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Query about the GIla.
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Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#41 - 2015-05-13 22:10:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Melody Axon wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Iain Cariaba wrote:
So, are we officially moving from whining about Tengus-Online and Ishtars-Online to now whining about Gilas-Online?

If people spent half as much time thinking about different ways to fight whatever the OP-Ship-of-the-Month as they spent whining about it...


The forums have made it "Whiners Online". There's always gonna be a ship that people are gonna whine and whine about in the forums because they have gotten to lazy to strategize. There's only one ship that the complaints were justified and that's the Ishtar with having that massive drone bay with sentries. There's another ship called the Othrus that really is OP, but you don't hear too many complaints about it........why? Answer, because it's not a drone boat.


1) I'm not whining about the Gila, I'm confused why it has such a large drone bay and wondering what people would think about a slight reduction to its drone bay. And if people think that the reduction of the drone bay wouldn't affect the Gila at all, then what would be the problem of the drone bay reduction?

2) Sure, the Orthrus is also OP, and arguably even more OP than the Gila, but I haven't thought up of a way that seems reasonable to reduce it's power. If you have any ideas, feel free to post them on the forum.


I dislike whining. I'd rather come up with an anti-strategy against a ship that causes controversy. Either that or I follow the "if you can't beat em, join em" rule.


P.S.........3 of my alts fly Ishtar.........
Melody Axon
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#42 - 2015-05-13 22:29:12 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:


P.S.........3 of my alts fly Ishtar.........


Yay for you that you have Ishtar flying alts? Why you felt the need to point that out I have no idea, this thread isn't even about Ishtars.
Tusker Crazinski
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#43 - 2015-05-13 22:44:59 UTC
motie one wrote:
No not supported.

Sorry you are having problems fighting this ship, but trying alternative tactics may help.

Different ships with different flavours is a great design, nerfing them all down to a flavourless gruel is not.

Or do you believe that missile ships should only be able to carry three reloads too?

After all do you think that ships spewing neverending streams of missiles are overpowered for PVP?

No?

Try fighting the ship and not the weapon, sorry if you have to think differently from fighting other drone boats.

Besides, with an appropriate weapon system, Gila drones are just more gristly meat to the grinder.


funny thing is there's little to no tactics or counter tactics to both the weapon systems you've mentioned, and the gila uses both of them.

anyway, when a gila lands and grid it'll go one of two ways, either you can trade damage with it favorably at which point the gila is either dead or will disengage, or you can't then you need to disengage or enjoy a losemail. The Gila is one of those ships with a massive and generally capless tank, along with capless DPS that gives no fucks about range.

I'm yet to be killed by a Gila, they're not particularly fast. they're just really boring and trade unmitigatable damage favorably with most hulls in their class. hell most BCs for that matter.
Melody Axon
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#44 - 2015-05-14 07:35:28 UTC
Tusker Crazinski wrote:


I'm yet to be killed by a Gila, they're not particularly fast.


That is one thing I did notice when playing around on EFT. The Cynabal and Orthrus run rings around it, and even a 1600mm plated Vigilant is faster.
Yossarian Toralen
M and M Enterpises
#45 - 2015-05-14 10:49:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Yossarian Toralen
To the uninitiated, you can only field 4 light unbonused drones at a time, so there's a big hole in the gilas defence, unbonused sentries are a waste of time and space and the ship being slow doesn't help matters. Compared to other drone boats the drone bay is tiny and for the missiles they don't even do a lot of damage.

Smart bombs destroy both drones and missiles, so saying that you can't defend against them is a bit off, it's like saying my brawler got shot down by a kiter and something needs to change because I fly brawlers.

While you can run level 4's with them they do have trouble with some missions due to lack of ability to deal with frigates, most are a cakewalk.

So if you want every ship that you have trouble dealing with due to bringing the wrong tools for the job, this will be a very lackluster and boring game with little or no choice.

-1 from me.
Melody Axon
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#46 - 2015-05-14 11:04:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Melody Axon
Yossarian Toralen wrote:
To the uninitiated,... unbonused sentries are a waste of time and space

-1 from me.


