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[Carnyx] The Jackdaw

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Zurakaru Ze
Open University of Celestial Hardship
Art of War Alliance
#481 - 2015-05-20 05:31:09 UTC
Meh.

As with all new ships, it seems, whatever comes out in the first release will be nerfed/buffed/completely changed by the second.

Now, have the ability to squeeze some RLML on there AND have a reload bonus...that'd get the drool going.
Liafcipe9000
Critically Preposterous
#482 - 2015-05-20 05:45:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Liafcipe9000
CCP Fozzie wrote:
15% reduction in missile launcher reload time per level.

*slow clapping and sad laughter*

GG Fozzie. G ****ING G.

I LOVE YOU...
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#483 - 2015-05-20 06:50:34 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Caleb Seremshur wrote:


ASBs need a nerf as opposed to regular boosters needing a buff. At the module level. Not at the suspiciously specific ship level.


"Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate" Roll



I take it you feel that ASBs are fine as-is? Care to explain why? Try to reference more than just their reload time (I'm sure I don't need to go there).


because local reps are only really used by solo/small gang, even pve players avoid using ancillary reps, same with oversized prop mods, because we don't need to do anything else to limit that playstyle, and because if what you've said so far in this thread is anything to go by you might just be the worst solo advocate ever.
bunzing heet
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#484 - 2015-05-20 08:31:01 UTC
Izmaragd Dawnstar wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thanks to those of you who have provided feedback so far.
We're going to try another all-new bonus to replace the tank bonus on the CTD skill: a 15% reduction in missile launcher reload time per level.


While certainly very nice to have, I feel such a bonus falls out of the line compared to the other tactical dessies. Let's do this in order:
- What is the problem of the lasers? They use cap. So, the Confessor gets a bonus on laser cap usage.
- What is the problem of the autocannons? The have crap optimal and shoot in falloff a lot. So, the Svipul has a bonus to optimal.
- What is the problem of hybrids? Well, they don't really have one, but both null and void come with -25% tracking so the Hecate is planned to have a tracking bonus (unless you guys decide to replace it with something else before July, of course Big smile )

Now, what is the problem of missiles and rockets? Is it reload time? While reducing reload time is definitely nice and everyone will take it over the 50HP shield bonus every day, it's not going to make or break stuff, unless we're talking RLMLs, which a dessie can't fit. Now, the missile application (aka "I need at least a web to make rage rockets hit a frigate for something") can be an issue.

So, again, why not an application bonus? Pretty please? Bear
I could also do with a 7.5% shield boost amount, to keep it in line with the hawk.


yeah
what he said
i fully support the application bonus and active shield boost bonus
seems to suit this ship better

Fly safe keep killing And remember I'm watching you !!!!
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#485 - 2015-05-20 09:41:22 UTC
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Caleb Seremshur wrote:


ASBs need a nerf as opposed to regular boosters needing a buff. At the module level. Not at the suspiciously specific ship level.


"Veteran and solo/small gang PVP advocate" Roll



I take it you feel that ASBs are fine as-is? Care to explain why? Try to reference more than just their reload time (I'm sure I don't need to go there).


because local reps are only really used by solo/small gang, even pve players avoid using ancillary reps, same with oversized prop mods, because we don't need to do anything else to limit that playstyle, and because if what you've said so far in this thread is anything to go by you might just be the worst solo advocate ever.


Let's review, 25% of this games weapons get made irrelevant and negates some elements of tackle, by another mans admission. Only neuts or substantial amounts of webbing affect oversized prop mods. Hmm. There's something to think about here.

Ancillary shield boosters; this is a good one to bring up. They were OP to start with and now where are they? All I ever said was to make them consume larger charges so that the ship couldn't carry so many. That's literally what I was suggesting. Do you have a salient complaint to make about that point?

But I guess you made some assumptions about me based on... god knows how little info... and you're suggesting that I don't believe in solo or small gang even though my killboard is almost exclusively exactly that. And mostly shield ships. And I spend substantial amounts of my EVE time on sisi because I like the arena like environment where you just fight without concern over price.

