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Intergalactic Summit

 
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[P.P.C.] Announcement of Pakhshi Peace Conference

Author
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#121 - 2015-05-14 01:12:47 UTC
Tabor Murn wrote:
Spin this however you like Amarrian. The fact that you invoke the name of Arkon Sarain in your post does him a tremendous disservice. I think he at least would have the decency not to refer as his fellow delegates as "malcontents" nor would he rush to IGS to smear his opponents.

Your kind made it quite clear that no Matari voice was welcome in this sham of a conference. Amarr and Caldari delegates outnumbered their Minmatar and Gallente peers. It was only natural to expect that every Minmatar voiced commission was either voted down, or twisted to your purposes before the commission was even formed. Every Amarr or Caldari proposal sailed through. More than once were Minmatar delegates silenced by the chair of the commitee before being able to voice their objections.

It's quite clear what sort of peace your lot are after. The same as always. You wish to get your way and everyone else must bend their knee to your wishes.


As I said, the minutes will doubtless reflect my praise for the delegates' accomplishments today. The commission that you refer to we accepted exactly as your side proposed it except that we wished for the two issues be decided separately. We support both causes of combating the illegal slave trade as well as preventing slave abuse and would have entertained we simply thought the questions were best addressed separately with the knowledge that future proposals from both could be combined by the General Congress if necessary. I was honestly surprised such offense was taken for dividing the question, which the majority of delegates seemed to also thing was the right and proper course of action.

Personally I would have not pursued the division, even though I think the combination of issues at the committee stage is deleterious to their resolution, had I known the reaction the you and the other two delegates would have.

As to your claim that Matari representatives were not permitted to speak that is simply not true, again as the minutes will reflect. They were afforded the same rights of discourse by parliamentary procedure as other delegates and were only reprimanded when speaking out of turn. In fact, I believe the Honorable Delegate Ayallah made the longest speech permitted in today's proceedings despite possible time violations.

I would advice the conference organizers to leave an open invitation for your return and I hope that, upon reflection, you see fit to come back and help us in this grand undertaking.

On a personal note, I would very much appreciate it if you would refrain from bearing false witness of my devotion to the Honorable Doctor's work and implying that I am doing a disservice to his memory. He was a dear friend in life to me and your words, I am sure spoken in haste, hurt me.

Peace in our time.

"I give you the destiny of Faith, and you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens: Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given." - Book of Reclaiming 22:13

Liam Antolliere
Doomheim
#122 - 2015-05-14 15:07:59 UTC
In the interests of candidness, I have submitted the following for consideration within the conference administration. With permission, I am copying it here for the delegates and public to view and offer feedback.

Liam Antolliere wrote:

Chair and Administrator Onzo,

Given the recent mishap regarding the structure of the conference and the tallying of votes, I feel a review of structure is in order. This oversight has caused a loss of confidence in the conference and a loss of interest and enthusiasm by at least one party and likely more.

I propose the following restructure:

Each representative polity (faction or corporation) should convene to elect a representative to speak and vote on the polity's behalf. This will relegate each political faction's interest to a singular vote. There are a few ways this could be accomplished, none of them overly graceful but some less complex than others.

The most simple solution would be to organize parties into groups based on national affiliations (Amarr Empire, Minmatar Republic, Gallente Federation, Caldari State, Angels, Serpentis, Guristas, Independent).
Pros:

  • Fewest vote total (making easier vote tally)
  • Eliminates largest discepancy of partipant population (evens the numbers the most)


Cons:

  • Does not account for divisions within factions (Empire families, Federal voter blocs, etc)
  • Bolsters power of "swing" votes (independent vote becomes most crucial on every topic)
  • Increases likelihood of ties (fewer voting parties, more clear divisions, voters abstaining due to internal divisions)


Another way would be to permit internal divisions gaining representation. The best way to bring about this organization would be to have each faction's representatives convene and divide themselves into one, two or three individual polities based on political divisions within the faction. There is a caveat however; in order to prevent abuse of the divisions (one party claiming as many divisions as possible in order to gain more votes), each faction will need to be limited to the same number of divisions based on the minimum number afforded by any indivdiual polity. (Lowest common denominator).

