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How to turn a negative EVEmindset into a positive?
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Trin Javidan
Caymen Labs
#1 - 2015-05-19 16:10:51 UTC
Before saying anything, you may have some questions about the value of this topic, if it does not concerns you, why should you bother in joining into the conversation anyway? Trolls, please that way ---> :WoW:

I have a negative mindset about EVE. If you would ask me what comes spontaneously into my mind if you say the word EVE, it would be anything negative. That is not something i wish to have, but it is there and it is something psychological. I will save you from boredom by not going into specific detail. But in short explained; experiencing positive emotions, occurring at any event or any "occurring something", makes you build up a positive report and you will associate that with that particularly "something". Translated: that could be eating a Icecream, a Mining OP, a Gank Roam, a Fleet Slaying or perhaps a General Feeling that you experience while playing in own created sandbox. A sandbox, that you have carefully created, invested in, got emotional attached to, ect.

But what it i tell you that you will have this at any "something" you ever have done, do or will do? And that it is always subjective to chance in a two way option?: Positive --and--- Negative. Are you aware what will happen when a "something" tips over and changes side from that two way option? Would that make you curious?

Lets take hypothetically something in mind and imaging it figuratively gets attacked time after time, by lets say: clumsiness. Your Icecream, a Mining OP, a Gank Roam, a Fleet Slaying or perhaps a General Feeling is getting messed up from what it used to be, by clumsiness. What will happen is; that there is going to be an experiencing negative association with that clumsiness and everything that is associated with that again. Until it get's so negative that everything positive will be rejected, and there will be a disgruntled customer.

So lets take a hypothetical example (not meant to be directed at anyone): An old kid playing in a sandbox: who has built a sandcastle in the outskirts of the sandpit, gets bullied by the near construction yard's waterspills. He is experiences such inconvenience and builds up such a negative report that he does not decide to build any sandcastles anymore, let alone considers to play in the sandpit anymore.

Long story short, how could that customer be turned positive again, even if he want to but psychological isn't able to? That is my question.
Fabrizio Faggetino
Doomheim
#2 - 2015-05-19 16:23:39 UTC
Purely subconscious.

。.:・°☆ FABRIZIO 。.:・°☆
Paranoid Loyd
#3 - 2015-05-19 16:27:38 UTC
The game is to accomplish your goals. If you are unable to accomplish your goals you either need to try harder or find something else to do. It seems you have decided you don't want to try harder anymore. So either make new goals or move on.

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Joey Bags
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#4 - 2015-05-19 16:35:09 UTC
I would say in this context that you need more and bigger friends to bully the bullies. That is not to say hire someone to do it, but make lots of friends, perhaps even befriend the bullies. What I am reading between the lines here is someone will not let you play this game the way you want. EvE was designed from the outset to be a social game. The spaceships are cool and all that, but it is the relationships you build within the game that allow the most powerful of players to become what they are. Most of them are not in game brawlers, but have built relationships that quite honestly the brawlers avoid for fear of getting blown up all the time.

You can pick your friends and you can pick your nose but you can't pick your friends nose. Unless you podded them...and collected their corpse.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#5 - 2015-05-19 16:35:36 UTC
Trin Javidan wrote:


Long story short, how could that customer be turned positive again, even if he want to but psychological isn't able to? That is my question.


Only that customer can do that, because what he/she is experiencing is entirely internal in nature.

I've actually had this conversation a lot with people who complain about aspects of EVE, in my case, particularly PVE. I have fun every night doing various PVE-ish things, and even the PVP i have engaged in in the past was for PVE (in my case, being in a null alliance was about having access to the kinds of PVE I enjoy, and I always liked the process of taking space because it might mean different rats to shoot at, I don't personally like PVP just for the sake of PVP).

Then I come across other PVErs who are bored, tired of the PVE, want more "content" (despite the fact that they haven't exhausted the pve that exists as most of those types stick to high sec) and complain that CCP should do something for them. The real truth is that they tend to be regular type mmo players who 'consume' content rather than the type of PVEr that enjoys 'sandbox pve' which is what EVE has. Sandbox PVE is pve you enjoy by finding as many ways to conquer it as you can, unlike themepark pve which is really just a more interactive form of movie.