Hahahaha, do you even fly a Gila? You can't deploy sentries in a Gila, it doesn't have the bandwidth. And smartbombing a Gila's drones? Sure, that works. If the Gila pilot is brain-dead. Have you seen the HP of those drones?

-1 for your post, because you have no idea what you're talking about.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#47 - 2015-05-14 11:29:54 UTC
Melody Axon wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:


P.S.........3 of my alts fly Ishtar.........


Yay for you that you have Ishtar flying alts? Why you felt the need to point that out I have no idea, this thread isn't even about Ishtars.


You obviously didn't get that punch line. If you fear a certain type of ship and have no knowledge on how to counter it, then train for that ship yourself. You'll learn about a ship's weakness and strength much faster when you actually fly the ship. Either that or train for the Ishtar. P
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#48 - 2015-05-14 11:31:01 UTC
I'll say the Gila is fine as is. My basis? If 5 Gilas land on grid I say get them boys and a fight ensues. Win, lose or withdraw - there is a fight.

If 5 ishtards land on grid I call to bail, because screw them.

I could care less about mission performanc so other folks can weigh in on that.

-1 to nerf the gila. They bring reasonable and fun fights.
Phaade
LowKey Ops
Snuffed Out
#49 - 2015-05-14 15:49:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Phaade
elitatwo wrote:
Phaade wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
How about giving the Rattlesnake a bigger dronebay instead of complaining about pirate ships.

Not supported.


Are you aware of what you type before you hit post?

I feel most times you are not.

Supported OP.


I am very aware of what I write and how I write it, you may have noticed that. It is no secret that ZEE ZOOPER tactic for zee drone ships is to shoot zee drones and who came up with that first should biomass and apologize.

So let's make a deal and the day I can shoot your guns of your ship I stop complaining about people shooting drones.

Moving on, the only thing I read in this thread is 'pirate boat stronger than mine, BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH..'

Yes, pirate factions ships are stronger than yours and guess what, they are supposed to. Every single one of them.


Sure, give my turrets the EHP of well fit frigates, and give me 5 replacement sets for each turret.

That sounds reasonable.

OH WAIT.

You are still trying to make that garbage argument. It has been destroyed many, many times. Please, for the good of all mankind, stop.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#50 - 2015-05-14 16:15:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Ishtar
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Gila
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Vexor_Navy_Issue

Medium drones are 10 m3.

Gila can field 2 / 100 * 500 + 2 = 12 Effective medium drones.
Ishtar 5 / 100 * 50 + 5 = 7.5 Effective medium drones.
VNI is the same as Ishtar.

Ishtar can carry 56.52 Effective medium drones, Gila can carry 60 Effective medium drones, with Vexor Navy Issue 30 mediums - the ratio of fielded drones is 1.6, so Gila with a dronebay of +-60-70 m3 would be proper, which would equal to 36-42 Effective medium drones.

Ishtard is balanced, if you can call it that way, in that most of its damage comes from Heavies/Sentries. A dronebay of 375 m3 is still huge.

A Rattlesnake carries 42 drones and the Worm 30.

Grave inconsistency.

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
Iain Cariaba
#51 - 2015-05-14 18:09:55 UTC
Phaade wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
Phaade wrote:
elitatwo wrote:
How about giving the Rattlesnake a bigger dronebay instead of complaining about pirate ships.

Not supported.


Are you aware of what you type before you hit post?

I feel most times you are not.

Supported OP.


I am very aware of what I write and how I write it, you may have noticed that. It is no secret that ZEE ZOOPER tactic for zee drone ships is to shoot zee drones and who came up with that first should biomass and apologize.

So let's make a deal and the day I can shoot your guns of your ship I stop complaining about people shooting drones.

Moving on, the only thing I read in this thread is 'pirate boat stronger than mine, BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHH..'

Yes, pirate factions ships are stronger than yours and guess what, they are supposed to. Every single one of them.


