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How would you return capital ships to their glory days?

Author
Garrett Howe
New Eden Shipbuilding
#1 - 2015-05-22 23:43:48 UTC
With capitals now a bit irrelevant for grinding sov, what would you change about them to make them worth the cost and train time?
joecuster
Anime Masters
#2 - 2015-05-22 23:45:52 UTC
Nothing, this post is bad and you should feel bad
Garrett Howe
New Eden Shipbuilding
#3 - 2015-05-22 23:48:17 UTC
joecuster wrote:
Nothing, this post is bad and you should feel bad

It's funny, because I've heard a lot of people say capitals are useless now, so I'm not sure what I'm wrong about. The devs like to hear suggestions from players, so who's to say someone has an idea that the devs might find interesting (like the change to the Jackdaw the other day).
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#4 - 2015-05-23 00:17:33 UTC
Capitals aren't useless because they can still be used to escalate the fleet fights. They just aren't needed for structure bashing, which actually frees them up more for fleet fighting since they aren't burnt out from weeks of structure bashing.
Panty Stocking
Doomheim
#5 - 2015-05-23 00:28:30 UTC
blockade devices. a capital only "beam" that limits the number/time people may jump through gates, countered by a different module on the other side, putting capital gatecamps on both sides of a gate just to let reasonable sized gangs through. must be used in siege or triage mode, or a similar mode to make the ships immobile but ready for a slugmatch.
Nasar Vyron
S0utherN Comfort
#6 - 2015-05-23 00:43:39 UTC
Carriers:
-Nothing

Dreads:
-Massive base tracking/exp velocity bonus to buff capital weapon systems
-Massive penalty to tracking/exp velocity while in siege to counter balance.
-Return of the drone bay, treated like Triage and cannot control while in siege

Titans:
-Read above for change to capital weapon rework
-Significantly reduce damage of DD, allow it to target and chain between sub capitals
-Attach massive boost to boosting capabilities

Supers:
-Larger drone bay to carry multiple squadrons of fighters
-Lose the 200% damage bonus
-Lose EWAR immunity
---Replaced with base +10 warp core strength
-Super fighters can be fit with a single utility mid or high slot module, and up to 3 tank modules
---Web/Neut/ECM/Damp/Scram(only prevents MWD/MJD)
-Super fighters can be loaded with proper weapon/rep and munitions
---T1, T2, and faction variants based on weapon system equip
---Remote Rep disables weapon systems.

Dreads:
-Massive base tracking/exp velocity bonus to buff capital weapon systems
-Massive penalty to tracking/exp velocity while in siege to counter balance.

Carriers:
-Nothing



But of course none of this will ever happen because CCP is happy with cruisers online and there are far too many whiny bitches out there who want to see those of us to spent the time on money getting into these behemoths sit and watch our investments go to waste. They aren't even willing to roll out new T2 BS to try and close the power gap between sub capitals and capitals which would finally allow for buffs like the ones I mentioned to be implemented without seeming overpowered.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#7 - 2015-05-23 03:14:24 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Capitals aren't useless because they can still be used to escalate the fleet fights. They just aren't needed for structure bashing, which actually frees them up more for fleet fighting since they aren't burnt out from weeks of structure bashing.



this ^

we have used caps in LS for years and very little of that time was used to grind a POS


Carriers are great at reping sub caps and dreads are the carriers counter (assuming you have the nuet support from subcaps)


capitals do not need to change it is the suppers that are losing a big part of their use
Garrett Howe
New Eden Shipbuilding
#8 - 2015-05-23 03:16:39 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Capitals aren't useless because they can still be used to escalate the fleet fights. They just aren't needed for structure bashing, which actually frees them up more for fleet fighting since they aren't burnt out from weeks of structure bashing.



this ^

we have used caps in LS for years and very little of that time was used to grind a POS


Carriers are great at reping sub caps and dreads are the carriers counter (assuming you have the nuet support from subcaps)


capitals do not need to change it is the suppers that are losing a big part of their use

I've always considered supercapitals as capitals, but I suppose they are different. What needs to change about supers then?
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-05-23 03:24:36 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Capitals aren't useless because they can still be used to escalate the fleet fights. They just aren't needed for structure bashing, which actually frees them up more for fleet fighting since they aren't burnt out from weeks of structure bashing.



this ^

we have used caps in LS for years and very little of that time was used to grind a POS


Carriers are great at reping sub caps and dreads are the carriers counter (assuming you have the nuet support from subcaps)


capitals do not need to change it is the suppers that are losing a big part of their use


SC and Titans are not a good counter to Dreads and Carriers?

Dont compare 100 Dreads to a single Titan or SC, compare close to equal numbers. Dropping 10x Dreads on a few Titans or SC does not mean its badly balanced, but when you need a very clear number advantage to even consider dropping them we can assume the capital power chain goes like this: Carrier < Dreadnought < SC/Titan < Dreadnought blob < SC/Titan blob
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2015-05-23 12:19:16 UTC
This post contains no idea nor feature...
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#11 - 2015-05-23 15:25:08 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
This post contains no idea nor feature...

