is a bag of spanners and you know it P

Maybe if she had more cpu .....