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New tutorials for new players
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Pimpinaint Easy
Samurai Strike Force
#1 - 2015-05-22 07:50:03 UTC
A few of my co-workers (3 in total) attempted to try eve as a group. It didn't go well, and ultimately failed. They quit and when I asked why? "it's too complicated" is what each one echoed.

I'm sure CCP has heard this countless times before, but I'd suggest setting up some kind of enhanced tutorial with it's own staging area. I've been in this game for practically 10 years now, and it's hasn't gotten much better in that regard.. better but not enough. The barrier to entry is still too high. Eve isn't for everyone, I've heard this many times, but it seems like Eve is for the very few.. and frankly, it's a little surprising that Eve survives to this day. Sorry if that sounds like a rant, not meant to be.

An idea would be to hide away some of the more complex parts of the game, and gradually expose them over time, or at key points of a tutorial. My introduction to the game was, day 1 dragged to null sec, given a ship and blown up within about an hour and I knew this was the game for me.. Today's Minecraft fed masses aren't so forgiving..

Another note, the sandbox does seem so much smaller now than its ever been.

-P-
Syna Anima
SYNDAX CORPORATION
#2 - 2015-05-22 11:36:15 UTC
Yes, it's pretty bad.

But I think part of the problem is the game design, it's simply unique in it's approach and since there are very few games like this one, most people that try it have no idea what to do. So they quit.

I think CCP should do a dedicated tutorial where players start in character mode, learning about the game in some way in that mode so it's more familiar to them (third person games), then slowly introduce the spaceships part. Starting in space in that ship with some red dots is so alien to 99% of players they just quit. It's nice eye candy, but gives 0 sense of direction and you feel lost.

But on the other side, once you understand the game you are addicted for life, 8 years here. But I had to try like 2-3 times before I finally understood what the hell this game is about.

I think walk in station was a failed approach, they should do a walk in station ONLY as a tutorial to last for 5-10 hours with some occasional space parts, maybe add a "story" of sorts to get introduced in the game, that will intrigue most people and they would give the game more chances. Then the end game would be only spaceships and 0.0 like now.

But this will never happen. Also not sure if that would improve player retention, since the game is only about spaceships, so you might have people quit after the tutorial since they would not like the "space" mode.

★ Join us today! ★
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#3 - 2015-05-22 11:49:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Solecist
Why didn't you help them ?

Why are there thousands of people who did not have issues ?

Why does the game have to be made easier for those who simply
are unable to deal with what THOUSANDS OF OTHERS have no problem with ??

WHY does everyone blame the game when it's OBVIOUS it's not the game's fault,
because THOUSANDS of people did not need it EASY ??

What if it's not too hard, but they simply aren't made for it ????

What if there is no "too hard" and only a "not willing to try harder" ??

Why does no one consider that these people simply aren't smart enough ???

Why do people ignore natural selection and that those who are weak
should be filtered out like it has been for millenia ???

Why do the smart have to be punished because those who aren't
need to be protected from their own failures ???
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Zeewolf 46137
Saor Alba
#4 - 2015-05-22 11:57:08 UTC
Lets go back to the good old days, when the tutorial was 'This is a rock, mine it' and 'This is a ship, shoot it' and that was it. No free skills, no free ships.
Thuul'Khalat
Phoenix Wing
#5 - 2015-05-22 11:59:13 UTC
Zeewolf 46137 wrote:
Lets go back to the good old days, when the tutorial was 'This is a rock, mine it' and 'This is a ship, shoot it' and that was it. No free skills, no free ships.


This.

The new NPE just makes it more complicated.

Just add a third segment.

"This is a bigger ship, it just popped you. This will happen a lot in the future."

Phoenix Wing is recruiting a handfull skilled pilots for Null/LowSec PVP!
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#6 - 2015-05-22 12:05:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Solecist
Thuul'Khalat wrote:
Zeewolf 46137 wrote:
Lets go back to the good old days, when the tutorial was 'This is a rock, mine it' and 'This is a ship, shoot it' and that was it. No free skills, no free ships.


This.

The new NPE just makes it more complicated.

Just add a third segment.

"This is a bigger ship, it just popped you. This will happen a lot in the future."


Exactly !

Games aren't being learned properly on easy,
they are being learned properly at MEDIUM at least !

Try harder or gtfo !
That was nature's way for hundreds of MILLENIA !
It was EVEs was for almost a decade !

The easier things are being made,
the less people need to think and try !

Protecting people from failures ends in people never needing to improve !

