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Missile Guidance Enhancer?
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#21 - 2015-06-05 07:16:39 UTC
Nasar Vyron wrote:
People who think missiles would need to be nerfed to compensate are seriously kidding themselves.


Whether it is necessary or not: people who think CCP would not add new modules to buff missiles without some corresponding kick in the teeth to missiles do not know CCP very well. It's always at least two steps forward, one step back, and often it's one step forward, two steps back.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Janeway84
Insane's Asylum
#22 - 2015-06-05 07:24:49 UTC
Like the idea of missile tracking enhancers but Im against any nerf to missiles overall since they aren't that great.
Exception being light missiles.
Imo they should do like with drone tracking links, 1 low slot module and a midslot module and it would be fair for armor and shield tanked missile boats Smile
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#23 - 2015-06-05 07:41:11 UTC
Caldari 5 wrote:
Screenshots from SiSi
http://gyazo.com/08f9d8f3241777b7873a55e690bf3888 The descriptions
http://gyazo.com/08f9d8f3241777b7873a55e690bf3888 nothing on the attrib tab
http://gyazo.com/c87f5fdcd5941e09a639867b6628f1b6 they are listed on the market as Tracking Enhancers

Given the above I'm guessing that they are low slot items and will follow a similar set of fittings to other Tracking Enhancers?

Is there going to be a Dev Post in here soon about it?


I hope there's an active mid slot version like Tracking computers then.

O and about god dam time.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#24 - 2015-06-05 07:58:20 UTC
Problem with an active module is that missiles tend to bug out when you apply stat changing properties to them while they are in flight.

"Tomahawks?"

"----in' A, right?"

"Trouble is, those things cost like a million and a half each."

"----, you pay me half that and I'll hump in some c4 and blow the ---- out of it my own damn self."
Tappits
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#25 - 2015-06-05 08:20:02 UTC
Sobaan Tali wrote:
Problem with an active module is that missiles tend to bug out when you apply stat changing properties to them while they are in flight.


Activate the mod 1st then... and if the mod goes offline while in flight the missiles go dud...
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#26 - 2015-06-05 14:08:06 UTC
Wynta wrote:
instead of the usual 7.5% kinetic damage.

Been reading this a lot lately and wondering where this comes from. taking a quick look through the official attributes for the Caldari ship line up and I do not see a bonus to kinetic damage listed anywhere.

Using EvE HQ, PYFA and EvE Droid as a reference it appears that there are no bonuses either as the Caldari ships all seem to have the same DPS output level no matter what damage type you put into the launchers/guns. Since all of these apps show the DPS boost other ships get that do have a bonus to a specific damage type(rattle and kinetic/thermal) I have to wonder if this is one of those popular misconceptions, or a relic from times past that is no longer true.

If you or anyone else has a link to any information that would help shed light on this I would appreciate you sharing it. Otherwise, from the available information I would have to surmise that this kinetic damage lock is a fairy tale.
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#27 - 2015-06-05 14:21:15 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Wynta wrote:
instead of the usual 7.5% kinetic damage.

Been reading this a lot lately and wondering where this comes from. taking a quick look through the official attributes for the Caldari ship line up and I do not see a bonus to kinetic damage listed anywhere.

Using EvE HQ, PYFA and EvE Droid as a reference it appears that there are no bonuses either as the Caldari ships all seem to have the same DPS output level no matter what damage type you put into the launchers/guns. Since all of these apps show the DPS boost other ships get that do have a bonus to a specific damage type(rattle and kinetic/thermal) I have to wonder if this is one of those popular misconceptions, or a relic from times past that is no longer true.

If you or anyone else has a link to any information that would help shed light on this I would appreciate you sharing it. Otherwise, from the available information I would have to surmise that this kinetic damage lock is a fairy tale.

You need to look again
here is list of missiles boat that has kinetic bonus
hawk
Drake
osprey navy issue
Corax
Cerberus
Onyx
Rook
Lugh Crow-Slave
#28 - 2015-06-05 14:24:38 UTC
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Sobaan Tali wrote:
People have been asking for a pass on missiles (or at least certain ones, some more dire than others). This could be CCP's answer. Surely they are not just gonna introduce some TE for missiles and that's it, since that would not be the problem all missiles have, are they? Then again, we can only assume what it will do...we'll have to wait and see if anything comes of it.


Lets all wait for the nerf that mean any missile ship need 2-3 of these modules to get back to where they are now...



this :/

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#29 - 2015-06-05 14:30:57 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Nasar Vyron wrote:
People who think missiles would need to be nerfed to compensate are seriously kidding themselves.


Whether it is necessary or not: people who think CCP would not add new modules to buff missiles without some corresponding kick in the teeth to missiles do not know CCP very well. It's always at least two steps forward, one step back, and often it's one step forward, two steps back.