The long story short here is that the problem tend to be a players compatibility with what they are playing. That doesn't mean whatever game they are playing is perfect, everything can be improved, but most times a person is unhappy with a game situation where others (like me) are almost perfectly happy, the problem is with that player not the game.
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#6 - 2015-05-19 16:36:42 UTC
Quote:
What will happen is; that there is going to be an experiencing negative association with that clumsiness and everything that is associated with that again. Until it get's so negative that everything positive will be rejected, and there will be a disgruntled customer.
Yeah, but no one has to.

You only stay clumsi if you don't learn to get better.

That, again, is an issue of the mindset, which can be changed.


I guess that was a bad example ...
... because in your example the customer is at fault.

And with the customer being at fault ...
... there is nothing CCP can do ...
... except making it too easy to fail.

And we have too much of that already.


Quote:
An old kid playing in a sandbox: who has built a sandcastle in the outskirts of the sandpit, gets bullied by the near construction yard's waterspills. He is experiences such inconvenience and builds up such a negative report that he does not decide to build any sandcastles anymore, let alone considers to play in the sandpit anymore.

That kid has ****** parents.

It's a kid. He has to learn how to deal with the situation.
Bad parents will teach him to avoid confrontation or nothing at all.

Good parents will teach him how to stand up for himself and defend himself.

But that's a kid. Adults should not rely on parents, CCP,
or big brother,
to do what they should do themselves.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Sri Nova
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2015-05-19 17:20:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Sri Nova
While I agree its a psychological thing i blame it more on conditioning.

The gaming industry has as a whole has created games that generally reward players for every thing that they do.
taking a look at the generic MMO market including WOW and others, the player is usually kowtowed to and everything he or she does is rewarded in some way . if penalties do occur they are usually minor.

so now we have these conditioned players who come to eve. they work hard in game mining, ratting, maybe even pvping.
but then they mess up. they incur real loss. which generally translates into a huge cost in isk to the player.
this is usually the point that makes eve, seem like a negative game.

its not eve that creates the negative experience. it is the players conditioning and expecting that they will be rewarded every time they fly that ship.
you cannot blame eve for that . that is the game industries fault for stripping out risk/reward game play in the games we play.

in eve your rewarded for bold actions that are carried out successfully but also your actions carry forth consequences another thing often glossed over or not even bothered with in the majority of games today.
so its not so much that eve encourages negative experiences it is the players reactions to those experiences that form the negative event.

the players have been conditioned for so long to expect rewards for doing stuff , that when "stuff "happens it seems like a negative event.

where in actuality it is one of the beautiful l things about eve. Failing to find the positive in that is the players own shortcoming in overcoming their conditioning.

Eve's reputation is well deserved because it is one of the games that does things differently. it provides some of the most rewarding game play in this industry . it just requires a little investment (social+time) from the player to experience it.

failing to see the positive aspects of eve means one is to focused on a singular aspect of the game.







Trin Javidan wrote:
Before saying anything, you may have some questions about the value of this topic, if it does not concerns you, why should you bother in joining into the conversation anyway? Trolls, please that way ---> :WoW:

I have a negative mindset about EVE. If you would ask me what comes spontaneously into my mind if you say the word EVE, it would be anything negative. That is not something i wish to have, but it is there and it is something psychological. I will save you from boredom by not going into specific detail. But in short explained; experiencing positive emotions, occurring at any event or any "occurring something", makes you build up a positive report and you will associate that with that particularly "something". Translated: that could be eating a Icecream, a Mining OP, a Gank Roam, a Fleet Slaying or perhaps a General Feeling that you experience while playing in own created sandbox. A sandbox, that you have carefully created, invested in, got emotional attached to, ect.

But what it i tell you that you will have this at any "something" you ever have done, do or will do? And that it is always subjective to chance in a two way option?: Positive --and--- Negative. Are you aware what will happen when a "something" tips over and changes side from that two way option? Would that make you curious?

