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Missile TC/TE - Stoicfaux's Scurrilously Speculative Spreadsheet

Author
stoicfaux
#1 - 2015-06-07 18:07:52 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
ACHTUNG! This is all highly speculative and subject to silencing by CCP's ISD's little known Elite Delta Force's Goon Squad's "Maintaining Internal Informational Integrity Moderation Untergruppe."[1]


As you may or may not know, there are Missile Guidance Computers and Enhancers on Sisi. Meaning, TCs and TEs for missiles appear to be in the pipeline. They are just placeholders without any attributes right now, but change is rumored to be in the making. The MGC/MGE appear to affect missile explosion radius and missile velocity.

In the interests of OCD, lack of patience, preparing for the future, and being totally bored while recovering from surgery, I have taken the liberty of creating a googledocs Spreadsheet to help toy with the possible effects of a missile specific TC/TE.

googledocs link: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1AxQeNMdFTrE84V7CrkzAUdI8x08EqOGcU84aRcwgQg8/edit?usp=sharing

The first worksheet (tab at the bottom) is for optimizing a mix of TPs and MGC/MGEs (see comment "a" below.) The "golem, typhoon, etc." worksheets calculate the Applied Missile Damage of a couple of current (TP only) and possible future (TP+MGC) fits.

Biggest findings so far are:
a) TPs and MGC/MGEs affect different attributes, but have the same effect on the Missile Damage Formula, so they suffer from stacking penalties independently. Meaning 2 TPs + 2 MGC will be significantly less stacking penalized than 4 TPs or 4 MGC/MGEs.

b) For purposes of comparison, you can "convert" a MGC/MGE's effect into an equivalent TP thusly: 1 / (1 - MGC/E bonus). For example a "30%" MGC would be equivalent to a 1 / (1 - .3) = 1 / .7 = 1.43 aka a 43% TP. By comparison a Skill V PWNAGE TP provides a 37.5 bonus.


Keywords: missile tc, missile te, missile nerfs, missile pass, omg the sky is falling.


[1] The existence of which was revealed by a top secret CCP org chart found in some of the Snowden documents.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#2 - 2015-06-07 18:50:36 UTC
the thought of that almost makes me want to use missiles again

also wonder if you turn on/change scripts does the current volley do the whole disappear thing?

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#3 - 2015-06-07 20:02:24 UTC
Just as I nail my phoenix fit CCP does this to meStraight
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#4 - 2015-06-07 20:41:49 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Just as I nail my phoenix fit CCP does this to meStraight


Never forget that CCP are the greatest trolls of all.

Never.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

stoicfaux
#5 - 2015-06-08 02:22:51 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Just as I nail my phoenix fit CCP does this to meStraight

Good News! Hypothetically, if the MGC has a 30% bonus, then a Phoenix with 4 MGCs, 3 Rigors, and 3 bonused TPs + 60% web (from a Rapier or Hyena) can one volley a 34k ehp shield tanked MWD'ing Ishtar with Citadel Cruise missiles in siege mode. (Ishtar has just 32k ehp if you fire 1 EM missile and two explosive ones.)

I've added a tab for the Phoenix on the spreadsheet.


Obviously, CCP will need to nerf Citadel Cruise missiles and the Phoenix when MGCs are released.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#6 - 2015-06-08 03:59:15 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
[

Obviously, CCP will need to nerf Citadel Cruise missiles and the Phoenix when MGCs are released.



That is whats going to happen, not only to Citadel Cruise but all missiles. These numbers are usefull to show how much larger expl radius missiles will get (1 scripted MGC to get back to current is a good estimate)
unidenify
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#7 - 2015-06-08 04:08:32 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Just as I nail my phoenix fit CCP does this to meStraight


Never forget that CCP are the greatest trolls of all.

Never.



I hate to jump ahead because it is entire possible that CCP decide to make MGC/MGE affect explosive velocity
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#8 - 2015-06-08 04:29:06 UTC
the other thing I immediately thought was that their stats would be much lower than predicted. I imagine the mid version at 15% and the low at 8% or something.

having it do something for exp velocity is also possible.

or perhaps a whole rework of the missile formula!?

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#9 - 2015-06-08 06:49:50 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
stoicfaux wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Just as I nail my phoenix fit CCP does this to meStraight

Good News! Hypothetically, if the MGC has a 30% bonus, then a Phoenix with 4 MGCs, 3 Rigors, and 3 bonused TPs + 60% web (from a Rapier or Hyena) can one volley a 34k ehp shield tanked MWD'ing Ishtar with Citadel Cruise missiles in siege mode. (Ishtar has just 32k ehp if you fire 1 EM missile and two explosive ones.)

I've added a tab for the Phoenix on the spreadsheet.


Obviously, CCP will need to nerf Citadel Cruise missiles and the Phoenix when MGCs are released.



