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RWM Play Station Wallets buying advantage in DUST is NOT gonna buy advantage in EVE ??

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Ghoest
#21 - 2011-12-29 15:40:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Ghoest
The OPs point is moronic(so is his avatar.)


Influencing PI just doesnt matter with respect to the balance of power in EVE.
PI was created intentionally so that there would be a relationship between Dust and EVE that actually means very little to EVE.

Wherever You Went - Here You Are
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#22 - 2011-12-29 15:54:15 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Great, another attempt to condense Sov effects. Still no efforts being put in play to address lack of content for the 2000 people who need to be on standby in case someone decides to siege one of those systems.


On that point I would like to see the option for Outposts to attract house specialized agents of some sort that provide an array of missions, most oriented toward group play.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#23 - 2011-12-29 15:55:46 UTC
Ghoest wrote:
The OPs point is moronic(so is his avatar.)


Influencing PI just doesnt matter with respect to the balance of power in EVE.
PI was created intentionally so that there would be a relationship between Dust and EVE that actually means very little to EVE.


I think the concern is that we know that DUST battles will eventually have some sort of influence on SOV in a system. Everyone is uncertain as to how much influence over SOV they will have.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#24 - 2011-12-29 15:55:59 UTC
Tippia wrote:
…because the chain of events is too long, too uncertain, and simply too unknown to make the $$ in → EVE Win out anything but very tenuous.

Yes. With real money, you can buy a PLEX.
With that PLEX, you can buy AUR.
With that AUR, you can pay some Dust bunnies.
…who might use that AUR to buy some more advanced gear (in some way we know nothing about).
…which might give them an edge in battle (in some way we know nothing about).
…which might overcome the better skill and tactics of the other team.
…which might let them sway the balance on some godforsaken planet (to some degree which we know nothing about).
…which might have some effect on the planet in EVE (in a way we know nothing about).
…which will give you… what advantage, exactly?

Yay. You blew up someone's Robotics factory (or… well… you blew up someone's felsic magma plant — P3 manufacturing is usually done in highsec where there won't be any Dust). That doesn't really qualify as a “serious advantage”, and you're most certainly not buying it with your real money — at best, you might nudge things a bit in your favour if the bunnies do their job right with your help.



From the sound of things, planets are going to be part of sov warfare now... so, breaking their planets may play a huge roll in causing alliances to failscade...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#25 - 2011-12-29 16:04:48 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
From the sound of things, planets are going to be part of sov warfare now... so, breaking their planets may play a huge roll in causing alliances to failscade...

Yes, that has been the rumour since pretty much day 1, but even now, more than two years later, we simply don't know. In fact, the only kind of solid CCP statement we have on the matter is that it won't affect sov (but that claim was made two years ago).

Hence the second-to-last line: it might have some effect on the planet in EVE in a way we know nothing about, and until we do, saying that it will give some serious advantage (or, indeed, any advantage at all) is just silly.
Fondon
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#26 - 2011-12-29 16:24:51 UTC
isk4trade wrote:


... or am I TOTALLY missing something HUGELY "other" that would be the case instead and I just don't see it ?



We're all missing the specifics surrounding Dust. I do think that buying advantage isn't intrinsically a bad thing in a free to play game, it all depends on how it's implemented (like how many advantage can we buy per match) and the relationship between grinding currency and buying currency.

Not all the matches are meant to impact EVE players and if a reasonable amount of money per month would allow you to play at a competitive level I for one would remove the pay-2-win tag from Dust.
Ferrenc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2011-12-29 16:44:32 UTC
a lot of good points here, except one... i know you nerds utterly loathe the idea of having to stand up and walk away from your computer, but making dust a pc game would be uberfail, most fps players dont play on pc (dont contradict it, i turn on cod and a million other ppl are playing on ps3) and while i think it should have been multiplatform - it wasnt, so deal with it. ive yet to see a thread about dust that wasnt at least 50% complaining about this issue.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#28 - 2011-12-29 16:49:31 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
From the sound of things, planets are going to be part of sov warfare now... so, breaking their planets may play a huge roll in causing alliances to failscade...

