Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Exactly, see third link in signature.

Do you have any data that would suggest this outcome.

Jump fatigue and your 'PvE fatigue' are not comparable. Even the names give that away.... It's called 'jump fatigue' and not 'PvP fatigue' because the effect is on 'jumping', a tactic within PvP, and not 'PvP' itself. It shouldnt surprise you to see that PvP hasn't declined, while jumping has.

You even call your suggestion 'PvE fatigue': i.e. the scope is PvE in general, rather than a tactic used in PvE. Implementing your "PvE fatigue" will result in less PvE because it's scope is PvE. I thought you were trying to increase activity?

What is / are your goal(s)?
What justifies them?
Do you have anything that would indicate that your suggestion, if implemented, would achieve your goals?

The most successful trader I know about is actually ridiculing the 0.01-adjusting and strongly suggests to not waste one's time doing it. You can read that in his older blog articles.

But okay, if there is a way to attach fatigue to market trading, I am all for it. It could be done via increasing the market fees for updating orders where it happens quite often in short time intervals. This would also affect bots more than it would humans.

Good point, Mr afkalt.

I do not know why you think market trading is pvp when it is the easiest money making activity in eve. Also known as Gevlon Goblin station trades so don't nerf his game play but nerf everyone elses. Please go back to huffing the bad crack you smoke on that ****** blog of yours.

Just let this thread die, whould we? Bad idea, most of us agreed on this. Point.

I agree that diminishing returns are good IF we were discussing ship fittings, but we are not.

If bots are the problem then deal with the bots directly, don't try to do it by introducing a ridiculous idea that affects everyone in the game at some point.

But the real question really is this. If a person wants to spend 15 or 20 hours a day mining or whatever how does that affect you?

The OP idea carefully crafted to only affect a small portion of those involved in PvE activities, but not everyone equally and for this reason alone it is a terrible idea.

So this begs the question how and why are these specific areas left un-affected by this?
Is it because they are the favored play styles of the OP?
Did the OP carefully craft this so it only affects the play styles he does not approve of?

If you want anyone to even give this idea a serious look, much less support it go back to the very beginning and re-work the entire concept so it affects all non-PvP (insert traditional shoot other players ships definition here) equally. Otherwise this is simply an idea to restrict a game play style the OP does not agree with so it will always get a no from me.

No, it is negative sum due to taxes and fees (aka transactions costs). Also, trade is mutually beneficial, so to call it PvP is...kinda odd. If I buy something you are selling that strongly implies I want it enough I'm willing to pay at least the price you are asking or even more and that you don't want it at that price or an even lower one (see the concepts of consumer and producer surpluses).

Further, while trade reduces overall wealth due to taxes and fees and at the same time it changes the distribution of wealth. This is not insignificant either. If the wealth goes from the guy who was ratting to the trader it also moves on from there as well. The trader will want new stock so he'll go to the guys building that stock (builders and inventors and explorers and even in some cases ratters). The inventors and builders will likely go and buy minerals and other inputs as well.

The in-game economy is really a web of activities and the isk flows through this web.

As for the guy ratting 80 hours a week...I'll say it again, I'm sure CCP is aware of those "players" and there is considerable scrutiny of them as 80 hours a week is ratting 11.5 hours a day (on average)...that is alot if the player is doing it day-in-and-day-out.

As for the growth of "wealth" you mention what you really mean is the money supply which is different. ISK does not have any innate value. In fact, ISK is an awesome example of fiat money (money that has value because we are told it has value). Most modern currencies are fiat money in that the innate value of the money is very low or even zero, but people believe it has value therefore it has value and can be used as a medium of exchange. Interestingly, when that belief is challenged is when you have a currency crisis which can lead to things like hyperinflation. Having positive growth of the money supply is not inherently a bad thing; what can be a bad thing is if the money supply grows too fast then you can have inflation and that can be bad. And CCP is aware of the money supply and monitors it. The issue here, if there is one, could be solved via a mechanism suggested here, but it can be managed in other ways as well. For example, reducing rat bounties, reducing anomaly spawn rates, or even more subtle changes such as changes to mechanics that make it easier to hunt and kill ratters.

As I also noted, if CCP felt that ISBoxer and other similar programs were really a serious problem there is a much, much more elegant solution: ban those programs.

Why you feel the need to punish the person who rats a few hours a day (at most) and has an extra account or two is beyond me.

Oh...and one last thing...mining does not increase the money supply either....so its kind of like trading.

Maybe you should think a bit more before posting.

its a good deal for the buyer of the plex that's using his RL money to acquire it to sell, not so much for the people trying to live off of the plex by spending isk on it, which can be any number of reasons.

Trading should have fatigue to since it is PVP going from system to system is quite carebearish or else gankers would be ganking them.

so what after an hour when guns no longer work I would do what, float around, sit at my apartment board as can be?

Lets also not for get while people make billions in incursions, you can hardly get rid of 1 in an hour of play when you render a whole fleet worthless so incursions would end up staying for their full duration forcing people to move out of the region because they don't want to sit there for a week un able to do anything, and also not all incs last their week, most only last a few days, some less then that.

thank before you go and make a lot of play styles obsolete, while I agree and I want to see the army of alts die a horrible fiery death by being slowly dragged into a star (even ccp has a thing about it not advised to run multiple accounts) it isn't going to happen

Something I find fascinating, at least from a sociological viewpoint is that if anyone else had posted this idea it would have received about a page of "This is bad, you're bad, and should feel bad" type responses and then dropped into the void. But because GG posted it, it's run 11 pages and shows no sign of stopping. It's like he has some sort of Bizzaro World cult of personality.

Fascinating.

So typical of you to snip out a very small segment of a post and flat out ignore the most important part.

Yea you know the part where I explicitly defined my use of the term PvP. See quote above.