Why are smart people who love challenges punished
because of the weak people who can't deal with reality ??
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#7 - 2015-05-22 12:12:46 UTC
The NPE is pretty horrid, but as stated it's still far better than it used to be.
I'm not in favor of dumbing the game down at all, as it's difficulty does serve as a filter for many who simply aren't suited for it.
What I would like to see, however, is a tutorial mission that actually shows players how to use D-Scan. Probe scanning is nice, but unless you're exploring or hunting people it's far less useful than the directional scan is.
Yes, I'm still a lil grumpy about learning how to scan YEARS after I started playing the game. I'm slow, I admit it.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#8 - 2015-05-22 12:19:50 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
The NPE is pretty horrid, but as stated it's still far better than it used to be.
I'm not in favor of dumbing the game down at all, as it's difficulty does serve as a filter for many who simply aren't suited for it.
What I would like to see, however, is a tutorial mission that actually shows players how to use D-Scan. Probe scanning is nice, but unless you're exploring or hunting people it's far less useful than the directional scan is.
Yes, I'm still a lil grumpy about learning how to scan YEARS after I started playing the game. I'm slow, I admit it.

But you did it.

You don't needed your hand held.

Are you a genius ?
Are we all geniuses ?

What does this say about those who need it easier ??
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Avaelica Kuershin
Paper Cats
#9 - 2015-05-22 12:20:11 UTC
Omar Alharazaad wrote:
The NPE is pretty horrid, but as stated it's still far better than it used to be.
I'm not in favor of dumbing the game down at all, as it's difficulty does serve as a filter for many who simply aren't suited for it.
What I would like to see, however, is a tutorial mission that actually shows players how to use D-Scan. Probe scanning is nice, but unless you're exploring or hunting people it's far less useful than the directional scan is.
Yes, I'm still a lil grumpy about learning how to scan YEARS after I started playing the game. I'm slow, I admit it.


And Overview Tabs. It was only through the Eve-Uni site I learnt how to set up a sensible overview with multiple tabs. The tutorial I recall told me to add Large Collidable Objects, but that was all.
Omar Alharazaad
New Eden Tech Support
#10 - 2015-05-22 12:28:26 UTC
I did learn. Thankfully I had some mentors help me out with it combined with a need to learn as a survival mechanism.
I am not a genius. I once was, but I smoked and drank until this was no longer so.
Now the noise in my head is much more manageable.
Drawbacks ensue, such as rampant and erratic derping when I should know better, but worth it.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#11 - 2015-05-22 12:31:01 UTC
You tried. Wasn't their thing. They can count themselves lucky having atleast SEEN Eve thanks to you :)

The reason I got into EVE myself is because I had to do so much research. I've fallen for every scam, dirty trick and sneaky tactic out there. One might say I'm terrible at this game. Its still the only game out there challenging me. (I tried Dwarven Fortress btw)

But all that stuff being possible and all the new stuff you learn every day.... +1

If you want to introduce new people to EVE I'd suggest limiting yourself to people with the following characteristics:

1. Sci-Fi fan -> spaceships, lasers, railguns, warp
2. Intelligent -> complicated world populated by very complex machines (humans)
3. Patient -> Setting things up and getting what you want may take time
4. Persevering -> there's no "save" button or respawnpoint.
5. Emotionally stable -> Only friends are friendly and even those can be spies and awoxers.
6. Competitive -> most activities include a PvP element (sometimes obvious, sometimes hidden)
7. Creative -> you build your own ride in the themepark. Even trying to build that ride can be a ride in and of itself :)

The reason I got hooked was you people btw. Multiplayer. That includes all the persons never reading the forums and simply playing.
flakeys
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-05-22 13:01:07 UTC
Pimpinaint Easy wrote:
A few of my co-workers (3 in total) attempted to try eve as a group. It didn't go well, and ultimately failed. They quit and when I asked why? "it's too complicated" is what each one echoed.

I'm sure CCP has heard this countless times before, but I'd suggest setting up some kind of enhanced tutorial with it's own staging area. I've been in this game for practically 10 years now, and it's hasn't gotten much better in that regard.. better but not enough. The barrier to entry is still too high. Eve isn't for everyone, I've heard this many times, but it seems like Eve is for the very few.. and frankly, it's a little surprising that Eve survives to this day. Sorry if that sounds like a rant, not meant to be.

An idea would be to hide away some of the more complex parts of the game, and gradually expose them over time, or at key points of a tutorial. My introduction to the game was, day 1 dragged to null sec, given a ship and blown up within about an hour and I knew this was the game for me.. Today's Minecraft fed masses aren't so forgiving..

Another note, the sandbox does seem so much smaller now than its ever been.

-P-



Yeah god forbid we actually have to think and do some research when we play a game ..... what the hell is CCP thinking , this is not the 90's .

