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[Updated] [June] Module Tiericide - Armor Plates and Shield Extenders

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Author
exiik Shardani
Imperial Spacedrill and Logistics
Rezeda Regnum
#41 - 2015-05-21 03:15:02 UTC
+ for 200mm and 400mm plates
+ for faction variants of plates

- for nerf of 800mm and 1600mm tungstens/T2 plates (each -100 HP means -132 / -152 effective HP, because most armor buffer ships use 2 or 3 trimarks)

- it means little nerf to majority fits of Navy Augoror Sad

sry for my English :-(

Rowells
Body Count Inc.
Mercenary Coalition
#42 - 2015-05-21 03:39:37 UTC
I'm still looking at the rest of the numbers, but I definitely want to say that once the whole module tiericide is finished, consolidating the meta levels to be more linear and sensical in regards to module type should definitely happen.
Caleb Seremshur
Naked Oiled Bodybuilders
Parasitic Legion.
#43 - 2015-05-21 04:37:53 UTC
Arla Sarain wrote:
Small shield extenders get double HP over 100mm plates. 200mm plates have roughly same HP but 10PG or more and slows the ship down.

Ships that will be fitting these modules won't prefer either really, just that PG is more valuable on small ships.


200mm plate adds 8% or so more mass to a punisher
SSE II adds about 4% more sig radius to a kestrel.

or so. estimates here. Guess it depends on lots of factors. If your concerns are only fitting then 12 power 16 cpu or 26 cpu 3 power actually makes the SSE harder to fit.

sabastyian
Epicentre Syndicate
The Singularity.
#44 - 2015-05-21 04:50:38 UTC
Why the cpu nerf to 1600 t2 plates? Not really crying, just annoyed 95% of my fits will now have to be re-worked into worse variants due to this pointless change.
Berluth Luthian
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2015-05-21 04:58:00 UTC
Dual SSE > 1 MSE for everything but Cpu
Inslander Wessette
Unleashed' Fury
The Initiative.
#46 - 2015-05-21 06:00:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Inslander Wessette
hmmm...

Both propulsion and hp module changes in same patch . Recalculating speed values .

But...

The CCR plates have the same PG/CPU value as the meta 0 plate . But has better armor and lower penalty. Why would anyone use the meta 0 version ?

SImilarly between Azeotropic and Meta 0 shield extenders.

Or what is the point of the meta 0 module ? Just to be used in production of the T2 variant ? Not as a module as such ?

or have i completely missed some value . Isk may be to some extent but lets agree its not going to be a major factor.

I see clear tierciding between the Meta 1 and Meta 5 module . Increase in all values across the board .

Explain please @ ccp

+ 1 to the idea of XL size plates and extenders
Xindi Kraid
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#47 - 2015-05-21 06:03:28 UTC
I mentioned this in the prop mod thread as well, but it's probably not a good idea for the meta modules to also be improved over T1 in the primary stat.
They are already better through their other bonuses (fitting, cap use, etc), also making them better at the primary job (in this case having a better HP bonus) only serves to further undermine the usefulness of T1.
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
Ushra'Khan
#48 - 2015-05-21 06:05:35 UTC
CCP, this is your chance to discourage the common practice of fitting oversized tank mods.
Right now it's a standard approach and only seldom one considers the smaller option. How about making 1600mm plates or L extenders on cruiser sized ships a fitting choice that needs some commitment? Same for frigs with med extenders/ 400mm plates.

Upping the penalties a little more might do the trick.
Eli Porter
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2015-05-21 06:13:22 UTC

  • Reduce unnecessary complexity
  • Provide meaningful options within the module set
  • Stealth nerf armor doctrines?


That T2 plate nerf is a big deal. Double plated battleships will be losing like 3-5k EHP before links.
Aplysia Vejun
Children of Agasul
#50 - 2015-05-21 06:30:59 UTC
Midori Tsu wrote:
I think the syndicate plates should get another look at, with the proposed changes there will be very little reason to use them over the other the fed navy, especially when you consider the price and availability.

I have yet to see an armor tanked ship that needs the PG so much that it will take an increase in CPU. In any case, if that were an issue the trade off for the fed navy will work just as well and is better as it uses less cpu, 25 pg is not much of an increase. not to mention fed navy adds less mass.

As for price and availability, the fed navy has it beat as well, it comes from FW which just pours out LP. At tier 2 it is a single 10 minute novice plex to get enough LP to buy the plate from the LP store. That's with a T1 frigate. So when you consider how saturated the market will be and how easy it will be to get these to market, these will be easy to get. The syndicate plates will require a minimum of 3 missions in a tengu or battleship. Then you'll have to move it with a jump freighter, cloaky transport or hope to god a good wormhole appears nearby. Not to mention, you'll have to live in syndicate. I don't think we'll see a large availability of these.

So why would i ever want to pay more for something that has 5% less PG and is worse in every other way?

If the syndicate plates had less mass than the fed i think it might be a good trade off.