Yes, that has been the rumour since pretty much day 1, but even now, more than two years later, we simply don't know. In fact, the only kind of solid CCP statement we have on the matter is that it won't affect sov (but that claim was made two years ago).

Hence the second-to-last line: it might have some effect on the planet in EVE in a way we know nothing about, and until we do, saying that it will give some serious advantage (or, indeed, any advantage at all) is just silly.


Request for clarification.

The last I saw I thought they stated that DUST would not determine SOV, but would be an alternative means for affecting SOV.

I could easily have missed something or not be remembering it correctly, could you confirm?

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#29 - 2011-12-29 16:57:43 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Request for clarification.

The last I saw I thought they stated that DUST would not determine SOV, but would be an alternative means for affecting SOV.

I could easily have missed something or not be remembering it correctly, could you confirm?
Fair point. I don't remember the exact wording.

I'm just drawing on memories from FF'09 when I talked to CCP Hammer about what it would and wouldn't do, and we discussed the panicked “onoz, our sov!1” rumours that were floating about at the time. The gist of it was that no, at that point, sov was still planned to be decided in space, not on the ground (but sure, it might still be contested on the ground in some way).

Still: we simply don't know, and drawing a clear line from $$$ to Win (or even to “significant advantage”) at this point is just silly.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#30 - 2011-12-29 17:04:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Tippia wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Request for clarification.

The last I saw I thought they stated that DUST would not determine SOV, but would be an alternative means for affecting SOV.

I could easily have missed something or not be remembering it correctly, could you confirm?
Fair point. I don't remember the exact wording.

I'm just drawing on memories from FF'09 when I talked to CCP Hammer about what it would and wouldn't do, and we discussed the panicked “onoz, our sov!1” rumours that were floating about at the time. The gist of it was that no, at that point, sov was still planned to be decided in space, not on the ground (but sure, it might still be contested on the ground in some way).

Still: we simply don't know, and drawing a clear line from $$$ to Win (or even to “significant advantage”) at this point is just silly.


Agreed, and thanks for the clarification.

One of these days I'm going to have to get over my "responsible parent guilt" and devote some money to going to Fanfest. But every time I seriously consider it I look at my little girl talking excitedly about how she would really love to take martial arts lessons, or do summer camp again next summer, or whatever has captured her 6yr old imagination at the moment... and I just close the link.

Sometimes it's hard to be a good daddy... but I'm okay with that.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Vallek Arkonnis
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2011-12-29 17:07:09 UTC
Valei Khurelem wrote:
it will be the people who have the most money RL and not the ones with actual skill that will win in this game


Have you ever played a FPS? Vets with knives > Noobs with rocket launchers.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2011-12-29 17:09:31 UTC
I think this thread is entirely jumping the gun on this issue.

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Ferrenc
State War Academy
Caldari State
#33 - 2011-12-29 17:13:39 UTC
Vallek Arkonnis wrote:
Valei Khurelem wrote:
it will be the people who have the most money RL and not the ones with actual skill that will win in this game


Have you ever played a FPS? Vets with knives > Noobs with rocket launchers.



i play a lot of fps games, this is an excellent point
Chevy Hakoke
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2011-12-29 17:30:50 UTC
Skydell wrote:
Great, another attempt to condense Sov effects. Still no efforts being put in play to address lack of content for the 2000 people who need to be on standby in case someone decides to siege one of those systems.




AND there's the 3 million dollar statement... EVE has been pretty stagnant as of late. I mean how many high sec wars do you hear about? You think Dust players are just gonna sit in stations spinning ships waiting to be called on? GTFO hell no, they're gonna say "Dis game is dead, time to play Modern Warfare 4."

This has fail written all over it, CCP thinks EVE/MMO players have the same mentality and mindset as FPS players... they are in for a very rude awakening.
Vertisce Soritenshi
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2011-12-29 17:37:09 UTC
Again...just pointing out the level of misinformation and assumptions being made in this thread is staggering...