The stupidest part is how the missile ships are technically in a balanced state right now but will now require additionnal sacrifice to achive what they already do.

Missile boat already use all their slots and are balanced but not you will have to make sacrifice slot wise to get back to where you are application wise while losing raw dps, tank or utility. It's a net loss...
t3hWarrior
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#30 - 2015-06-05 14:37:42 UTC  |  Edited by: t3hWarrior
whoops?
Soldarius
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#31 - 2015-06-05 14:50:29 UTC
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
Unless this comes out paired with an active, scripted mid-slot module, I am against any kind of missile specific TD's.
Why?
Because Caldari ships do not typically have enough low slots to fit these in addition to Ballistic Controls which means that fitting one of these will inherently come at the expense of damage and missile speed. Allowing TD's to effect missiles on the basis of missiles FINALLY getting a specialized application mod would be a huge blunder and, I believe, a masked nerf to missile ships.
In addition to losing damage and missile speed to fit one of these modules, missiles would still be vulnerable to firewalls as well as firing into a pre-repped ship due to flight time.
For these reasons I am currently against TD's affecting missiles. Who's with me?

Also, hopefully this will come with missile tweaks that will fix some of the more... glorious of missile... features(?). *fingers crossed*


Since BCS are stacking penalized (as will be any misisle TE), the loss of dps needs to be more than offset by the increase in application. A small increase in range is not really going to be very useful in most cases.

I recall the last time CCP tried mucking about with missile stats via the modified tracking disruptor, aptly renamed Weapon Disruptor. It flatly did not work. I don't mean it was bad. It just didn't work. At all. Non-functional. Hopefully, someone finally figured out the relevant code.

The stats for range will have to be fairly strong for them to be useful. Like 33% increased range. Because 33% of 20km is not much. They can start by giving heavy missiles another 33% base range.

With application stats CCP will have to be more conservative.

http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
#32 - 2015-06-05 15:50:25 UTC
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Sobaan Tali wrote:
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Sobaan Tali wrote:
People have been asking for a pass on missiles (or at least certain ones, some more dire than others). This could be CCP's answer. Surely they are not just gonna introduce some TE for missiles and that's it, since that would not be the problem all missiles have, are they? Then again, we can only assume what it will do...we'll have to wait and see if anything comes of it.


Lets all wait for the nerf that mean any missile ship need 2-3 of these modules to get back to where they are now...


That's exactly what I'm afraid of happening...and this is exactly what could do just that. Remember freighters?


yes, tried to tell people befor the freighter changes that it would come with some serious nerf to "compensate" for the ability to fit module/rig

If they can add tracking modules without gimping the base stats on missiles it would be a good change. Frig/Cruisers dont realy have the room or need for tracking module and battleship/dread need could use some help with application. Its not like battleships/phoenix are OP with missiles, everyone would be using them so trading tank/dps (low or med slot) for application cant be that OP either :P

Except the freighter "nerf" didnt really happen.
You can get almost same EHP and same cargo with the option to get a lot more of either.

And then there are virtually unkillable JFs with 1 mil ehp...

EvE-Mail me if you need anything.
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#33 - 2015-06-05 16:09:51 UTC
Soldarius wrote:
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:
Unless this comes out paired with an active, scripted mid-slot module, I am against any kind of missile specific TD's.
Why?
Because Caldari ships do not typically have enough low slots to fit these in addition to Ballistic Controls which means that fitting one of these will inherently come at the expense of damage and missile speed. Allowing TD's to effect missiles on the basis of missiles FINALLY getting a specialized application mod would be a huge blunder and, I believe, a masked nerf to missile ships.
In addition to losing damage and missile speed to fit one of these modules, missiles would still be vulnerable to firewalls as well as firing into a pre-repped ship due to flight time.
For these reasons I am currently against TD's affecting missiles. Who's with me?

Also, hopefully this will come with missile tweaks that will fix some of the more... glorious of missile... features(?). *fingers crossed*


Since BCS are stacking penalized (as will be any misisle TE), the loss of dps needs to be more than offset by the increase in application. A small increase in range is not really going to be very useful in most cases.

I recall the last time CCP tried mucking about with missile stats via the modified tracking disruptor, aptly renamed Weapon Disruptor. It flatly did not work. I don't mean it was bad. It just didn't work. At all. Non-functional. Hopefully, someone finally figured out the relevant code.

The stats for range will have to be fairly strong for them to be useful. Like 33% increased range. Because 33% of 20km is not much. They can start by giving heavy missiles another 33% base range.

With application stats CCP will have to be more conservative.

30% for one module is quite significant number
15% is more reasonable in my opinion.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#34 - 2015-06-05 16:18:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
unidenify wrote:

30% for one module is quite significant number
15% is more reasonable in my opinion.


