Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Is there a way to Remove Faction warfare standings from the Use of smart bombs, were as other users of smart bombs who are not in FW don't' get a standing hit, we (FW Pilots) use a smart bomb in a fight and just ding a bot or if we destroy one of our wrecks we receive fac war standings hit, Is there a way to were fac war pilots won't get a standing hit if we use a smart bomb as say a firewall, drone killer and such or if we kill a wreck, but at the same time if a FW pilot of the same faction kills a pod we receive the double the penalty?

Yeah. I don't even do facwar and I agree with this 100%

Perhaps a mechanic that prevents standing hits between members in the same fleet at the very least?

Wow. I honestly had no idea this was a thing, and this thing sucks.

To me this looks like an exploit. I hope CCP fixes it.

CCPLS.

Definitely support this. Becoming more and more infuriating.

I was asked to poke my head in...

To answer the main question presented. Standings loss for your faction and security standings loss are two different mechanics.

This is somewhat connected to the bubble issue which still has a murky viewpoint.

The argument for faction standings being separated from bubbles is because we are in null security space. My argument is that faction standing penalties conflict with the intuitive nature of crime watch and standings in general. While faction standings and security standings are different, aggressive player actions have a clear pattern that standings loss for bubbles harms. It also discourages play and that is never a good thing.

In null, there is no law and no rules. However, in low security or high security space there is law and there are rules.

As it is current written, it is a request for an exact exemption for a singular mechanic for convenience. While removing smart bomb standings losses would be nice for the reasons listed. What is the greater argument for it? Suddenly, faction on faction can smart bomb each other to death. The above argument for bubbles is that we've moved into null security space. In allowing firewalling and not taking standings hits from wrecks we have created a new problem and a new way to exploit each other.

The argument that 'other people do not take standing hits when using smartbombs' doesn't work. Those players have chosen not to participate in faction warfare. Faction warfare comes with a new ruleset. The question I will counter with is:

What should the standings rules for faction warfare be?

I'm more than happy to take forward a good argument. But it has to be a true argument. I will also point out that complexity is not the path to take in this matter. Special exemptions are what the Crimewatch changes moved away from. The argument for clarity and consistency was made at Fanfest during the Round Table for Faction Warfare when people asked for suspect flags when entering faction warfare complexes. While I think that in general is a good idea or something like it, the greater problem is introducing a special moment when one type of gate in the game will flag a player with a suspect flag. It may not be a big deal and it may be something that people easily absorb and move past but those are the arguments that are made when CCP has countered some of these requests during discussions at Fanfest and Eve Vegas that I have been at.

So! TL;DR: As it is 'remove smartbombs from having faction standing penalties for militias' is not going to fly.

I would like to note; although slightly off topic. The other issue with Standings is the nature in which you obtain them. Besides for COSMOS (one time), FW Promotions (one time) and Mission spam (Which most pvpers do not want to do all the time) - Factions are an annoying mechanic to work around.

It should either be more dynamic, have less weight or have alternative ways of obtaining. Allowing players to be hated at all times by other factions even, but to move around where they apply effort and have their actions reflect that.

I''ve always found it funny that a guy does one level 4 Mission for the State Protectorate and he gains more standing then a year of plexing in the Warzone.

I am often told that drones are not all powerful because :smartbombs: 'cept I can't use smartbombs to counter drones without risking my status in the militia. If I drop too much in my standings I get kicked out of the militia.

There shouldn't be a standings hit for shooting fleet members. IMO.

While looking at the bubble issue and saying it is nullsec and there are no rules works as a valid reason to remove the faction standing loss, I think you could do the same thing if you looked at all of eve and made it an AoE argument.

As it stands AoE weapon systems are unique and powerful tools in the right hands. Drag bubbles, Firewalls, Drone destroying smartbombs, and perhaps in the future AoE citadel defenses as well as other things. At the moment Faction Warfare pilots are restricted from utilizing ANY of these weapon systems due to the potential risk of getting their entire alliance removed from FW.

While CCP may not enjoy adding exceptions to certain weapon types or systems, I believe removing standings losses from all AoE weapons is justified both from a mechanics standpoint (why shouldn't we be able to use certain weapons/tactics) as well as a RP/Lore standpoint (Privateers are willing to put their lives on the line and know they are in a hostile environment where all weapons and tactics available will be used to destroy the enemy).

Do you think that the idea presented in this fashion would get more traction with CCP?

In response to your question, "What should the standings rules for faction warfare be?" - I would start with a loss of standings for a directed attack on a fellow FW member and expand from there.

Another one on the band wagon for getting faction hits removed for aoe weapons. I honestly see no reason lore/mechanics wise, why FW players should solely be prevented from using these items. The whole don't be in FW argument is dumb, because the mechanic as it stands is dumb. There is no logical reason to only prevent FW players from utilizing these tools.

The awoxing thing would be a pretty minimal problem that only seriously affected pods, and there are minimal tangible benefits gained from specifically smartbombing as an awoxer as opposed to a pie so I don't really see how it matters. Currently you can awox within the FW system with out taking standings hits for your current faction via cross-faction awoxing. So the argument that you want to prevent no-standings hit awoxing when it already exists within the current mechanics is dumb.

Frankly, and as I hope this thread will eventually show, the most active FW group/players are more than willing to risk the potential negatives of getting rid of standings hits for these items. As the opportunity to finally use these very basic and important tools just significantly and obnoxiously outweighs it.