Ships & Modules

Here are some of my views on destroyers after the buff:

Thrasher: The Gold Standard

AC Fit – You can fit 200mm and either a MSE or a 400mm plate. Depending on rigs you can get anywhere between 7.25k and 9.5k EHP. You can also get between 300 and 440 DPS with faction ammo overheated.

Arty Fit – 1846 alpha on my fit. Every 5.87 seconds.

Catalyst: An Exercise in Frustration.

Blaster Fit – You can get a full rack of neutrons on but you nerf everything else to the point that it just isn’t worth it. I tried to fit a 400mm plate on it. I ended up needing a fitting rig to put electron blasters on! You can get the gank usually with little thought but are left with a paper tiger. If you fit for tank you’re left with DPS that’s sub Thrasher level. I did have some success with this fit though:

High:
Light Ion Blaster II x 8
Mid:
Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters
Warp Scrambler II
Low:
SAR II
DC II
MFS II
Rigs:
Armor Explosive Pump x 2
Armor Kinetic Pump

6.2k EHP. 366 DPS. It can take a bit of a beating before it goes down.

Rail Fit - I really like the catalyst rail fit. I was surprised in fact at how well it did. The first one I fit took down a Slicer and a shield fit thrasher before getting taken down by another shield fit thrasher.

High:
125mm II x 8
Mid:
Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters
Named Target Painter
Low:
MAPC
MFS II x 2
Rigs:
Hybrid Collision
Hybrid Burst

Less then 4k EHP. 424 DPS Overheated. It is sending 612 alpha down range every 1.53 seconds. You can also swap out a MFS II for a TE II and then replace the target painter with either a tracking computer (tracks like a god then) or a point. This knocks the DPS down to 356 with is still much better then the arty thrasher. It also has some of the surprise quality of the thrasher. The fourth shot is going out at 6.12 seconds while the Thrasher just made it's second at 5.87.

Summary - This ship can shine but it still REALLY needs some more power grid and CPU.

Cormorant: Long Rang Love Taps

Blaster Fit - No experience

Rail Fit - This is not a solo ship. But when you have dedicated tacklers it causes tears and is really fun in faction warfare.

High:
150mm II x 7
Mid:
AB II
Tracking Computer II x 2
Sensor Booster II
Low:
MFS II
Rigs:
Small Ancillary Current Router x 2
Small Ionic Field Projector

90km lock range. It can throw ammo that far too. Lots of fun when you're backing up other friends in a plex. It even made the vaunted thrasher turn tail.

Summary - This was designed to shoot far and since frigates dont' really tank - it actually works. It is not a solo boat. It also is atrociously slow. It doesn't even make 700m/s. A little more fitting to squeeze in a MWD would be great - but probably not particularly balanced considering it's range.

Coercer - No Experience.

Anyways, share your thoughts.

The only one i have flew is The Catalyst. Have some good fights in it but after the hype post-exp i just don' t feel i wanna fly it again. Mostly because now not every rifter, t1 frigate and bad tanked ships will engage you knowing that you can be a threat.
They don' t shine but at least they are not useless as before, except the trasher that was good before and now is just epic for how much it cost (Minnie wins again:p)

Btw with the AF buff they will became obsolete again, calling it now.

My take on the sniper cormy:

[Cormorant, Railing]

150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
150mm Railgun II, Spike S
[Empty High slot]

Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters
Warp Disruptor II
Stasis Webifier II

Micro Auxiliary Power Core II

Small Core Defence Field Extender I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Core Defence Field Extender I


105 DPS at 72+7.5km with Spike and targeting to 72km. 184DPS at 13+12km with Jav; MWD web, dissy so you can kite if you want to and if you stuff up can at least hold down the opposition. 4.3k EHP. 1533m/s.

Not completely useless and one of the few MAPCII uses I've yet found.

Cormorant + MSE + scram + web + MWD

75mm guns - spike (long range) ammo gives you all the range you need if you need to hit out to long ranges. otherwise just use caldari navy antimatter.

The thrasher has most of its CPU, grid and cap available after fitting guns unlike its cousins. It is the only one you can fit for gank and tank. Therefore, it is by far the superior choice unless you want to snipe pods/frigs/inties or suicide gank in high sec. The coercer is solid, even with one mid, but the fitting and cap requirements are extreme.

With a paperthin setup you can push 284dps past 20km however:
[Coercer, fhc]

Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S
Dual Light Pulse Laser II, Scorch S

Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters

Damage Control II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Small Energy Locus Coordinator I
Small Energy Locus Coordinator I
Small Energy Locus Coordinator I

1679m/s, cap lasts 3m, source: FHC.

I've used this with medium succes: it's a great contribution to a smallish fleet but even a couple of drones will kill you, much less being called primary.

Always enjoy it when people use a ships inability to fit biggest guns + tank + 400m2 condo as reasoning for increasing fittings

That said, Catalyst could do with a bit more room to allow for not-quite-instadeath blaster fits and Cormy really does need a bit more mobility .. but they really do shine with rails so question is how much to give them without breaking them (read: make them OP or pigeon-holing them).

Thrasher is indeed the gold standard as it is and always has been incredibly easy to fit and fly. Balancing destroyers would mean "nerfing" Thrasher's rather than boosting the others as a boost of the size needed would ruin what little balance remains when it comes to 'destroyers vs. everything else'.
I have previously lobbied for AC fitting increases as a partial solution to not only Trash but all projectile platforms, ran into a cacophony of "GBTWOW" and other nastiness from the FoTM jockeys though so decided to let it rest until people got fed up with seeing projectiles everywhere

Coercer by the way is :awesomesauce:. Sure, it doesn't tackle but with damage and projection like nothing else it provides dps long before and long after most others have given up or are wrecks.
Apart for the one midslot "issue", they are probably the most perfectly balanced of the lot as they have room for gank and tank but never at the same time while only requiring fitting mods for extreme fits.

With destoyers having the scan resolution of frigates the sig radius just a bit over frigates, larger tank and more cap than frigates and the dps of a cruiser yet using frigate sized guns - who needs frigates anymore?

I'm not really sure what purpose all those frigate classed ships serve anymore other than as targets for destroyers.

IMHO Destroyers should have their scan resolution nerfed.

You are right I meant scan resolution. Will edit my post.

I get those mixed up allot.

Edit: I'm showing a thrasher has the same speed as a merlin same scan resolution and bit larger sig 56 versus 40 sig. Much better tank.

Winmatar vs. lolCaldari?

EAF - Quite some time ago I suggested that they get that AB bonus. There's only one per race so it's harder for it to be unbalanced and it would contribute to them surviving longer. Recently I've had a mind that since so many get cap bonuses that would be the way to go for a role bonus. The truth is that EAF are very broken and they will have to sit down and hammer out a solutions.

Destroyers - The Thrasher gets right at 8k EHP and puts out 300- 440 DPS consistently. The other destroyers you have to play a game of twister to fit. Why fly the Coercer when the Retribution offers more? (Soon - TM) Why fly the Catalyst when you have the Enyo? I'm just looking ahead.