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Dreads looking for advise

Author
Caligula Gaius Claudian
The Wrong Turn
#1 - 2015-06-02 00:30:52 UTC
Hola!

I'm currently on my path to Dreadnaught class ships, and was looking for all 4. And guess what happened i' m bit of confuse by bonuses each of them provided. Moroi and Nagli are two specialized in dps die to damage and rof bonuses granted. Phoeni with torps probably the most dps deliver per voley vs raw dps Moroi. But in addition to that Phoeni has tank bonus which makes it the tankiest among others. And in the end we have Reveli which is looks like an obsolete to me no matter that lazorz are still magic.

So i wonder which of those are the best in your opinion and from the fleet doctrine ops. And why does Reveli is so backgrounded by ccp with it's bonuses.

Paranoid Loyd
#2 - 2015-06-02 01:00:09 UTC
Whenever you are unsure of the plural of something and think it ends with an i, it doesn't.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!

Iyokus Patrouette
Buccaneers of New Eden
Liquor Legion
#3 - 2015-06-02 01:18:00 UTC
the Naglfar and Moros are the better dreads currently and should be your choice. Swaglfars burst tank is pretty swag.

---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes----

RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#4 - 2015-06-02 02:17:43 UTC
Nag
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2015-06-02 04:01:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiddle Jr
Loyd made that thing even more complicated now.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP

Gh0stBust3rs
Destruction and Pacification Services
#6 - 2015-06-02 05:11:12 UTC
well from a pure damage dps standpoint moros is king. Nag gets selectable damage and better tracking. Rev doesnt really use ammo(Crystals get like 2k shots) but do the least dps and are em thermal only.

Phoenixes are great now if you always want to be the last primary. They have selectable damage and do respectable damage to structures. Makes them great pos bashers now. Need at least 2 faction target painters and 2 faction webs on a target to actually apply damage. Carriers can speed tank torps(I **** you not.)



Ultimately dreads tend to be a good strategic asset and whoever your getting one for will generally have their own opinion. If not get the one you want the most. If they call for dreads to structure bash or nuke a tackled super it wont matter which one your bringing. If they call for blap dreads to drop on a hostile bs fleet and you have a phoenix your not going.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#7 - 2015-06-02 10:11:53 UTC
Moros/Nag are the popular kids. Phoenix are basically great too, but missiles are a lot less handy compared to guns.

A rev is a sad pile of junk, but suitabe for roleplaying amarr characters.
Caligula Gaius Claudian
The Wrong Turn
#8 - 2015-06-02 10:43:19 UTC
So i see Moros and Naglfar are reccomended by majority. But still not sure what's wrong with Revelation abd Phoenix.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#9 - 2015-06-02 11:09:22 UTC
Caligula Gaius Claudian wrote:
So i see Moros and Naglfar are reccomended by majority. But still not sure what's wrong with Revelation abd Phoenix.


Rev is bad as in, it sucks at doing dread things like hitting hard or having insane local tank. The Phoenix is good or even great in my opinion atleast, just that you can't do a blapfit without compromising either tank or capacitor size.

Maybe take a setp back and checking what they're used for
K-space: Big guns that run sort of suicide attacks. Important is max dps, buffer, the ability to get back to jumpcap over a siege cycle. (Moros/Nag do not use application rigs, while the phoenix does need them to apply to subcaps) Phoenixes are also limited in range, quite abruptly theere dps drops to nothing beyond ~45-50km. Moros/Nag don't care.
The Rev is the oddball since it has very decent range, but insufficient damage and getting back up to jumpcap can be a bit more tricky while firing lazors.
W-Space: Everything is shieldtanked unless you're going into a 30v30 dreadbrawl (at which point trimarks become attractive). Local shieldtanks easily go beyond 30k ehp/s cold, and you fit for max cap buffer to boost through a siegecycle (then you leave siege and get capped up by a carrier again, this goes surprisingly quick since you refit to cap flux coils). Rev has crap damage and cap issues in an environment consisting of bhaalgorns, neut legions and similar nightmares for your dread. Phoenixes are underwhelming if they park their dreads 55k next to you. Moros/Nag don't care.