Sure, give my turrets the EHP of well fit frigates, and give me 5 replacement sets for each turret.

That sounds reasonable.

OH WAIT.

You are still trying to make that garbage argument. It has been destroyed many, many times. Please, for the good of all mankind, stop.

Just because you're bad at killing them doesn't make them broken. Trust me, I've lost enough Gilas to know they arent as OP as you think they are.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#52 - 2015-05-15 01:22:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Ishtar
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Gila
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Vexor_Navy_Issue

Medium drones are 10 m3.

Gila can field 2 / 100 * 500 + 2 = 12 Effective medium drones.
Ishtar 5 / 100 * 50 + 5 = 7.5 Effective medium drones.
VNI is the same as Ishtar.

Ishtar can carry 56.52 Effective medium drones, Gila can carry 60 Effective medium drones, with Vexor Navy Issue 30 mediums - the ratio of fielded drones is 1.6, so Gila with a dronebay of +-60-70 m3 would be proper, which would equal to 36-42 Effective medium drones.

Ishtard is balanced, if you can call it that way, in that most of its damage comes from Heavies/Sentries. A dronebay of 375 m3 is still huge.

A Rattlesnake carries 42 drones and the Worm 30.

Grave inconsistency.


The Gila is slow as hell, it needs those drones to survive when long pointed by anything. I guarantee that a reduced drone bay Gila drones will always be primaried immediately while (once dead) they can take their time killing the actual ship without fear of it escaping. The only way for the ship to defend itself from kiters is from the abundance of the powerful medium drones at it's disposal, the missiles don't have the velocity bonus to hit beyond 30km.
Yossarian Toralen
M and M Enterpises
#53 - 2015-05-15 10:10:22 UTC
Melody Axon wrote:
Yossarian Toralen wrote:
To the uninitiated,... unbonused sentries are a waste of time and space

-1 from me.


Hahahaha, do you even fly a Gila? You can't deploy sentries in a Gila, it doesn't have the bandwidth. And smartbombing a Gila's drones? Sure, that works. If the Gila pilot is brain-dead. Have you seen the HP of those drones?

-1 for your post, because you have no idea what you're talking about.



So you completely overlook every point I make about the gila but the mistake about the sentries, you are a winner.


You got negative feedback on reddit because your idea and small amount of reasoning is well below average, go get some tactics.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#54 - 2015-05-15 10:34:32 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Ishtar
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Gila
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Vexor_Navy_Issue

Medium drones are 10 m3.

Gila can field 2 / 100 * 500 + 2 = 12 Effective medium drones.
Ishtar 5 / 100 * 50 + 5 = 7.5 Effective medium drones.
VNI is the same as Ishtar.

Ishtar can carry 56.52 Effective medium drones, Gila can carry 60 Effective medium drones, with Vexor Navy Issue 30 mediums - the ratio of fielded drones is 1.6, so Gila with a dronebay of +-60-70 m3 would be proper, which would equal to 36-42 Effective medium drones.

Ishtard is balanced, if you can call it that way, in that most of its damage comes from Heavies/Sentries. A dronebay of 375 m3 is still huge.

A Rattlesnake carries 42 drones and the Worm 30.

Grave inconsistency.


The Gila is slow as hell, it needs those drones to survive when long pointed by anything. I guarantee that a reduced drone bay Gila drones will always be primaried immediately while (once dead) they can take their time killing the actual ship without fear of it escaping.


Excuses, excuses.

Sixty effective drones. Five flights of bonused drones. Blink

Quote:
The only way for the ship to defend itself from kiters is from the abundance of the powerful medium drones at it's disposal, the missiles don't have the velocity bonus to hit beyond 30km.


Try fitting something other than HAMs for a change. Smile

// [PvP Damage Done by Class (Scylla)] //

[Cruisers Online]
Fourteen Maken
Karma and Causality
#55 - 2015-05-15 11:09:51 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:


The Gila is slow as hell, it needs those drones to survive when long pointed by anything. I guarantee that a reduced drone bay Gila drones will always be primaried immediately while (once dead) they can take their time killing the actual ship without fear of it escaping. The only way for the ship to defend itself from kiters is from the abundance of the powerful medium drones at it's disposal, the missiles don't have the velocity bonus to hit beyond 30km.