Lets take hypothetically something in mind and imaging it figuratively gets attacked time after time, by lets say: clumsiness. Your Icecream, a Mining OP, a Gank Roam, a Fleet Slaying or perhaps a General Feeling is getting messed up from what it used to be, by clumsiness. What will happen is; that there is going to be an experiencing negative association with that clumsiness and everything that is associated with that again. Until it get's so negative that everything positive will be rejected, and there will be a disgruntled customer.

So lets take a hypothetical example (not meant to be directed at anyone): An old kid playing in a sandbox: who has built a sandcastle in the outskirts of the sandpit, gets bullied by the near construction yard's waterspills. He is experiences such inconvenience and builds up such a negative report that he does not decide to build any sandcastles anymore, let alone considers to play in the sandpit anymore.

Long story short, how could that customer be turned positive again, even if he want to but psychological isn't able to? That is my question.
Lupe Meza
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2015-05-19 17:35:42 UTC
Trin Javidan wrote:


Long story short, how could that customer be turned positive again, even if he want to but psychological isn't able to? That is my question.


I don't see how this scenario is possible. If someone wants to have a more positive outlook, they just need to do it. Inability to do so demonstrates a psychological resistance to doing it; indicating that the person does not in fact want to change their outlook. This doesn't just extend to EVE but all things. Unless someone has a disorder you are very much in control of your thoughts. You may feel sadness, anger, love, hatred, but how you deal with these things psychologically is in direct alignment with what you WANT. If you are sad you are free to wallow or be self destructive. You can accept and move on. But your actions will 100% be governed by your wants. Unless again, you have a genuine psychological disorder or serious trauma.

In the case of EVE however, if you want to have a positive outlook on the game you will. You can't want to and be psychologically unable to. This is an impossibility in my opinion in this case. Now what CAN happen is that your net game experience is negative. Unlike many life experiences I think in terms of EVE or any game really in that you can quantify it by if you enjoyed yourself or not. Did you enjoy the process of building the sandcastle even though it inevitably got blown away? Was there a way to avoid having it destroyed? Did you take an honest and objective look at why it happened and if it could be avoided? Or did you sob into your pail?

The process of understanding why you lose in this game is more important than winning since that eventually leads to you "winning" at whatever you do. Can't turn a profit but continue to have .01 isk wars in Jita? Get ganked but refuse to carry less than 2 bil in your freighter or tank your retriever? "It won't make a difference anyway". That is learned helplessness. If you experience a negative learn how to avoid repeating it, therein lies having a more positive experience. You don't have to blow up someone to beat them in this game.

Miners ganked? Tank your ships, buy a procurer instead, don't be afk. A few months of this and miner ganking disappears with no shots fired, literally.

Corp Highsec Elite PVPdecced to death? Leave High Sec, or remain in an NPC corp, just use social corps to network and cooperate. While it would be nice to be able to operate an industrial or PVE oriented corp in High, since that is where most of the players are that is where most of the people looking for kills will be ironically. If you want to build something as a team of carebears, you just have to be someplace really inconvenient (Wormhole for example) for people targeting players like you (Weak in PVP ability or inept) or untouchable (NPC Corp). If you're capable find a more militaristic solution to your ills. If not just be faster than the fat guy running from the horde of zombies. Point is there are usually options. Not as good as "why can't people just not blow me up" but what are you gonna do. I've found most people don't do what I want them to in reality. Why would they in a game?

If you have a tough time and are only having negative experiences really stand back, try to think outside the box, and think about how you can spend your time doing more things you enjoy doing in New Eden with the minimum amount of bad stuff happening to you. Other players affect that last component, but outmaneuvering players is part of the universe and make it more rewarding when you do successfully put up a sandcastle against all odds. Or at the very least find a way to enjoy your playtime as much as possible, but there will always be negative experiences since this game is competitive on so many levels and n order for someone to win, someone has to lose. If that is unacceptable there is no amount of inspiration that will make your EVE experience enjoyable. Might be time for more positive pastures.