Well I can see myself dropping the two webs for these new MGCs and possibly abanding the torps depending if they get nerfed or not. The hardest part was getting it to roam and hopefully CCP wont cripple the missiles.
Chan'aar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-06-08 10:13:07 UTC
Ugh

Given *CCP* I fully expect if these are introduced that all missiles will be nerfed to the point that at least two of these are needed to get back to the stats we have.

Sad

(yes I am a pessimist but, CCP prove me wrong I dare you)
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#11 - 2015-06-08 10:24:19 UTC
Some speculations regarding RHML Barghs for a fleet:

1700m/s cold, 180k ehp.

860dps with CN, 105m / 122m/s, 2.3k volley (x25) out to 94km.
With 2 Enhancers roughly: 860dps, 86m / 155m/s, 2.3k volley out to 130(?)km, around 1.2k per volley applied to a linked, untackled ishtar (?)

Doesn't look bad imho.

(ship toasted that into the wrong thread, taking he 15% ones)
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2015-06-08 10:40:07 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
the other thing I immediately thought was that their stats would be much lower than predicted. I imagine the mid version at 15% and the low at 8% or something.

having it do something for exp velocity is also possible.

or perhaps a whole rework of the missile formula!?


But that would be a terrible idea because the new mods ONLY affect the firing ship - why would you EVER replace a TP with a module which gives less gain to less people?

No, unfortunately, I'm very much on the side of "missiles are about to get nerfed so hard they're not going to be able to sit down for two years".

There are so few ships who even have the slots to fit these as it is and there's absolutely no way we'll just see a blanket missile buff mod without some compensating nerfs to the missiles themselves. So I'll have to fit these mods to get back to where it was - in slots I don't have on ships with already questionable DPS in the main.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
Arla Sarain
#13 - 2015-06-08 10:43:54 UTC
afkalt wrote:

Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it.

I doubt you are wrong too.
Zappity
Kurved Trading
#14 - 2015-06-08 10:48:41 UTC
Predicting that the next module tiericide round will be the other missile launchers and mods. Seems inconceivable that this would finally get introduced without taking a look at the base modules. Nerf incoming I reckon.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2015-06-08 10:51:21 UTC
Zappity wrote:
Predicting that the next module tiericide round will be the other missile launchers and mods. Seems inconceivable that this would finally get introduced without taking a look at the base modules. Nerf incoming I reckon.


And a huge one.

I mean, how could you balance these mods so that a typhoon isn't a monstrosity (it's the only hull with slots to carry this) yet a normal ship is effective? You can't, so it'll be made so the typhoon is ok and the rest are more use reprocessed....
Zappity
Kurved Trading
#16 - 2015-06-08 11:10:46 UTC
Actually, I wonder if that's why the LMLs were done first in tiericide while all the others were left for later. Effects on larger missile launchers will be greater I guess.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.

Dato Koppla
Kiwis In Space
Dock Workers
#17 - 2015-06-08 12:28:55 UTC
This would throw so many things out of whack. I do have the same fear as the others though, bring in missile enhancers, only to nerf the actual weapons to hell and back making them even worse than they currently are.
Chan'aar
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2015-06-08 13:33:05 UTC
Thinking more about it, this could go the same way that the introduction of Drone Damage Amps has.

Drone ships were (fairly) well balanced until the introduction of the DDA's now despite several nerfs (which only seem to affect ships without drone bonues) we are still Ishtar and Domi Online.

If it goes the same way we may have a couple of years of glorious missile dominance of the meta. Twisted












< I've had a lot of coffee this morning> Roll

afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2015-06-08 13:50:21 UTC
Drone ships had the slots for the amps. Missile boats almost universally do not have the lows for that module.

Unless the mod alone is better than a second/third BCU - seems pretty unlikely, then they're not going to be on many ships (exceptions exist but are exceptions).

The mids compete with tank and target painters. Given target painters are fleet assist modules I'd need to have some STUPID good incentive to use the mod over them (unless painters too, are getting the nerf bat).

I suppose one could swap rigor rigs for a mod and push the tank down to rigs...but that's only really going to maintain the status quo, +/- a few percentage points.

I'm deeply, deeply, skeptical.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2015-06-08 14:03:53 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Drone ships had the slots for the amps. Missile boats almost universally do not have the lows for that module.

Unless the mod alone is better than a second/third BCU - seems pretty unlikely, then they're not going to be on many ships (exceptions exist but are exceptions).

The mids compete with tank and target painters. Given target painters are fleet assist modules I'd need to have some STUPID good incentive to use the mod over them (unless painters too, are getting the nerf bat).

I suppose one could swap rigor rigs for a mod and push the tank down to rigs...but that's only really going to maintain the status quo, +/- a few percentage points.

I'm deeply, deeply, skeptical.

Heres your incentive. Painters cap their benefits after 4 /5. You're in a fleet.
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