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Burst Target Spectrum Breaker and High Slot Point

Author
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-05-31 15:50:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
I was thinking about how some folks use the ECM burst module to evade capture when mid slots is what you have available to work with, and also how the target spectrum breaker module doesn't see a lot of use (I think it'd be more popular on command ships, for one), and I came up with a cool module idea:


Burst Target Spectrum Breaker:
You keep the module off most of the time, much like an ECM burst, and when you activate the module it attempts to scramble any target locks anyone may have on you. It uses ECM mechanics to determine success but does not jam anyone, rather it merely disallows them from re-targeting you for 20 seconds. They are free to target someone else instead. It would have unlimited range, anyone targeting yellow-boxing you could be affected by the module. 30s cooldown just like ECM burst, and drains a lot of capacitor to activate. Anyone targeting you through the use of a passive targeter would not be affected by the module.

I'm not sure what amount of jam strength would be good, so that can be discussed.

This would be useful for using your mid slots to fend off gate camps (good for armor tankers), and would not give you criminal status within empire space if you break someone's lock on you while out of combat, so it'll help you avoid gate guns when flying through lowsec, or getting concordokkened if you go to highsec.




Since I have a thread about new modules, I figured I might as well crowdsource here instead of making a new thread for one module.

The high slot point module would be a type of capacitor warfare module which would drain some of the target's capacitor, but more importantly would increase their capacitor cost of warping by an additive amount. For example, if it increased their capacitor cost to warp by 100 Gj, then they would need at least 100 Gj in their capacitor to even initiate warp.

I'm thinking this module would drain the target's capacitor about the same rate as a Nosferatu, except rather than giving the capacitor to the user, the user would spend the same amount of capacitor to run the module. As for the amount of capacitor required to warp, I'm not sure what would be a good amount. One idea I had is to make it a percentage of the target's signature radius (say, 100%), so you could increase this amount either by using more of this module or by using target painters. It would also balance capacitor costs somewhat by ship size. If a battleship uses a large high slot point on a frigate with a 40m sig radius, it might drain that frigate's capacitor by 100 Gj per 10 seconds and also require the frigate to have at least 40 Gj to enter warp. If the frigate gets capped out, it still may regenerate to 40 within 10 seconds, or it may use a capacitor booster to get there. This makes this module less effective overall as a warp inhibitor, leaving that role to the mid slot warp disruptors, but adds an alternative to ships that have very few mid slots or otherwise can't afford to give one up.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#2 - 2015-05-31 16:06:01 UTC
I would say an 8.0 Base would be fair for the module, but really the issue with that module was that it could only be fitted to a handful of ships that dont see excessive use of the module, if any.

Opening the module up to say anything BC or larger with some specific hulls benefiting from it such as command ships, black ops, marauders, etc. Though this module on capitals could be a bit wonky

Of course does this factor player locks exclusively or drone locks as well? Because if it favors drone locks this could be an interesting counter to sentry drone dependent fleets by forcing drones to lose their lock on the primary and shift / split DPS or simply go idle until receiving a new command. This adds up to less alpha and therefore more staying power for the defender which everyone benefits from.

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

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Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2015-05-31 18:14:30 UTC
I don't see why the target spectrum breaker can't just be opened up to all subcapital ships, after all it's the larger ships that will use it most anyway.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Christopher Mabata
Northern Accounts and Systems
#4 - 2015-05-31 19:00:09 UTC
Exactly, its just an arbitrary barrier erected for no specific reason, i honestly think it is the least used, purchased, or manufactured item in EvE right now

♣ Small Gang PVP, Large Fleet PVP, Black Ops, Incursions, Trade, and Industry ♣ 70% Lethal / 30% Super-Snuggly / 110% No idea what im doing ♣

This Message Brought to you by a sweet and sour bittervet

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-06-01 02:25:19 UTC
Added high slot point to OP, not sure what to call it.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#6 - 2015-06-01 03:01:30 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Added high slot point to OP, not sure what to call it.

Really?
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
I was thinking about how some folks use the ECM burst module to evade capture when mid slots is what you have available to work with, and also how the target spectrum breaker module doesn't see a lot of use (I think it'd be more popular on command ships, for one), and I came up with a cool module idea:


Burst Target Spectrum Breaker:
You keep the module off most of the time, much like an ECM burst, and when you activate the module it attempts to scramble any target locks anyone may have on you. It uses ECM mechanics to determine success but does not jam anyone, rather it merely disallows them from re-targeting you for 20 seconds. They are free to target someone else instead. It would have unlimited range, anyone targeting yellow-boxing you could be affected by the module. 30s cooldown just like ECM burst, and drains a lot of capacitor to activate. Anyone targeting you through the use of a passive targeter would not be affected by the module.