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
IcyMind Arierep
Elysian Technologies Enclave
Fraternity.
#13 - 2015-05-22 15:03:47 UTC
When I was introduced to this game, I almost quit the first week due to the UI. After going in low sec getting blown up, i had to figure it out how to survive. Now 1.5 year later I am still playing and i dont think am going to quit this game ever. What I tell new capsuleer , is that it takes time to start getting good kills, it takes planning and research. Also I learn a lot for evey ship i lost. There is a lot to learn like is hard to rememebr all the details like damage type , damage dealt, items jammers, scram, different ammos, if you think about it is a lot of stuff. But once you pass the 6 month you are an eve player for life. And the most important lesson, don't measure success with isk/hour. Success is when you can say you had fun in the last op.

I think CCP is doing does new tutorial videos. Does can help a lot to new players. WIth the opportunities seems to help to those new players who are achivement driven.
Dots
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#14 - 2015-05-22 15:16:05 UTC

Tutorials are meant to help you understand the complexity, not reduce it.

No tutorial is ever going to make EVE less complicated. The game is what it is.



everything is better with ᵈᵒᵗˢ on it

New Player Opportunities: a gallery
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#15 - 2015-05-22 15:21:34 UTC
Pimpinaint Easy wrote:
A few of my co-workers (3 in total) attempted to try eve as a group. It didn't go well, and ultimately failed. They quit and when I asked why? "it's too complicated" is what each one echoed.

I'm sure CCP has heard this countless times before, but I'd suggest setting up some kind of enhanced tutorial with it's own staging area. I've been in this game for practically 10 years now, and it's hasn't gotten much better in that regard.. better but not enough. The barrier to entry is still too high. Eve isn't for everyone, I've heard this many times, but it seems like Eve is for the very few.. and frankly, it's a little surprising that Eve survives to this day. Sorry if that sounds like a rant, not meant to be.

An idea would be to hide away some of the more complex parts of the game, and gradually expose them over time, or at key points of a tutorial. My introduction to the game was, day 1 dragged to null sec, given a ship and blown up within about an hour and I knew this was the game for me.. Today's Minecraft fed masses aren't so forgiving..

Another note, the sandbox does seem so much smaller now than its ever been.

-P-


When this game was more complicated, more dangerous and more demanding it grew year after year. Now it's much easier, there are "oppurtunities" and warning pop ups and in game guiding mechanics (hell, in a mission, if you don't have the item you need in cargo, you get a warning that doesn't let you undock) and everyone is complaining about EVE dying.

Your friends simply weren't EVE material (I have friends like that too, and I should have known they would not take to EVE as all their other gaming choices were 'instant gratification' in nature) . CCPs multi year quest to lower the barriers for people like them not only did NOT attract people like that back to try again, it's running off people who are ACTUALLY cut out for EVE off because those people liked having a challenge.

CCP should worry more about finding more people like us who already play (and they do exist) rather than trying to get people liek your friends. What CCP is doing now by lowering barriers hoping to get non-EVE types to like EVE is like a Barbeque joint with money troubles trying to lure in vegans with "BBQ-Tofu" Menu Offerings instead of just making better Meat dishes for Carnivores lol.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2015-05-22 15:24:45 UTC
The next tutorial/NPE they make need to be about doing things with other player no matter what to generate player interaction.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#17 - 2015-05-22 15:24:48 UTC
Dots wrote:

Tutorials are meant to help you understand the complexity, not reduce it.

No tutorial is ever going to make EVE less complicated. The game is what it is.






Even more than that, it's the kind of game. Theme park games are fine having tutorials. But EVE is a sandbox game.

Sandbox games are about creativity, and Tutorials are bad for creativity. CCP does seem to be leaning towards understanding this now. The OPs friends are probably not creative enough to want to play EVE in the 1st place.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#18 - 2015-05-22 15:28:29 UTC
A lot of the problem is that we tend to attract the "instant action/ Instant gratification" crowd after big events. If they cant be in a battleship and fighting in 2000 man fleets in under an hour due to a cash shop theyre going to be disappointed.




Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Dots
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#19 - 2015-05-22 15:33:00 UTC

Frostys Virpio wrote:
The next tutorial/NPE they make need to be about doing things with other player no matter what to generate player interaction.


I understand what you're saying but do you really think this can be taught? How about a dating tutorial? And would you really want a 'how to interact with other humans' tutorial from a video game? It's like a chat room MOTD having a tutorial about how to have a nice conversation.

I think there are some things that people have to do and can't be taught. Like a do or die thing.

everything is better with ᵈᵒᵗˢ on it

New Player Opportunities: a gallery
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#20 - 2015-05-22 15:37:47 UTC
Dots wrote:
I think there are some things that people have to do and can't be taught. Like a do or die thing.


Pretty much this.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
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