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Understanding the loss of a Titan

Author
Shidoshi Ryuu
Solar Forged
#1 - 2015-05-15 13:11:38 UTC
Can you all help me understand the effort and patience a titan represents?

How many hours of mining, waiting on research, waiting on construction, and any other effort may an average titan build consume?

That is all the way from whatever CCP supplies in the form of asteroids and blueprints all the way to a working ship. I want to understand all the effort I am seeing washed down the drain when one is destroyed.

Thanks. Cool
Haffsol
#2 - 2015-05-15 14:23:04 UTC
It's literaly this much.
CJ Alland
CB Trading
#3 - 2015-05-15 17:51:18 UTC  |  Edited by: CJ Alland
Scott Manley does a pretty good job of answering some of your questions : https://youtu.be/x_ZLkk2Qmj0

It's a little bit dated though. The price of a titan hull is closer to about 100b now I believe.
Shidoshi Ryuu
Solar Forged
#4 - 2015-05-15 20:45:42 UTC
CJ Alland wrote:
Scott Manley does a pretty good job of answering some of your questions : https://youtu.be/x_ZLkk2Qmj0

It's a little bit dated though. The price of a titan hull is closer to about 100b now I believe.


100bil is close to $1800 worth of plex if I am doing the math right. It is hard to imagine the effort that sum represents in the game.

I am having a hard time comprehending the magnitude of something like B-R.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab36h4aDUUI

How much collective effort is represented on that battlefield?
CJ Alland
CB Trading
#5 - 2015-05-15 21:40:25 UTC  |  Edited by: CJ Alland
The battle was between CFC and N3. N3 lost the fight and ultamatly the war.

These coalitions are huge, we're talking tens of thousands of members, sure many might just be grunts but a large number will also be involved in the production and logistics involved in keeping the alliances running.

It's not just the battle you need to consider when messuring the collective effort. There would have been 1000's of man hours mining, hauling, producing, calculating all things that add to the eventual production of a titan which is then sold to the alliance/member and then used in the fight.

There were also thousands of Capitals (Dreads/Carriers) and even they are not cheap or quick to build.

At the rate nullsec power were growing it was inevitable that something on this scale was going to happen.
Eric Raeder
No Fee Too High
#6 - 2015-05-16 06:00:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Eric Raeder
Checking the blueprint of a Leviathan, it looks like it takes 60-65 billion in ore to make. My rule of thumb is that highsec mining tops out at about 20 million of ore gathered per hour. Since the recent ore rebalancing, you can do better than that in null, but to keep things simple I am going to just divide 60 billion by 20 million and figure it takes 3000 man-hours just to mine the ore. To put that in perspective, a 40 hour a week paying job with 2 weeks off for vacation takes 2000 hours per year. So just mining the ore is like 1.5 man-YEARS of work. Far more than the apparent PLEX cost, because mining isn't really an efficient way to earn ISK in Eve.

Then it has to be hauled to various POSes to be assembled into capital components, and then the capital components have to be hauled to a central POS for assembly into the titan. All this work has to be defended from enemy alliances who have enormous incentive to keep you from finishing the job. And don't discount the great administrative effort it takes to get all these people to work together.

Losing one of these things is huge. In terms of labor cost, more than totaling a brand new real life car.
Hemmo Paskiainen
#7 - 2015-05-16 13:36:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen
It depends on how fast you can make isk. On my peak gaming time i made 450b a month. On the other hand, a miner only mines 20m ph, belt ratter 40m, anomaly 60m, exploration 80m, incursions 120m -240m, wormholes 180-300mph, trader 0-3b/m, speculator 0-100b/m.

Understanding the loss of a titan is equal to the total understanding of isk mgaining/making across all "professions" in Eve. That will take you about a year if you are a quick study.

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?

GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#8 - 2015-05-16 15:23:04 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Review the Titan blueprint in question with regards to build time, Material/Time Efficiency research to get the big picture, then take the raw inputs, i.e. ME 5 Avatar BPO bill of materials is,

Quote:

Material - Quantity

Tritanium - 3,959,720,298
Pyerite - 959,955,306
Mexallon - 328,130,581
Isogen - 58,013,573
Nocxium - 16,233,918
Zydrine - 5,808,930
Megacyte - 2,889,426

Total Volume of Materials: 53,307,520.32 m3
Total Cost of Materials: 74,611,007,947.07 ISK


Look up the respective ore compositions, said ore availability, their volumes, mining yields per hour and also account for the refining yield.

Quote:
Material - Quantity

Capital Clone Vat Bay - 529
Capital Jump Bridge Array - 529
Capital Jump Drive - 529
Capital Corporate Hangar Bay - 529
Capital Ship Maintenance Bay - 529
Capital Doomsday Weapon Mount - 529
Capital Capacitor Battery - 529
Capital Armor Plates - 529
Capital Turret Hardpoint - 529
Capital Power Generator - 529
Capital Construction Parts - 422
Capital Sensor Cluster - 317
Capital Computer System - 317
Capital Propulsion Engine - 211
Capital Shield Emitter - 106

Total Volume of Materials: 66,630,000.00 m3


Then look up the component build, research times. As Eric Raeder has said, first minerals, then components will need to be hauled on different stages of productions.

With component BPOs at ME 10 & Avatar blueprint at ME 5 mineral inputs are reduced further,

Quote:
Material - Quantity

Tritanium - 3,628,489,145
Pyerite - 879,049,770
Mexallon - 300,595,256
Isogen - 53,175,477
Nocxium - 14,890,374
Zydrine - 5,334,900
Megacyte - 2,647,041

Total Volume of Materials: 48,841,819.63 m3


Volumes are self-explanatory. Blink
Adriana Nolen
Sama Guild
#9 - 2015-05-17 08:59:05 UTC
Think of it as building a car from scratch. If you do it all yourself, yeah, its going to take a while. If you have 1000 ppl do 3 hours of work, it's much much more manageable.
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-05-17 16:32:31 UTC
GankYou wrote:

Total Cost of Materials: 74,611,007,947.07 ISK


Eric Raeder wrote:

My rule of thumb is that highsec mining tops out at about 20 million of ore gathered per hour.


Rough estimate 3750hours mining = 156.25days mining + 27day production + 41days component production (11 lines)
= 224.25 days to make a single Titan

This is with TE 20 (1k+ days reasearch on a Titan) and using 1 character manufacturing at a POS, add 3 days for Titan manufacture and we are down to more realistic TE levels on :)

So its takes around 7.5 month to make a single Titan (component production multitasked AFTER all the mining is done), this dont count the hauling that also takes some time...
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#11 - 2015-05-17 17:43:56 UTC
Araikas Rhal
Hair-Trigger
#12 - 2015-05-24 18:26:39 UTC
OP, you dont want that titan anyway. :)

I played other games in my past life. I must have done something wrong to be re-incarnated as an Eve player.

Xayder
NED-Clan
Goonswarm Federation
#13 - 2015-05-24 18:39:55 UTC
for some it takes alot of effort by moving the minerals and time to buildt, 3 months

for others it takes 3 mins to get one

I don't always post, But when i post I do it with my main