TLDR; LOLHELLOKITTICANIHAZYERSTUFFPLZ.
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#9 - 2015-05-19 17:45:28 UTC
i was hoping something about electroshock was going on here,instead just another opinion of random quality.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
2Sonas1Cup
#10 - 2015-05-19 17:46:10 UTC
Starts from the devs, isds and CCP themselves.
Random Bacon
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#11 - 2015-05-19 17:56:07 UTC
Trin Javidan wrote:

Long story short, how could that customer be turned positive again, even if he want to but psychological isn't able to? That is my question.


It takes more than 2 and a half years to hear a 10 second introduction from 8 million people (typical large city).

Thats back to back with no breaks / pauses / sleep and relies on a constant delivery mechanism.

With this known, the player is obviously malcontent with the expectation of time spent = smiling time. In this respect the only way to 'feel happy' again is to re-engage with the product, as mentioned the desire to find ways to smile / enjoy the game is a pursuit of the s/he mentioned in the OP.

The best course of action for the unhappy customer is to deduce why it's not fun, what part/s is/are worth chasing, and how to minimise the less fun parts, whilst maximising the enjoyable parts for the time spent logged in.

Oftentimes in MMO communities the highest reward and social advantage is applied to the person who logs the most hours, as they have more time to plan the use of mechanics, corner the market, work out where the obstacles can be applied to their rivals and how they can stay in a position that signifies primacy (1st amongst others).

In EVE I would say that the satisfaction arises mainly from the backdrop of spaceships and warfare.
People can have fun with this environment in many different ways;
Mining resources to facilitate larger battles amongst pvp-heavy player mindsets.
Taking part in small surprise fleets that tour either neutral space or someones private back yard.
Revelling at the artistic representation of the scenery and 'every Kaiser Sose' in the pirate corporations
Logging into an MMO to find people that make the passage of 1-5 hours (or more), 1 to 7 times a week a worthwhile and meaningful experience.

Fun fact; the film Gravity was declared the most spectacular movie of it's release interval. It's plot revolved around 2 different perspectives of the deep and meaningful monologue isolation in space brings about. Running at 91 minutes at an average cinema ticket cost comparable with the EVE Online subscription, some would say the belief in the movie and the progress of special effects were the sole reasons for it's performance at the box office. Turning $100mil into $760mil+ to date.

If the subject of the OP can find the 'spectacle' that drew the crowd to that movie in EVE, even the harshest most vile downsides become meaningless.


good luck, have fun
Nevil Oscillator
#12 - 2015-05-19 23:58:46 UTC
I keep going because I have faith that small hybrid turret 3 will be even more fun than small hybrid turret 2
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
#13 - 2015-05-20 00:26:48 UTC
Trin Javidan wrote:
Before saying anything, you may have some questions about the value of this topic, if it does not concerns you, why should you bother in joining into the conversation anyway? Trolls, please that way ---> :WoW:

I have a negative mindset about EVE. If you would ask me what comes spontaneously into my mind if you say the word EVE, it would be anything negative. That is not something i wish to have, but it is there and it is something psychological. I will save you from boredom by not going into specific detail. But in short explained; experiencing positive emotions, occurring at any event or any "occurring something", makes you build up a positive report and you will associate that with that particularly "something". Translated: that could be eating a Icecream, a Mining OP, a Gank Roam, a Fleet Slaying or perhaps a General Feeling that you experience while playing in own created sandbox. A sandbox, that you have carefully created, invested in, got emotional attached to, ect.

But what it i tell you that you will have this at any "something" you ever have done, do or will do? And that it is always subjective to chance in a two way option?: Positive --and--- Negative. Are you aware what will happen when a "something" tips over and changes side from that two way option? Would that make you curious?

Lets take hypothetically something in mind and imaging it figuratively gets attacked time after time, by lets say: clumsiness. Your Icecream, a Mining OP, a Gank Roam, a Fleet Slaying or perhaps a General Feeling is getting messed up from what it used to be, by clumsiness. What will happen is; that there is going to be an experiencing negative association with that clumsiness and everything that is associated with that again. Until it get's so negative that everything positive will be rejected, and there will be a disgruntled customer.