Good post. Why are the navy versions better AND much cheaper at the same time? @ccp
Rinola Han
First Moon Industries
#51 - 2015-05-21 07:18:58 UTC
Just a question, what happens to existing 50mm BPOs? Will they be upgraded to become 100mm BPO? Same questions for T2 BPO.

Thanks.
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#52 - 2015-05-21 07:51:08 UTC
I think that the fitting of the plates and SEs need to reflect their active tanking counter parts.

You need an SSE to be comparable to a small booster to fit, and 1600mm plates should match a LAR.

Additionally, these modules should give benefits that reflect this. I want to see the day where a buffer fit doesnt require 3 plates to be competitive and then STILL need resists on top of that. Likewise goes fro LSEs

This also means that yes, like the other are saying, we need an XLSE to match the booster.

And while we're on the topic you need put a shield recharge penalty on SEs and buff the crap out of shield rechargers to make them worth it. There's no reason to fit a recharger over an SE at all, like ever. You need yo make the shield tankers pick between buffer to passive recharge, not give them both, because it makes them REALLY annoying to kill. They get a cap-free recharge buff to their buffer.

And since we're talking amount over recharge can we get another small buff to cap batteries? They use WAY too much PG and CPU for that tiny neuting defense. They help, but are still generally not worth it. Maybe make their benefits comparable to their SE counter parts?

The Drake is a Lie

Brown Pathfinder
Its a good day to die
#53 - 2015-05-21 08:04:54 UTC
Can you guys please make it a little easier to fit in a medium shield extender on mining barges? Smile
Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#54 - 2015-05-21 08:14:47 UTC
Brown Pathfinder wrote:
Can you guys please make it a little easier to fit in a medium shield extender on mining barges? Smile

It is easy. My Proc. fits two of them currently.
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#55 - 2015-05-21 08:20:40 UTC
Can we please abandon this awful new naming convention

It makes everything more wordy and somehow even more ridiculous sounding
Conjaqq
The Mythically Intoxicated
Solyaris Chtonium
#56 - 2015-05-21 08:32:01 UTC
Not really sure why tech 2 armor plates, are getting nerfed.


Tech 2 plates where for the longest time, unusable because of rolled tungesten. Recently that was changed to make their fitting a little more easy. Now this seems to be reverted, and ontop of that the bonus it provides has been lessened aswell....

I dont know, maybe it's fine. It just seems odd to me.
Khan Wrenth
HC - inswineity
#57 - 2015-05-21 09:19:27 UTC
I must be playing in a very different game than the devs, because I often see armor ships built as shield tankers because you can up your powergrid via lows and increase your EHP to ridiculous levels through large shield extenders in a way you can't get through plates....which is a problem because armor is supposed to buffer better and shield is supposed to rep better.

The current meta is predominantly kitey, and armor plates don't mesh well with that because of the speed loss. To see armor plates getting nerfed and shield getting buffed seems completely backwards to me.

But that's just my experience, maybe this will be good overall in the long run. I'm just not seeing the same need for this as the devs apparently do. Between the speed creep from the prop module tiericide and the armor nerf, it feels like the devs want to push all of us into kiting whether we want to or not. Speed, mobility, kiting are all very powerful attributes that don't need further buffing. They don't need nerfing either, I don't want to imply that they do. But they certainly need no help from the devs when the playerbase already covets all these qualities and uses them quite extensively.
Vibiana
Frontier Trading Company
#58 - 2015-05-21 11:44:11 UTC
Hey devs, pls don't nerf plates! T2 plates are just bad, you make them even worse.
We don't need 100mm, we need 3200mm!

SSE: too weak, even frigates go for MSE.
We need XLSE, with regen penalty!
Evi Polevhia
True Slave Foundations
Monyusaiya Industry Trade Group
#59 - 2015-05-21 11:50:20 UTC
Vibiana wrote:
T2 plates are just bad

How? Currently other than mass they are better than any meta plate. Did you miss the patch that was forever ago where they were made better than Meta 4?
CCP Delegate Zero
C C P
C C P Alliance
#60 - 2015-05-21 11:50:53 UTC
Omnathious Deninard wrote:
So, what will happen to the 50mm reinforced steel plate BPOs and the micro shield extender BPOs?


Good question, the plan is to update the 50mm blueprints to 100mm plate prints. As these are BPOs they will be updated to the equivalent 100mm variants.

There are no micro shield extender blueprints with the exception of the existing storyline module print and that will shift to its new 100mm incarnation.


On the concerns raised about plates, primarily on tech II plates, we will take another look. This will likely involve a change to the respective balance of tech II and storyline plates.

We'll also take another look at the balance within the faction meta groups in light of feedback.

A general point on module tiericide as an aside: one of the main points of the exercise as a whole is to get the large range of modules in the game into a more coherent state that will actually facilitate balancing more frequently as needed in the future.

CCP Delegate Zero | Content Designer - Writer | @CCPDelegateZero