EVE New Citizens Q&A

For a start, others have mentioned exploration, industry etc... which is a lot of what I do.

Secondly, CAS is the best NPC corp from what I have seen so you could stay there if you want. (I have an alt there)
(BTW, CAS is having a group roam... you may find you like combat)

No one is doing that, though.

You though jumped in and continuously try to tell people something
that isn't what the OP was talking about.

I have lived through enough threads already where people try to
educate people about what PvP actually means and why this game is a PvP sandbox ...

... which is said directly from the developers themselves.


You should be removed for trolling and eeliberately talking crap in the New Players area.
You're just as bad as these horrible people in rookiechat who have no ground tk teach
anyone anything.

Reminds me that I need to petition them.

Since you speak as if you are a Staff member of CCP I will give you the respect that seems to be due to you according to your position. You speak with authority and perhaps that is is with good reason. From my point of view I would be wise to consider you thus.... because for all I know you ARE a Staff member incognito... better to err on the side of caution.

Please do me and others a favor....

Show me/Cite for me EXACTLY where in the EULA and TOS and Rules of the game EVE Online where it says every Player MUST engage in PvP content.

If you can prove to me that it is a requirement of participation in this MMOG to PvP then we all will have an answer to the questions posed so many times on these forums.

I would really like to know the answer to this question once and for all. Thanks.

so...what you say here is commonly refereed to as a Strawman argument.

The Devs have clearly stated that the intent and focus of this game is a PvP sandbox. No one claimed it to be part of the EULA or TOS only that it is the focus and the intent of the game design. That does not mean that you can not play the game in a linear fashion or as a strict PvEer. However if you were to do so and then complain how you don't like the game or that it should be changed to suit your play style you would be literally ignorant.

As a PvE focused player myself, when new players come here in the NC Q&A section of the forums stating that they have a similar interest I like to inform them that their play style is contrary to the intended game design. Not that they can't play the game that way, only that they are swimming up stream so that they know what they are in for.

Are you really that dumb ?
No where did I state my definition of PvP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_versus_player

Read this. It's what I said, in different words.
I hope I am wrong and you aren't *that* dumb.

If you read the above I've written, you'll see that I am exactly talking
about player interaction, making sure every possible perspective is covered.


That's not *my* definition.
Take your ego and put it back into it's bag.

Seriously, you people are completely hopeless and deserve everything that's coming for you.


Think through what is written ...
... after you read it, and ...
... before you start typing !

I am not attempting to "one up" any other poster here, I am not attempting to make anyone else's statement's look false or incorrect. I am not here to "win an argument" or "win the thread".

To me this is simple question.... either the game rules and the Devs require us to PvP or they don't. I desire an answer that cuts through all the opinions. I am not asking this question to anyone else's benefit other than my own.... do I have to PvP according to the rules or not? Is it written in the rules that we must PvP?

If you don't know the answer that's OK with me, for I don't have the answer either and that is why I asked the question here in this forum section. I ask this question not to be a troublemaker, simply to get an informed and correct answer.



The intent and focus of a MMO doesn't make it the mandatory gameplay for Players. It makes it the intended gameplay, nothing more. I respect CCP and their Intent for the game, but their Intent does not require obedience like a Rule(s) from CCP would (or what I agree to in say the EULA or TOS). Their Intent is acceptable to me yes, but if I wish to play EVE in a manner not in strict accordance with their Intent, and yet within the Rules as defined by CCP, then as I understand it I am free to play as I wish to... even if it is mostly in opposition to CCP's Intent.... as long as it is allowed in the Rules.

If hypothetically speaking CCP next week introduced a new requirement that each Player must engage in PvP and show their participation in 5 or 10 killmails during a specified period of time, then that I would clearly see as a requirement for Players to PvP according to the rules, for under that hypothetical circumstance CCP could penalize Players who did not rack up the killmails as required.... this is only hypothetical of course, yet I do not see any ingame mechanism that requires, or forces Players to participate in PvP.

If CCP wants to require their Intent to be observed by all Players than they have the means to make that happen through the game Rules and Game mechanics, otherwise I thank CCP for sharing with me their Intent and I will continue to play this game as I decide to do so.

I asked the question I did in my first post in this thread (46) not to be belligerent, but to honestly seek the correct answer. So I know whether or not the Rules can be read and enforced by CCP that I must PvP. If no rules exist than I will continue to play EvE as I have been, as I desire to do so, even if my desire and gameplay style is mostly in oppostion to CCP's intent and mostly against the opinions of the majority of Players on how they think I should play EvE.

If the Rules state I must PvP, well then it's me that needs to change and I accept that. That's why I want a clear answer.

Yes and no.