TEs are 10/20
TCs are 15/15


Edit: this is not me saying 30 is to much or 15 is to low just giving reference for others who may have a comment


I'm mostly just worried about what is going to happen to expl rad and vel

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2015-06-05 16:21:34 UTC
I hope they'll be midslot equipment inorder to make shield tankers sacrifice dps for tank, as we armor tankers got to.
unidenify
Deaf Armada
#36 - 2015-06-05 16:24:54 UTC  |  Edited by: unidenify
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
I hope they'll be midslot equipment inorder to make shield tankers sacrifice dps for tank, as we armor tankers got to.


it will never happen

what will happen is that they will swap target painting out for said module

Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
unidenify wrote:

30% for one module is quite significant number
15% is more reasonable in my opinion.


TEs are 10/20
TCs are 15/15


issue is fall-off don/'t mean your turret apply 100% of dps all time
Lugh Crow-Slave
#37 - 2015-06-05 16:27:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
I hope they'll be midslot equipment inorder to make shield tankers sacrifice dps for tank, as we armor tankers got to.



does that mean we can move some utility mods to the lows so you armor tankers have to give up tank for utility as we shield tankers do?


different tanks have different advantages and drawbacks that's what adds choice

BLOPS Hauler
The 16.8km Bubble
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2015-06-05 16:48:01 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
Thank god all my missile ships have an abundance of low slots to play with to fit these.

Oh wait, they're all using BCUs to get a pisspoor paper DPS number....so now I'll be able to apply heehaw DPS. Fantastic. Like a cerberus with 2 BCUs and it's massive 379 Paper DPS.

Unless missiles get a DPS buff across the board. Likely.
Stitch Kaneland
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#39 - 2015-06-05 16:57:50 UTC
First.. yay for missile TE. 2nd.. missile nerfs incoming.

I am hoping the majority of the nerfs affect LM range/application. So as to bring their range down to 30ish km and MAYBE this will reduce some of the garm/orthrus and other kitey missile cancer that is so common nowadays. If garms want to orbit at 50km and missile spam, they will need the missile TE to get back up to prenerf range.

However if they nerf all missiles.. this will make missile ships even weaker. HAM ships for example have fairly low dps, and having to drop a BCU for MTE just to get back to the current normal stats is going to make them even weaker.

I dont think they could make heavies any worse.. but i wont rule it out completely. If they buff heavies, they will need to nerf RHML to compensate. Maybe lose a few missiles per clip if heavies get a damage/application buff.

Cruise might get a minor application nerf. Hopefully they tweak torps a bit and nerf bombers to compensate.

As to the kinetic lock.. you guys do realize that will never change in the t2 variations right? Maybe even some of the t1s. How would t2 gal resist profile look if caldari did omni damage? I for one am tired of gal being master race.. they dont need t2 omni resist profile too.

Gal do mainly therm/kinetic dmg, t2 caldari have resists in mainly therm and kinetic. Caldari do mainly kinetic and some thermal dmg and so gallente have high kinetic and slightly less thermal tank. If caldari suddenly do omni damage, then what do you think will happen to t2 gal resist profile?

Give Battlecruisers range to fullfil their Anti-Cruiser role - OP SUCCESS

Make the Muninn great again!
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#40 - 2015-06-05 17:02:36 UTC
Arya Regnar wrote:
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Sobaan Tali wrote:
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Sobaan Tali wrote:
People have been asking for a pass on missiles (or at least certain ones, some more dire than others). This could be CCP's answer. Surely they are not just gonna introduce some TE for missiles and that's it, since that would not be the problem all missiles have, are they? Then again, we can only assume what it will do...we'll have to wait and see if anything comes of it.


Lets all wait for the nerf that mean any missile ship need 2-3 of these modules to get back to where they are now...


That's exactly what I'm afraid of happening...and this is exactly what could do just that. Remember freighters?


yes, tried to tell people befor the freighter changes that it would come with some serious nerf to "compensate" for the ability to fit module/rig

If they can add tracking modules without gimping the base stats on missiles it would be a good change. Frig/Cruisers dont realy have the room or need for tracking module and battleship/dread need could use some help with application. Its not like battleships/phoenix are OP with missiles, everyone would be using them so trading tank/dps (low or med slot) for application cant be that OP either :P

Except the freighter "nerf" didnt really happen.
You can get almost same EHP and same cargo with the option to get a lot more of either.

And then there are virtually unkillable JFs with 1 mil ehp...


Yout talkin deadspace fit slaved armor freighters can get same EHP and cargo? What about the natural shield tankers that have most of their EHP in shield or structure? A Charon need 3 Cargo Extenders to reach the same cargo space it had before (3 extenders = 200k more cargo, 2 extenders = 40k less)