I'm not sure what amount of jam strength would be good, so that can be discussed.

This would be useful for using your mid slots to fend off gate camps (good for armor tankers), and would not give you criminal status within empire space if you break someone's lock on you while out of combat, so it'll help you avoid gate guns when flying through lowsec, or getting concordokkened if you go to highsec.
That update might have gotten lost, since you only updated the title and not the main text within the post. Bolded/underlined them for your viewing pleasure. ;)

Remote ECM Burst (can only fit on supercarriers) is a high-slot item; Spectrum Target Breaker (can only fit on t1/t2 battleships) is a mid-slot item. Even Remote ECM Burst has a range of 150,000 meters, so making this new module have unlimited range and not be high-slot module? Sounds a bit overpowered to me, but what do I know?
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-06-01 03:16:16 UTC
DetKhord Saisio wrote:
That update might have gotten lost, since you only updated the title and not the main text within the post. Bolded/underlined them for your viewing pleasure. ;)

Remote ECM Burst (can only fit on supercarriers) is a high-slot item; Spectrum Target Breaker (can only fit on t1/t2 battleships) is a mid-slot item. Even Remote ECM Burst has a range of 150,000 meters, so making this new module have unlimited range and not be high-slot module? Sounds a bit overpowered to me, but what do I know?

It's showing correctly on my screen, might just take some more time to update. The high slot point I suggested is a module that boosts the capacitor requirement for activating warp by a flat-rate amount, so if they don't have that much capacitor, they can't enter warp. Then it also acts as a weak energy neutralizer.


The Target Spectrum Breaker module disrupts others' attempts to target you and keep you targeted, with a greater chance of disruption the more people there are targeting you. If a large fleet of battleships equipped with these fought another large fleet, the opponent fleet would be forced to split up the DPS to multiple ships at a time in order to maintain targeting.

My proposed Burst Target Spectrum Breaker operates regardless of how many people are targeting you and instead on the sensor strength of anyone targeting you. As for its infinite range, its range is technically limited to however far away someone else can target you. I believe the TSB is the same way, and it's not overpowered because it's a passive module that cannot be used to aggress someone else.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."

Luscius Uta
#8 - 2015-06-01 11:13:02 UTC
Burst Target Spectrum Breaker seems interesting, a nice mixture of ECM Burst and Target Spectrum Breaker. Since those two modules aren't broken, I don't think your module will be either.
The high-slot point idea I don't like so much. Fit a standard point if you want to prevent the enemy from warping, and if they burn out of its range and enter warp, blame yourself.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.

Samillian
Angry Mustellid
#9 - 2015-06-01 12:57:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Samillian
Burst Target Spectrum Breaker:

I'm not onboard with this for a start. I don't like the idea of something with not only unlimited range and the ability to disrupt multiple ships but is also penalty less (which strikes me as out of kilter with the way every other ECM module is treated) combine this with stabs and it look like a get out of jail free card.

Fitting options already exist for escape and evasion are more actually needed?

High Slot Point:

Just how powerful would this need to be considering the minimal amount of cap warping takes? Or are you considering changing the capacitor requirements for warp in order to make this work? That would be opening a can of worms in and of itself.

As it stands at the moment reducing a ships cap to the point that it can't warp requires it to be virtually drained which you would need to do not only in a single cycle but at the beginning of that cycle for this to be of any use as a tackle module.

It seems to me that for this to work effectively you are proposing a module that will not only stop a ship warping but will (as a side effect) reduce cap to a level that shuts down most if not all cap dependent modules at the end of there cycle in the process.

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law

Kashadin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-06-01 13:42:25 UTC
Right now there is no "minimal needed" cap for a warp, the cap used for a warp is based on distance and ship, if you don't have enough cap to make it, you just come out of warp early. Granted ships that use less cap to warp are better off when going into a fight, but when it comes to escaping being neuted out has actually helped me out once because it turned out they had a ceptor at the planet that I was warping to, but my cap was too low to let me warp all the way so i ended up in a "safe' spot till my cap could recharge.