So please, give me your best shot. I'm listening.
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#486 - 2015-05-20 10:53:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Lloyd Roses
You need two ASBs to make them somewhat of an active tank. At that point, they're a cheap, CPU intesive alternative to a c-type SB - fitting which also secures your AB cap. If you apply enough damage, you'll get both ASBs into reload simultaniously and he dead.
The cap question is all but unimportant. Oversized props got quite some activation costs that don't come back over the 12s cycle of a med neut. ASB in general seem like a neat baseline for where you want your tanking levels to be.

Couldn't agree more though on the cap charges. It all started with the just dumb cargospace on a hawk in comparison to other frigates to that shield boosting bonus. Being able to carry 5ish reloads should be the limit on a non-marauder. It's exactly that for cruisers with XLASB to BS with XLASB.
motie one
Secret Passage
#487 - 2015-05-20 11:01:11 UTC
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The flexibility that this bonus provides for in-combat ammo switching should be pretty interesting, without causing an oppressive increase in the best-case power level of the ship. At level 5, missile launchers would reload in 2.5 seconds.

Great! Now can we get this for the Barghest as well...?


Application bonus would be my first choice, but this would be nice, without bringing the power level significantly up and more acceptable overall. The barghest could do with a little look at, I agree.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#488 - 2015-05-20 11:05:01 UTC
So, had a rough few days at work, haven't been able to keep up until now.

But does anyone else find the "50HP per level" thing to be downright insulting? I can barely believe that it wasn't a joke. Whether that actually made it to release or not, it's still strange that it was even up for consideration at all.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#489 - 2015-05-20 11:11:40 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
So, had a rough few days at work, haven't been able to keep up until now.

But does anyone else find the "50HP per level" thing to be downright insulting? I can barely believe that it wasn't a joke. Whether that actually made it to release or not, it's still strange that it was even up for consideration at all.



That was a tactical move by FozzyTheFox to make the reload time bonus even more attractive ;)
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#490 - 2015-05-20 11:56:06 UTC
motie one wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
The flexibility that this bonus provides for in-combat ammo switching should be pretty interesting, without causing an oppressive increase in the best-case power level of the ship. At level 5, missile launchers would reload in 2.5 seconds.

Great! Now can we get this for the Barghest as well...?


Application bonus would be my first choice, but this would be nice, without bringing the power level significantly up and more acceptable overall. The barghest could do with a little look at, I agree.


You don't see how a 9 second reload RHML barghest would be a problem?
Kane Carnifex
Duty.
Brave Collective
#491 - 2015-05-20 14:35:37 UTC
I <3 this Jackdaw.

For me it is the evil sister of the drake. Nice Missle DPS & Range and a decent Tank.

5x Rocket Launcher II (Mjolnir Rage Rocket)

1MN Microwarpdrive II
2x Medium Ancillary Shield Booster (Navy Cap Booster 50)
2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Warp Scrambler II

Co-Processor II
Ballistic Control System II

Small Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Small Core Defense Operational Solidifier II
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II

http://vesuvi.de - EVE & Food Porn in German...
Terra Chrall
Doomheim
#492 - 2015-05-20 15:06:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Terra Chrall
Kane Carnifex wrote:
I <3 this Jackdaw.

For me it is the evil sister of the drake. Nice Missle DPS & Range and a decent Tank.

5x Rocket Launcher II (Mjolnir Rage Rocket)

1MN Microwarpdrive II
2x Medium Ancillary Shield Booster (Navy Cap Booster 50)
2x Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Warp Scrambler II

Co-Processor II
Ballistic Control System II

Small Warhead Rigor Catalyst II
Small Core Defense Operational Solidifier II
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II