So lets take a hypothetical example (not meant to be directed at anyone): An old kid playing in a sandbox: who has built a sandcastle in the outskirts of the sandpit, gets bullied by the near construction yard's waterspills. He is experiences such inconvenience and builds up such a negative report that he does not decide to build any sandcastles anymore, let alone considers to play in the sandpit anymore.

Long story short, how could that customer be turned positive again, even if he want to but psychological isn't able to? That is my question.


Where it gets tricky is when people prefer to feel negative. Their story dictates that life is bad and full of sadness, so they can only be happy when sad.

We all do this to some extent, we prefer to feel something, anything, rather than feel nothing.

So EVE can have a future catering to those with morbid outlooks. Especially when the world is full of excited marketeers talking passionately about their rainbow coloured crap.

It's a choice of pills. And a spoonful of sugar, with a measure of truth.

~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#14 - 2015-05-20 01:57:21 UTC
Sounds like the OP needs a face full of non-consenual spaceship violence.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Aza Ebanu
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2015-05-20 02:14:12 UTC
The player would need friends, to help encourage the player to take the steps needed, to overcome their feelings. Also, good memories of the things they liked about their experiences before the bullying. EVE is skewed in the negative because, it has matured with a large amount of people who think a certain way. The only way to prevent this is to join with like minded people, and hopefully you can defend yourself against the bullies.
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#16 - 2015-05-20 03:23:38 UTC
This thread has generated the least amount of likes I have ever seen. Do you think it has to do with "negative mindset"?

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Ohemgeez MyNameWontFi
Space Heroes In Training
#17 - 2015-05-20 03:39:16 UTC
in my humble opinion the only people who have this "negative mindset" of EvE (just like you OP), are people who wants to play this game SOLO.

i'm not talking about joining a corp or anything like that, i mean if you are playing this game with people (as in friends, which likely be your corpy :p) you'll be enjoying this GAME more and won't be even arsed with this negative/positive mindset you are talking about. Cool

this is EvE Online NOT Psychology Online. Big smile
Atomic Virulent
Embargo.
#18 - 2015-05-20 03:46:25 UTC
OP.

The dominant faction in the game has a clear and documented goal.

"To ruin the fun in the game for EVERYONE else"

I believe the IMPS can claim this slogan. It is fact. It is real. Find it yourself.

CCP has been completely facilitative of this goal at every corner.

Now ask yourself what you are trying to ignorantly ask everyone else.

The game is driven by hate, distrust, greed, lies, distortion and douchebaggery in its purest form.


You cannot play this game with a positive mindset and expect or receive ANY level of success.
Atomic Virulent
Embargo.
#19 - 2015-05-20 03:49:04 UTC
Ohemgeez MyNameWontFi wrote:


this is EvE Online NOT Psychology Online.


You could not be more wrong.. The fact that you said this shows that you are losing the game no matter how big your wallet is.
Ohemgeez MyNameWontFi
Space Heroes In Training
#20 - 2015-05-20 04:54:19 UTC
Atomic Virulent wrote:
Ohemgeez MyNameWontFi wrote:


this is EvE Online NOT Psychology Online.


You could not be more wrong.. The fact that you said this shows that you are losing the game no matter how big your wallet is.


wut? What?

aside from the monthly subscription fee that i am paying CCP to be able to access their goodies, my wallet has nothing to do with it...

my main is in GalMil, and I am pretty sure that I am having a wonderful time and being sane enough to know that this is a GAME and being positive/negative does NOT affect how I behave or how I treat other people IRL.

if i'll go with what OP is saying, by now, i should NOT be trusting any of my friends/cousin/sibllings with my money or any other personal properties because we all now they might take it just like in-game right? or let my lawyer handle my business because he might sabotage it, or outright dismiss people who comes to me proposing some kind of a business deal thinking that they will scam me.

the real question is, why would you allow a GAME impact you so much that you let it drastically change your mindset and outlook in life? What?

lewl duders, relax, it's just a GAME.
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