EVE General Discussion

Yes, CCP made Player Corps and they are a needed mechanic. They are still a social group, but most older Player Corp sitting players just treat them as a safe haven for their own activity rather than a group of people.

Of course it isn't your job. Even for many players in NPC Corps, they create rather than consume content from others. And they also aren't here whining that CCP and others should be doing more. They aren't here whining and complaining for nerfs to others play styles to suit their own self interests and they aren't here complaining that CCP is failing just because they are trying to make changes that will help.

Even those that don't often create content in NPC corps still regularly contribute to the social environment of the corp just by taking part in the activities that the Corp runs. Player Corp sitters rarely do the same.

No one is suggesting you try to control anyone other than yourself. Most Player Corp sitting complainers don't even do that though. Rather than take personal responsibility for things and try to offer what they can, it constantly comes back to externalising the problems as being CCPs fault, or some other player or groups fault. Never, what can they do to help other players. Only, what can they complain about that helps themselves.

You don't need buffs for players to get active. It just needs players to get active.

Submit what you like, you do know we're talking about a game right?

Indeed. And the point is risk vs reward, right? Since we've discussed the different levels of risk, we should then also discuss the different levels of reward. Namely, NPC corp pilots cannot jointly hold property with other pilots, which includes items like POCOs, POSes and SOV, and NPC corp pilots are subject to an 11% corporation tax while corp pilots can chose 0% tax.

Seems to me to be a reasonable balance between the two. There's no need for things to be monolithic. Just like an Atron is a fast but fragile frigate while an Incursus is a slower but tankier frigate with more DPS - the Atron and the Incusus are different yet balanced, just like the NPC corp and player corp character are different but balanced, with different bonuses and penalties such that different players can make different choices between the two based on their preferences.


Yep. Sounds good to me. (YMMV, obviously. )


If your issue is that nullsec players can make ISK via highsec alts (or, transversely, that highsec players can make ISK via nullsec carrier ratting alts in, say, CFC in Deklein) then you should be looking to address the alt system.

If your issue is that highsec Incursions are too lucrative in your opinion, you should be looking to address the Incursion system. (For what it's worth, looking through a couple week's worth of Vindicator losses on zKill I see a number of highsec losses of such ships worth close to 2 billion each, some in NPC corps, many in player corps, so it's not an endeavor without risk, regardless of what type of corp the pilot is in.)



Wouldn't it then follow that the risk of NPC characters is... other NPC characters? If simple competition between station traders who effectively cannot be wardeced means station trading is balanced, it seems that competition between NPC corp characters means being in an NPC corp is balanced as well. I'm reminded of a post many pages ago where somebody complained about being out-competed for asteroids, so because he couldn't hack it he wanted to shoot people. If he had been outcompeted in the marketplace, I wonder if he would have been calling for the ability to wardec and shoot traders as well... If you then think that there's too much ISK to be made in highsec for competition to be a factor, then I think you need to be looking at discussing with CCP the balance of ISK availability in the game.

Anyway, I don't see why it matters where the ISK comes from, whether the ISK springs out of CCP programed spawns, or from transaction with another player, or from picking up a freighter's loot after a gank. And what's the difference between a new player highsec mining in a Retriever and a veteran player highsec mining in a Retriever? Same for running L4 missions, which new players can do via a BS somewhat soon after joining if that's what they focus on. Your only complaint that I have some sympathy with is in regards to Incursion running, but I'm quite unfamiliar with that aspect of EVE so won't discuss.

Really, the only two objections to NPC corps I see often are:
a) "I want to shoot them in highsec but I cant," and
b) Incursion runners (or miners, or whomever) make too much ISK for the lack of risk of being shot by other players.

For a) I say HTFU and come to low/null. There's plenty of us NPC types there for folks to shoot. For b) I say start a thread discussing Incursions or mining or general ISK-making opportunities in highsec.

It doesn't really matter that's true, it's just funny to image a person sitting behind a computer knowing he's trolling (because honestly, we both know that despite your obvious issues you're not really stupid, simply emotional over another poster telling you something uncomfortable).


After this last bit you have my word that I'll leave this alone even though we now you won't (because you think you have a wedge over someone who hurt your feelings, when what you should have done is wonder why your feelings are exposed over a forum lol). I listened to your CSM interviews, you could actually contribute something if you could get past your issues. Your problem is your ideological bent, not your intelligence.

Feel free to continue, I'll simply say good luck bro.

Between the military and the financial industry before that, I've dealt with enough intellectually dishonest people to know irredeemable when I see it.

You realise that you are the one constantly insulting and attacking me, claiming I have issues and I'm a carebear and a whole host of other colourful terms, right? The truth is I have no feelings about this game neither do I have any feelings about your existence, I simply find it entertaining when people decide to target me for their unrelenting feelings of hatred. I have no "issues" as you say, you're simply projecting whatever problem it is you've got against me, as you always have. Obviously, like Kaarous, I've said something or done something at some point in the distant past that has made you decide that I'm a horrible horrible person, that's obvious from your response to anything I post being hostile and insulting, regardless of what or where I post. Whatever issues exist here, they are yours. I doubt you shall ever see me getting emotional over either a game or posting on the internet.

I don't disagree with this, but the answer doesn't lie in kicking NPC corp players in the nuts. Players need to want to move out, not to be forced out.

It's easier said that done though. The problem is that social tools do not exist (yet) so getting people from NPC corps on board with doing something they wouldn't necessarily do on a normal day is quite difficult. Player corps obviously do have their problems too though. Its impossible to create a sizable highsec corp that operates without the heavy use of NPC alts where the primary focus isn't PvP. It's quite sad that is the case, but it's true. It's why groups like red frog only use their corp as a contract pool and do everything else with NPC characters. Personally I think the mechanics around wardecs need to be completely revamped so that non-PvP corporations are more viable and not instantly the prime targets, and I think that we need the social tools discussed in the other thread to overlay both player and NPC corp affiliation to give a better way for people to group up and play cooperatively without fully committing.

It's just someone's trolling Alt having a laugh

That's rich coming from you.

The interpretation of the quotes is irrelevant; those quotes exist, so how is he not being honest?

You're the expert on bullshit so I'll bow down to your superior knowledge.

Yes, I'm a liar for presenting evidence that those quotes are correctly attributed to their authors and that they exist; and he's a liar for presenting those quotes in the first place

Those quotes exist.
Those people did say them.
He did present those quotes.
You are still liars.
Anything else?