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Navy slicer is poop or awesome?
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Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2015-05-29 16:34:20 UTC
Terianna Eri wrote:
I see what Demerius Xenocratus is saying and I think he does have a point. He's not saying that the Slicer isn't a very strong kiting ship - it is. But what he's getting at is that it's good almost only for kiting, and that in frigate PVP that can be a disadvantage, both in the number and type of fights you might get.

Which seems fair. Frigates, in my experience, are pretty good at avoiding fights they don't want to commit to (even against other frigates), so it stands to reason that if you're flying a ship with a predictable fit and strategy, you can end up fighting primarily ships that are strong against you, because the ones that are weak to you already decided not to engage. While this is cool if you want a challenge, it does make it a little less likely to get fights in general.

That said it's still pretty good at getting fights, especially in null where everyone fits an MWD and therefore which means pretty much any frigate has a shot at catching it, and where kiting setups are (I think) more prevalent in general.

I fly the slicer a decent amount and what Chessur is way, way, way better than me at doing is the manual piloting that helps you stay on the field against stuff that should force a slicer away, and knowing when to pull in close to get the kill without getting caught and blapped. I think the hard thing about actually getting kills in a slicer is that when you operate on the edge of point range, against frigates, it's tricky to keep the other guy from timing a good overheat cycle and warping off.

Overall it's a very strong ship, if pretty predictable (though you can mix it up with beams). It's tricky enough to fly and easy enough to catch / get away from that enough ships have a shot of killing it that it's still good at getting fights, as opposed to something like, say, a Curse, which a substantial number of ships simply can't engage solo.



Basically, the tendency of fights in FW to revolve around complex acceleration gates combined with the sheer number of players with massive experience in frigate warfare make it a tough ship to use in FW. It does one thing really really well, which unfortunately is a weakness in itself under particular circumstance.

That being said, I still love the damn thing. It is in my opinion the best looking ship in the game, all the more perfect because of its singular purpose - to scream through space at 4 kilometers per second unleashing scorching death from those predatory talons.

I recognize that objectively the comet is a better ship, but flying one just doesn't feel the same.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2015-05-29 16:37:53 UTC
13kr1d1 wrote:
I think this is a troll thread.

Most people use it to kite because its incredibly good and it lacks the three mids required for close range. The hull design would've been for being able to plate up heavily, to have a great frontline brawler that isn't slow as mud, but this design has been exploited much better in creating kite stuff.

Once CCP gets off their duff and recognizes that all ships need a minimum of 3 midslots, or that there needs to be some common options to deal with kites, we will see more brawl slicers appear because kiting won't be king.

The massive lows, the optimal bonus, and the ship agility/mass could've been designed to create a brawler that is plated heavily and uses -50% range ammo to achieve high damage and high defense in the thick of it, and I believe that was the original intent, however, with kiting being much less risky, and with the ship's abilities also working well for kiting, that's what it's used for.

Honestly if it were me, I'd be designing all ships to have a minimum of 4 mids for armor tanks, 4 lows for shield tanks, and then +1 in the tank section, to allow a reasonable selection of cap batteries, cap boosters, ewar or ewar support, etc.

Who ever uses small cap batteries? Nerf the fitting requirements of them heavily, down to about 3:2, then add a midslot, suddenly people will start using them. Most small/micro stuff doesn't get used because there isn't enough slots. I suppose if you min/maxed some ship and only had 3 pg and 10 cpu left, a micro shield/cap boost or a 50mm plate would do it, but these would be very rare fits because there has to be some synergy for that empty mid/low to be effective fitted with a minor improvement. At the same time, the ability to fit such minor improvements would be great for EvE because fine tuning ships leads to more consistently equal fights. That's why I approve of more mids for armor tanks and more lows for shield tanks.

What I might then do is cut the CPU and/or PG a tiny bit for ships, to force some downgrading from 200-400mm plate to 100mm, or the use of upgrade rigs or mods to achieve fitting that much armor.


While this is a nice fantasy, giving the slicer 3 mids on top of 5 low slots would make it hideously overpowered. I HAVE done surprise fits with AB + scram or web + scram and I can attest that a brawl slicer can fit a stupid good tank.
Gully Alex Foyle
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2015-05-29 18:01:27 UTC
Slicer is good.

You can try to scram it, but while you're chasing it it will apply lots of dps.

When scrammed, it will apply even more dps unless you have a web or ab to build up angular velocity.

Nastiest counter is a tracking disrupter.

Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter!
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2015-05-29 18:29:42 UTC
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Slicer is good.

You can try to scram it, but while you're chasing it it will apply lots of dps.

When scrammed, it will apply even more dps unless you have a web or ab to build up angular velocity.

Nastiest counter is a tracking disrupter.


Sadly, the squids in Black Rise will dock up and dig out their TD condors as soon as they see a slicer on dscan.

I have won fights where I messed up and got scrammed though; always carry imperial navy multifrequency crystals as you can switch to it instantly and it doesn't have the tracking penalties of the T2 crystals. Very possible to murder MWD scram fits especially if they took heavy damage on approach.

I see Chessur likes beam slicers; I've been wanting to try one but there were no beams for sale in the FW zone last I looked.

Be my hero and ship a boatload of slicer fittings to Vlill.
Black Panpher
CastleKickers
Rote Kapelle
#25 - 2015-05-29 20:55:22 UTC
d0cTeR9 wrote:
Navy Slicer and Navy Comet are really good ship.

The first a very fast kiter with good dps, and the second a monster dps brawler.


Been destroying navy comets with all kinds of t1 ships even a rifter that still hasn't lost. Blink
Moac Tor
Cyber Core
Immediate Destruction
#26 - 2015-05-29 22:17:59 UTC
Being specialised is no disadvantage when a ship is good at what its meant to do; the skill is in using that ship to its strengths. FW complexes are a small part of eve combat for new players to get accustomed to shooting on another. You can't write off a ship simply because people won't warp to you while your sitting there waiting for them in a plex, eve combat is much more involved than that.
BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#27 - 2015-05-30 12:45:48 UTC
Poop OR Awesome?

Poop IS Awesome...


Well at least taking one is...
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2015-06-02 10:56:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiddle Jr
Slicer was my first faction ship ever purchased and it was back in the days it costs 30-35m
Even at that price it was awesome.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
So San
Suddenly taken over
#29 - 2015-06-02 12:28:41 UTC
Like any ship in eve it come down to the pilot.

I think its awesome.
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