In a general sense... you will ALWAYS be in competition and potential conflict with other players.
If you harvest resources before someone else can harvest them, you deny other players that potential wealth.
If you explore and find salvage/relics/modules before someone else can, you deny other players that potential wealth.
If you destroy lots more NPCs than others, you make more ISK from those bounties, which in turn devalues the ISK of everyone else.
If you build more then anyone else, you are crowding out others on market and stepping on their potential income.

And anyone in the game can use any of the above as a pretext for blowing you up in a direct ship engagements (fair or not). Or sometimes they don't even need the pretext at all and will do it for giggles.

And all of the above does not require consent to be done.


However... you are not mechanically obligated to engage back in a direct ship-to-ship confrontation. There is always a way around everything else in the game if you do enough research and understand the mechanics well enough.
And you can engage in "PvP" without ever having to fire a shot at another player.


What EVE is, is a multi-faceted PvP game.
Ship-on-ship violence is often the easiest to see form of PvP... but it isn't the only way to be in conflict with others.
Conflict with others.
That is the key phrase.


edit: as for where this is all written... take a look at the Official Newbie FAQ: http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/communityassets/pdf/EVE-Online-New-Pilot-FAQ.pdf

-Part 1, Section 5-3


-Part 2, Intro


- Part 2, Section 7-Intro


And if you read the DEV blogs, forums posts, and tweets for long enough... the Developers' intent are pretty clear; to bring everything into a reasonable balance between "tears and laughter" (their words, not mine).

As I said previous Intent to me is not binding, but a part you quoted I think is an answer I would consider VALID and not just opinion or intent. There is one point you raise that I think answers my question, and it is this:

-Part 1, Section 5-3



Assuming this document that is referenced was written by CCP (and to me it appears to have been or at least approved by CCP), then in fact every Player must PvP by the definition of the Rules. CCP has defined "PvP" in a way that includes far more actions and activies than most MMO Players would ever consider under a definition of PvP.

I will say I do not entirely view all actions in EvE as PvP oriented but CCP apparently does, and it is their game and they are of course allowed to define PvP as they choose to. I will openly say I do not agree with what PvP is as CCP has defined it.

I have my answer and it's official from CCP.

Thanks for finding the answer. I would have never thought to look in a FAQ. I appreciate your time ShahFluffers.

I'll restate my point more clearly. A strawman argument is when you make it seem someone said something that they did not say usually using similar words so that it is easy to ignore that fact that the other person never said what you are implying they said. This is typically done to win an argument because you first make an easy to disprove statement and then claim your opponent said it and then go on to point out how ridiculous it is.

So now I ask you where in this thread did anyone claim that you "must" PvP and that it is in either the EULA or the ToS that PvP is required? I am fairly certain that was never said because it would be pretty stupid to say and easy to disprove. Therefore it is a straw man argument.

What I know has been said is multiple people claimed that this is a PvP game and that the Devs have stated multiple times in various blogs and interviews that is their focus. I think those comments would be widely accepted as being true by most people that follow the devs at all.

I can go to a golf course and pull out my chess board and play chess with my buddy. Nothing is stopping me from doing this. I've even seen people play poker in the lockerooms of golf courses. However regardless of what game you are playing that does not change the fact that you are at a golf course.

You can PvE in Eve there is no doubt about that. You can largely avoid PvP in Eve there is also probably little doubt about that. However none of those facts changes the fact that this is a game who's intended focus by the people who are developing it is a open world PvP sandbox.

Worth noting that people used to say things like if you don't want to PvP then don't undock. With the new changes coming to outposts and player structures even that is no longer true. People who are currently docked in null sec outposts and have not played the game in a while and thought that their stuff was safe in station no matter what when they stopped playing, in about a year from now could log in to find the station that they logged off in blown up.

So true to the dev's stated goals the game becomes more PvP focused.

Yeah, but in a multiplayer game intentionally playing against the intended design can make you annoying. The guy who decides to follow the beat of his own drum and achieve his own goal of running really fast in a circle in his base in a MOBA, for instance, is going to annoy people and eventually get banned.

In this case, of course, flying solo is fine and the sandbox will even try to accommodate you to an extent, so long as you're aware that you're in a PvP game and there are entirely legitimate reasons for people to blow you up at any given moment. And, in the larger sense, aware that you ARE interacting with other players through the market at minimum. Or in the case of, say, exploration, interacting with other players by actively dodging them and racing them for objectives, etc.

But, as I pointed out before, if you don't like interacting with people at all, it's a bit silly to play an MMO when there is an entire GENRE of single-player games out there delivering exactly the experience you claim to want. It's not a question of you being bad for this game, it's a question of the game being bad for YOU. Like I said, play Skyrim if you want to play Skyrim, don't expect everyone around you to help you turn a multiplayer game into Skyrim. That doesn't work, and TES Online proves it.