I have problems recycling drones in a tristan but only when im trying to kite a brawler because he webs my drones and approaches them so they can't escape, but kiters rely on speed to avoid dps and don't have a web fitted so usually don't bother shooting at drones. I haven't flown a Gila but I imagine a kiter won't be interested in shooting your drones either, if he does you have time to recall them and send a fresh one out because he can't pin them down and they have a lot of hit points. If he can't outrun the drones he'll probably bail, and if he can outrun your drones he'll probably focus on your hull and let the drones chase him.

I can't really think of a situation where someone would try to chew through all that drone HP unless you were the one kiting him.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#56 - 2015-05-15 11:15:56 UTC
It is more like "Pretty please don't nerf my 80k EHP, 700 DPS, Omni damage Two-weapons systems cap-independent cruiser!.."

Blink

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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#57 - 2015-05-15 11:25:38 UTC
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
It is more like "Pretty please don't nerf my 80k EHP, 700 DPS, Omni damage Two-weapons systems cap-independent cruiser!.."

Blink


900 dps more like

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#58 - 2015-05-16 11:45:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
It is more like "Pretty please don't nerf my 80k EHP, 700 DPS, Omni damage Two-weapons systems cap-independent cruiser!.."

Blink


Oh please, After what they did to the T3D's I really couldn't care less what CCP decides to nerf these days let alone the Gila. And for your info I don't use missiles simply because they don't look as cool as lasers. I just like the convenience that the Gila provides since all my characters can fly it. And please don't get this guy above me started. If it was up to him every ship in eve would continually get nerfed on a regular basis.
Hakaari Inkuran
State War Academy
Caldari State
#59 - 2015-05-16 13:57:55 UTC
Melody Axon wrote:
Yes, I posted this on reddit. Yes I expect to receive negative feedback, but I'm hoping that maybe, just maybe, on the EVE-forums I might actually get some actual reasons why this is a bad idea. And if this has already been proposed, I am sorry. So, with this introduction out of the way, onto the show.

There are always people going on about how certain ships are OP and the Gila is one of the ones that is always brought up. I've been playing around with some EFT fits for different ships, and when coming to the Gila I noticed something that I feel could be changed for a subtle, but possibly effective, nerf on the Gila. The drone bay.

The Worm gets 2.5 flights of bonused drones (25 m3/10 m3)

The Rattlesnake gets 3.5 flights of bonused drones (175 m3/50 m3)

The Gila, this apparently OP cruiser, gets FIVE flights of bonused drones (100 m3/20 m3).

So, denizens of the EVE forums. Do you think a small nerf in a reduction of the drone bay of the Gila to 60 m3 (giving 3 flights of bonused drones, to bring it in line between the Worm (frigate) and Rattlesnake (BS) would bring the Gila down a little bit in its dominance?

I personally feel it would be a good change, as it would still allow for a variety of drones to be carried along, while also increasing the viability of actually shooting down the Gila's drones to reduce the incoming damage.

So, thoughts?
i didnt even notice its drone bay was out of line. +1 implement this immediately.
Iroquoiss Pliskin
9B30FF Labs
#60 - 2015-05-16 15:51:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Iroquoiss Pliskin
Daniela Doran wrote:
Iroquoiss Pliskin wrote:
It is more like "Pretty please don't nerf my 80k EHP, 700 DPS, Omni damage Two-weapons systems cap-independent cruiser!.."

Blink
If it was up to him every ship in eve would continually get nerfed on a regular basis.


Nothing wrong with a 80k EHP, 850 DPS omni damage cap-independent cruiser hull then? Smile

The topic doesn't even touch upon the above fact, and merely states the discrepancy in dronebay volumes within the same Pirate ship tree.

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