Wouldn't it be worth swapping out something for web on a rocket fit? Better application, and the Jackdaw is slow so you need to keep the target from escaping / keeping range.
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
Totally Abstract
O X I D E
#493 - 2015-05-20 17:25:33 UTC
I really like the reload reduction, I think it will greatly increase versatility in a unique way that I'm am interested to test out. I know that I have been in plenty of situations where a 10-second ammo swap before a fight would be.... bad. Being able to quickly swap once in the fight, between Navy and T2, between damage types, will also make this an interesting ship if it isn't broken in other ways.
Fozzie, I have a lingering question though: Will there be a balance pass on missiles, in general or specific sizes/types, with the Jackdaw release like there was with the Confessor and Svipul releases? I understand if you want to keep the specifics quiet for now, or if they're still being decided on, but I would love to have something else to look forward to with Carnyx that could fix some of the less useful missile ships and provide even more versatility.
Solj RichPopolous
Silent Havok.
H A R D L I N E R S
#494 - 2015-05-20 19:55:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Solj RichPopolous
Really feeling the Jackdaw. The increase in speed is pushing me up to just under 3km/s. I would rather see a damage application bonus in the explosion velocity department over reload. Since LMLs can have a hard time applying to the more speedy targets.

Other then that I'm really loving this ship. I'm going no contest in SiSi vs 90% of ships under BS class (that don't use the broken Gecko with its OP 20% wrecking rate but thats another story) really living up to the hopes I had for this ship, a faster mini 100mn tengu.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#495 - 2015-05-20 21:39:30 UTC
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
The increase in speed is pushing me up to just under 3km/s.


Very nice, but what's your set up? is that overheated deadspace 10mn ab with high grade snakes, links, and quafe?
Solj RichPopolous
Silent Havok.
H A R D L I N E R S
#496 - 2015-05-20 21:52:56 UTC
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
The increase in speed is pushing me up to just under 3km/s.


Very nice, but what's your set up? is that overheated deadspace 10mn ab with high grade snakes, links, and quafe?


HG snakes, Corelum C-type 10mn No heat, Links, No Quafe. I always fit like this though. Check muh losses, I fit for performance.
Catherine Laartii
Doomheim
#497 - 2015-05-20 22:33:02 UTC
Mystical Might wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hey everyone. Thanks to those of you who have provided feedback so far.
We're going to try another all-new bonus to replace the tank bonus on the CTD skill: a 15% reduction in missile launcher reload time per level.

The flexibility that this bonus provides for in-combat ammo switching should be pretty interesting, without causing an oppressive increase in the best-case power level of the ship. At level 5, missile launchers would reload in 2.5 seconds.

This bonus won't be working correctly in the next SISI build tomorrow, but it will be in an upcoming build for you guys to try out.


So, dear brother fozzie,

In what situation is this reload situation bonus an applicable game changer? What does it achieve for anyone?

Switching damage types for missiles quickly is very good for fighting multiple targets with different tank layouts, especially t2, as it allows for switching from shield damaging to armor damaging ammo, or visa versa.

Even in solo combat, switching from mjolnir to nova quickly when you reach their armor is going to be a big thing.
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#498 - 2015-05-20 23:41:42 UTC
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
Fourteen Maken wrote:
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
The increase in speed is pushing me up to just under 3km/s.


Very nice, but what's your set up? is that overheated deadspace 10mn ab with high grade snakes, links, and quafe?


HG snakes, Corelum C-type 10mn No heat, Links, No Quafe. I always fit like this though. Check muh losses, I fit for performance.


I saw that earlier it's why i asked Lol, sadly i can't roll like that in or i'd lose my shirt.

I'm tempted to try setting up on sisi again just to see what a space peasant can do in a jackdaw with t2 fit and no links. The agility and midslots should give good options for brawling, and that's where it should shine... dictating range in brawls. I'm hoping people don't find a cheap way to break it with light missiles so let's not do the damage application bonus. As it stands a fast kiting frigate can probably outrun your missiles since you'll be in prop mode with no bonus to missile velocity, and if you switch to sharpshooter he can come and go at will which is only right given the amount of cancer and tank we can put on this. Missile fits will work well in gangs, but rockets for solo imo.
Count Szadek
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#499 - 2015-05-21 01:25:26 UTC
Any chance of us getting the reload bonus as a Caldari thing? Would not mind at all seeing this on say a Osprey Navy Issue.
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#500 - 2015-05-21 03:52:22 UTC
Count Szadek wrote:
Any chance of us getting the reload bonus as a Caldari thing? Would not mind at all seeing this on say a Osprey Navy Issue.


It can't because of rapid launchers.