Bounties for all! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2279821#post2279821
Chevy Hakoke
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#36 - 2011-12-29 17:40:38 UTC
Ferrenc wrote:
a lot of good points here, except one... i know you nerds utterly loathe the idea of having to stand up and walk away from your computer, but making dust a pc game would be uberfail, most fps players dont play on pc (dont contradict it, i turn on cod and a million other ppl are playing on ps3) and while i think it should have been multiplatform - it wasnt, so deal with it. ive yet to see a thread about dust that wasnt at least 50% complaining about this issue.



Hmmm let look at Steams list of most played game of the day
Counter-Strike #2
COD:MW3 #4
Counter-Strike: Source # 5
Team Fortress 2 #6


I could go on, but as you can see the PC is doing very well in regards to FPS, especially in the long term.... there aren't any 3-5 year old games that are being played on the consoles, which mean Console gamers treat games as a fad, its really popular... then dies quick

As I said, this is going to be CCP's Waterloo, the perfect storm of failure
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc.
Arctic Light
#37 - 2011-12-29 18:04:04 UTC
How ever buying equipment with ISK for bunnies doesn't work all that well in FPS games such as DUST since human element has a tendency to mess up things.
In EVE player skill works differently and even then having massive amounts of ISK doesn't help that much if you don't have people & alts to fly your titans / SC's / what ever.

DUST has a lot of potential even enough that I'm wondering if I should buy PS3 instead of X-box for some casual fun when I'm not playing EVE, not to mention that I still don't own a blue-ray player for my TV, hmmm. Cool
Othran
Route One
#38 - 2011-12-29 18:26:57 UTC
Other than existing Eve players I can't see why anyone would play Dust.

It strikes me as a game which needs a LOT of people playing it to make it work. That's before you link in Eve.

Sorry but I don't see it doing anything other than bombing big time. I can't see dedicated FPS (console) players playing it for long and Eve players have computers. Yes they also have consoles but given the choice which FPS player would give up the mouse?

I can see Eve players using it to "manipulate" the market, whether through actual mechanics or FUD.

Other than that, best of luck. Dust WILL need a lot of that.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#39 - 2011-12-29 18:43:14 UTC
Chevy Hakoke wrote:
Skydell wrote:
Great, another attempt to condense Sov effects. Still no efforts being put in play to address lack of content for the 2000 people who need to be on standby in case someone decides to siege one of those systems.




AND there's the 3 million dollar statement... EVE has been pretty stagnant as of late. I mean how many high sec wars do you hear about? You think Dust players are just gonna sit in stations spinning ships waiting to be called on? GTFO hell no, they're gonna say "Dis game is dead, time to play Modern Warfare 4."

This has fail written all over it, CCP thinks EVE/MMO players have the same mentality and mindset as FPS players... they are in for a very rude awakening.


Why would they sit around and wait to be called on?

They can enter a match any time they like.

If they prefer they can go take a planet for their own use without being hired by anyone... and keep it too.

Try again?

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Guttripper
State War Academy
Caldari State
#40 - 2011-12-29 19:15:42 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:

Why would they sit around and wait to be called on?

They can enter a match any time they like.

If they prefer they can go take a planet for their own use without being hired by anyone... and keep it too.

Try again?

Let's look at it from a console player's point of view with some assumptions about the game.

If console players were given "phat lewt" from various alliances in previous matches and their actions may have meant something, then why would they run a worthless match using stock options (ammo, guns, vehicles, etc.)? Once they possess a bit of power, I doubt they would be prone to accept being standard again. Or if console players can keep what they gained from previous matches, and thus "advance" in the game, then again, why would they risk their "phat lewt" on a worthless match just to play?

If the alliances today do not seem prone to dump huge amounts of ISK in space ships to destroy each other in epic battles that made the news, then why would the same alliances want to spend ISK for console players on some gaming aspect they may or may not even have a direct influence? Short of the console players having a direct effect upon the alliances, the alliances as a whole probably will not bother supplying "phat lewt". Without the toys, console players will play games that will supply without jumping through hoops.

And since it seems console players will be affecting null security only, if by chance events got drastic out there, then more Eve players will crowd high security planets similar to the introduction of the POCO (and the bitching of my girlfriend about her backwards area of planets being invaded)...

Just some thoughts.