True, but it does open another place for those vested in these ships to discuss how to make better use of them in the current game.
So if you want to be the wet blanket at the party I suggest you report this as redundant, or better yet just refrain from posting if you have no ideas or counters to add to the debate.

I have minimal cap ship experiences but those players I know that have them are getting far more use out of them now then they did in the past. With jump fatigue they have less worry about being dropped on by an anti capital mob so they are more willing to un-dock them and use them for something other than large fleet fights. So maybe there is a degree of what you want to do with your cap that is a part of this as well.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#12 - 2015-05-24 11:11:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
Haatakan Reppola wrote:


SC and Titans are not a good counter to Dreads and Carriers?

Dont compare 100 Dreads to a single Titan or SC, compare close to equal numbers. Dropping 10x Dreads on a few Titans or SC does not mean its badly balanced, but when you need a very clear number advantage to even consider dropping them we can assume the capital power chain goes like this: Carrier < Dreadnought < SC/Titan < Dreadnought blob < SC/Titan blob


true but for most of us who can or are in a group who can afford SC/Titans we generally have enough people to go the wrought of more ships rather than bigger ships.


meaning in most cases you only drop a supper carrier when you feel relatively safe and a titan is only used on field if you hit the wrong button or you know you are in a good spot.


however i don't feel to much needs to change with the supper carrier as it does still fulfill the role of anti capital very well

and you could argue that titans are only meant to be used for very large battles in an anti cap/supper cap role

however since ccp wants to push people away from large battles and spread them out into many smaller ones a tittan loses a lot of its uses since the DD sticks it in place making it in-ideal for a fight with the few capitals needed to support a small fleet

Supper carriers are a good counter to dreads/carriers but titans only counter blobs of such things and that is what CCP seems to be trying to limit
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#13 - 2015-05-27 06:22:11 UTC
Garrett Howe wrote:
joecuster wrote:
Nothing, this post is bad and you should feel bad

It's funny, because I've heard a lot of people say capitals are useless now, so I'm not sure what I'm wrong about. The devs like to hear suggestions from players, so who's to say someone has an idea that the devs might find interesting (like the change to the Jackdaw the other day).


What exactly is useless about a ship if the enemy can't defeat it?
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#14 - 2015-05-27 07:58:29 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:


If you can field a large enough dreadnough fleet do that, fielding a large enough titan/sc fleet takes alot less people + they can get repaired by other ships (triage carrier out of range from enemy dread fleet will do wonders for SC/Titan survivability)
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#15 - 2015-05-27 08:33:10 UTC
Garrett Howe wrote:
joecuster wrote:
Nothing, this post is bad and you should feel bad

It's funny, because I've heard a lot of people say capitals are useless now, so I'm not sure what I'm wrong about. The devs like to hear suggestions from players, so who's to say someone has an idea that the devs might find interesting (like the change to the Jackdaw the other day).


I will be happy to take any and all capitals and give them a good home.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#16 - 2015-05-27 08:44:56 UTC
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:


If you can field a large enough dreadnough fleet do that, fielding a large enough titan/sc fleet takes alot less people + they can get repaired by other ships (triage carrier out of range from enemy dread fleet will do wonders for SC/Titan survivability)



i didn't say that they were becoming useless or that they had no more use in a fleet



the problem comes in the type of fights that CCP is trying to build the game to force (smaller more spread out) that make it harder for them to see use as well as removing a large part of what they are used for (structure grinding)
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#17 - 2015-05-27 11:02:42 UTC
You mean like the recent S2N super losses that came from an escalating fleet fight that went all the way up to titans being dropped? That was a 'smaller' spread out fight that moved across multiple systems with capitals & supers both using gates and jump engines for mobility.
Seems to me plenty of cap use will still occur as long as the sub cap meta allows escalation to BS's, since then caps naturally play in the chain of escalation.
Discomanco
We pooped on your lawn
#18 - 2015-05-27 13:26:10 UTC
By posting in the long thread already that's 12 pages behind
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=413657&find=unread
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#19 - 2015-05-27 16:58:26 UTC
With creative fits to leverage their massive EHP, high damage and local tank potential and Ewar immunity to hold entosis grids against all comers, making it very hard to kill them off grid, and impossible to jam them out.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#20 - 2015-05-27 17:39:57 UTC
Stop super production. Let them fade away with grace.

For every capital on grid above 30 - one of them randomly explodes every 2 minutes until there are 30 or less on grid.

You can scoff all you want, but getting beyond the personal level and looking at the big picture - both ideas are pure awsomeness.

Every super that dies never to be replaced would be one less dude whining on the forums about the flying coffing he willingly chose to hop into. The please let me dock mantra of a 100 angsty 5yr olds would diminish to silence.

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