It's really hard to say if the moros or nag is generally better. The nag is more flexible, the moros is the *better* dread due to beter offenses. Phoenix is all but bad, but situational and will encounter both scenarios in which it massively outperforms the other two aswell as situations where bringing a phoenix was a derp move.
Caligula Gaius Claudian
The Wrong Turn
#10 - 2015-06-02 11:17:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Caligula Gaius Claudian
Well thx Lloyd for detailed feedback. I rather think once again which one or two to train into.

But i'm sure most of the time i' am going to be in wh keeling sleepers but in the meantime we might have interface with hosfile visitors from time to time which means i have go think both pve and pvp.
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-06-02 13:17:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Haatakan Reppola
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Phoenixes are underwhelming if they park their dreads 55k next to you. Moros/Nag don't care.


How many Moros+Naglfar do you think a Phoenix can tank if they park 55km away? It may not be able to kill them but it wont die either, just warp away and land closer :P

EDIT: Almost forgot the most important thing, Phoenix dont need range rigs to hit a target thats 55km away and still does same dps as it would at point blank :P
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2015-06-02 15:44:37 UTC
It's sad that no one uses the Revelation...
Sequester Risalo
German Corps of Engineers 17
Federation of Respect Honor Passion Alliance.
#13 - 2015-06-03 13:30:01 UTC
Came expecting to see -locks or -naughts looking for advice.

Left disappointed.
Caligula Gaius Claudian
The Wrong Turn
#14 - 2015-06-03 13:38:29 UTC
TBH reading all the advises i see that Phoenix is more flexible from the range pov and tanking ability.
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#15 - 2015-06-03 21:42:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Haatakan Reppola
Caligula Gaius Claudian wrote:
TBH reading all the advises i see that Phoenix is more flexible from the range pov and tanking ability.


Phoenix got a realy good tank, 100% selectable dmg and good dmg.The dps is on pair with other dreads, about the same as Naglfar and less than Moros. The problem it have is that it need rigs for more range or better application (not counting web/TP), and that missiles dmg is delayed and it can be firewalled.
Not to mention than gun dreads have an easier time when shooting subcaps :P
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#16 - 2015-06-04 05:34:10 UTC
Gh0stBust3rs wrote:
Ultimately dreads tend to be a good strategic asset and whoever your getting one for will generally have their own opinion. If not get the one you want the most. If they call for dreads to structure bash or nuke a tackled super it wont matter which one your bringing. If they call for blap dreads to drop on a hostile bs fleet and you have a phoenix your not going.


I thought a rigor cruise pheonix could like volley battleships, and if you are calling in blap dreds I would expect it to already be webbed/painted. Then again with turret blap dreads in gang, it might have already gotten volleyed before the missiles hit.

Looking at it in EFT a 690 explosion radius isn't really all that bad, surprisingly not much bigger than a rage torp from a battleship. gets down to 612 with strong crash and a 5% explosion radius implant.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

O'nira
Litla Sundlaugin
#17 - 2015-06-06 21:10:44 UTC
Moros is best for pve, good for pvp worse tank than the others and is stuck to kin/therm wich can be a problem

Nag is good for pve and probably the best overall pvp dread and it has great tank and somewhat selectable damage

Phoenix is **** at pve and good for pvp and has the best tank, you need to kinda fit it for either subcap pvp or capital pvp and if you go into the right situation with it is the best pvp dread but if people drop capitals on you in your subcap blap fit then you are gonna have a bad time.

Rev is not good for anything and if you train it you are pretty much just betting on ccp fixing it later.
Caligula Gaius Claudian
The Wrong Turn
#18 - 2015-06-08 07:45:30 UTC
So Naglfar is the right choice, hearing lot of positive feedback. And Phoenix right after that.

Thanks for advises.