EVE General Discussion

Lol, I'm not stung about anything being that I live in a section of space where wars are irrelevant since there's no concord. I just find it endlessly amusing that you're on your high horse about how daring you are when at war, when the only war your corp has ever been involved in has caused the loss of a third of your member count. The truth is you're no different from the "carebears" you look down on.

Just like station trading comes with it's own form of risk, NPC characters hauling, mining and missioning face their own form of risk - billion ISK freighter losses for NPC corp pilots happen every day just about, for example, and NPC corp pilots lose mining barges in highsec every day too.

But station trading doesn't make ISK? I've been researching what it would take to get in to station trading with a market alt. People reportedly make hundreds of millions, even billions, of ISK per month via station trading - it can be extremely lucrative from what I've read. And because it's a form of gameplay that happens often in highsec and is immune to wardecs, It is closely related to the topic at hand. You appear to be concerned about people mining, hauling, running missions and such in highsec without the risk of being wardeced, but not concerned about doing economic transactions without the risk of being wardeced, and I'm not sure why you make such a distinction.

Thank you for illustrating the point. Those pilots face suicde gank risk. PLAYER CORP pilots face suicide gank AND WAR DEC risk.

The cost of war dec protection is 11% corp taxes. No mining yeild tax. No LP store penalty, no ship class restriction, no travel restrictions (you're a member of a Gallente NPC corp, but unless you screwed up your standings, all of Caldari space is yours to travel), no nothing. 11% corp tax and inability to own certain structures, that's it.

And that's the reason NPC corps become these RichVet havens like blinged out incursion runners (many of whom are alts of out-of-highsec players, creating a 'wealth funnel' that makes WH, Null sec and low sec conflict aimed at cutting supply lines totally irrelevant).

Good reform ups the cost of residing in an NPC corp for such rich vets while making them ok places to hang your hat if you are a true new player or casual.



Station trading doesn't produce new isk or materials, in space activities do. NPC corp members get to do this with reduced risk and negligible cost (11% tax and inability to place structures). people don't need to be forced out of npc corps, Veterans using npc corps as a refuge should face higher costs for the protection.

The risk of station trading is other station traders. not everyone makes isk doing it, sometimes there are losers. The inherent risk of loss makes market gameplay balanced. There is no inherent risk from being in an npc corp, in fact in high sec being in an npc corp cuts risk in have (by eliminating war decs, leaving only suicide ganking and tricking a -player into aggressing as the only in space risks)

I totally disagree with your judgement that veteran players in NPC corps damage the game. I have not seen any data that supports that opinion. Would you mind sharing your reasons why you think that? You mention the specific case of multiboxing miners - which are no longer a factor, due to changes in the rules regarding multiboxers doing input broadcasting rather than changes to the NPC corp system. What else... Incursion runners? While I personally have no experience with that part of EVE and therefore can't say whether or not NPC corp characters running Incursions is damaging to the game or not, I'd suggest that if it is a problem, the solution for it, like with multiboxing, is to address the Incursion mechanic gameplay directly, rather than quite indirectly by modifying NPC corp mechanics.


I'm not telling you to join an NPC corp or to fly an Ishtar, I'm asking you why you don't so I can better understand your position.


I find it odd you state that, when it's the NPC corps who are subject to 11% tax (which realistically is an ISK sink since it never returns to the game) while it's player corps that can have a 0% tax, or if there is a tax it all goes to other players who then have the ability to put it back into the game.

Plenty of folks in player corps run incursions. The only thing NPC corps are protected from is "sec status enforcement manipulation" because, the NPC corp pays CONCORD more. Why can't you understand that?

Phone fail (well user fail).

"The truth is whatever I feel like it should be!"

~Lucas Kell, 2015.

#3 is redundant. CAS has proven that all of that can be done without player corp status.

CCP should be thinking of ways to enhance player corps in the first place.

Suggestions:

1. Clean up the corp name database so people can use "now defunct " corp names.

2. Extend missions to corps. Can use copr mission levels to scale with corp size . lvl 1 is 10 members, etc...

3. Remove wardecs, and add incursion/FW bonus and penalties for common corporate operations based on corporate standings.

4. Add a partial SOV mechanic to low sec.

5. More in-game events for null sec space.

Q. Why these suggestions are not essentially PVP focused?

A. CCP is still balancing ships, ore, sov mechanics, etc. These things can be implemented in game with far less financial cost to the devs, and far less re-balancing issues to PVP.

Hardly. What can be done versus what is actually being done are two very different things.

There are 12 starter Corps and then the other NPC Corps players end up in.

That CAS is an example that sticks out from the others shows that the need for NPC sitting players to do more rather than complain, is hardly redundant. It's hardly done at all by most of the NPC Corp forum whiners.

It's is a perfect example of the self interest shown by the people here who don't contribute to their NPC Corp, but whinge here in the forum that others and CCP should be doing something.

Start contributing to make the NPC Corps great and that's where the issues of retention will really start to be reversed. CCP can only provide the game environment. The social environment needs people being social. That's not what most NPC Corps do.


Have you actually made these suggestions to CCP as well constructed threads in F&I?

Some I can see merit in, others have more downsides than ups, but without them being properly proposed to CCP, they won't see them.

It's also a pity that the only suggestions are about what CCP should do, rather than what individuals can actually do to help. It always comes down to expecting others to do things rather than taking action.

Yes, CCP made NPC Corps and they are a needed mechanic. They are still a Corp, but most older NPC sitting players just treat them as a safe haven for their own activity rather than a group of people.

Of course it isn't your job. Creating content does not mean doing the work for others. It also isn't the job of anyone else, yet many, many players in the game choose to contribute because it makes the game more enjoyable for them and for others. Even for many players in player Corps, they consume rather than create content most often. But they also aren't here whinging that CCP and others should be doing more. They aren't here whining and complaining for nerfs to other's play styles to suit their own self interests and they aren't here complaining that CCP is failing just because they are trying to make changes that will help.

Even those that don't often create content in player corps still regularly contribute to the social environment of the corp just by taking part in the activities that the Corp runs. NPC sitters rarely do the same.

No one is suggesting you try to control anyone other than yourself. Most NPC sitting complainers don't even do that though. Rather than take personal responsibility for things and try to offer what they can, it constantly comes back to externalising the problems as being CCPs fault, or some other player or groups fault. Never, what can they do to help other players. Only, what can they complain about that helps themselves.

You don't need buffs for players to get active. It just needs players to get active.