Pros:

  • Allows for more nuanced approach to topics
  • Considers internal political divisions and gives them a voice
  • Increases overall voter representation


Cons:

  • Eliminates smaller discrepancy of participant population
  • Still subject to abuse if voter groups rally by factional banner on topics
  • Increases vote tally


Perhaps a compromise between the two could be found? However, those are the two simplest solutions to the dilemma. Obviously we wish to encourage continued participation from as many parties as possible and we owe an unequivocal, and public, apology to the Minmatar delegation that was overshadowed due to a raw democratic process since it is our failure to notice the voter discrepancy that led to the problem.

I would also strongly recommend a reconvening of this session following the restructure to reapproach each topic under the new structure and permit a more fair and balanced resolution. That, however, is your discretion.

Respectfully,

~O.J. Antolliere, PRO

"Though the people may hate me, that does not relieve me of my charge."

Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#123 - 2015-05-14 15:46:40 UTC
I don't know. It's all indeed not very graceful. I particularly see problems when it comes to Independent Delegates, their views could differ in various ways on various points, likely more often than the other groups.

Maybe if we apply one of these structures, it would still be best if we still allowed all delegates to vote on each proposal, but the delegates' votes would only decide what their polity/faction vote would be.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#124 - 2015-05-14 16:55:55 UTC
We should obviously weight the vote allocation of the different factions. Give the mainstream factions a number of votes and allow the total of the Independent factions to equal a single mainstream faction - allowing them to act as a tiebreaker but not giving them the same say as a major faction.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Lunarisse Aspenstar
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#125 - 2015-05-14 17:10:08 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
We should obviously weight the vote allocation of the different factions. Give the mainstream factions a number of votes and allow the total of the Independent factions to equal a single mainstream faction - allowing them to act as a tiebreaker but not giving them the same say as a major faction.



This suggestion makes the most sense out of the various I've seen circulated so far today.
Liam Antolliere
Doomheim
#126 - 2015-05-14 17:42:41 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
We should obviously weight the vote allocation of the different factions. Give the mainstream factions a number of votes and allow the total of the Independent factions to equal a single mainstream faction - allowing them to act as a tiebreaker but not giving them the same say as a major faction.




This is essentially what our internal discussion has been leaning toward. We are still discussing the specifics and the eventual decision will be announced here. In the meantime, please continue to provide feedback as it helps arrive at a solution that would be most equitable for all involved parties.

Thank you.

"Though the people may hate me, that does not relieve me of my charge."

Ayallah
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#127 - 2015-05-14 19:00:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Ayallah
Ibrahim Tash-Murkon wrote:
As I said, the minutes will doubtless reflect my praise for the delegates' accomplishments today. The commission that you refer to we accepted exactly as your side proposed it except that we wished for the two issues be decided separately. We support both causes of combating the illegal slave trade as well as preventing slave abuse and would have entertained we simply thought the questions were best addressed separately with the knowledge that future proposals from both could be combined by the General Congress if necessary. I was honestly surprised such offense was taken for dividing the question, which the majority of delegates seemed to also thing was the right and proper course of action.

Personally I would have not pursued the division, even though I think the combination of issues at the committee stage is deleterious to their resolution, had I known the reaction the you and the other two delegates would have.

As to your claim that Matari representatives were not permitted to speak that is simply not true, again as the minutes will reflect. They were afforded the same rights of discourse by parliamentary procedure as other delegates and were only reprimanded when speaking out of turn. In fact, I believe the Honorable Delegate Ayallah made the longest speech permitted in today's proceedings despite possible time violations.

I would advice the conference organizers to leave an open invitation for your return and I hope that, upon reflection, you see fit to come back and help us in this grand undertaking.

On a personal note, I would very much appreciate it if you would refrain from bearing false witness of my devotion to the Honorable Doctor's work and implying that I am doing a disservice to his memory. He was a dear friend in life to me and your words, I am sure spoken in haste, hurt me.

Peace in our time.

It was not accepted exactly as I said but instead split into two issues which effect the commission I proposed, but do not have the same purpose, intention, or scope. The fact that it was able to be split in half before I even had a chance to counter, clarify or suggest my own alternative into two commissions on related subjects as you said is equal to what all delegates get but was still unacceptable.

Having read your responses here and that you sent privately and having spoken to other Delagates from the Amarrian side I believe we have a solution that will be proposed today. (edit: when the conference resumes.)

I would like to thank you and the other delegates who I have spoken to over the night for you candor and dedication to the ideals of peace.

Goddess of the IGS

As strength goes.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#128 - 2015-05-14 21:11:08 UTC
Liam Antolliere wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
We should obviously weight the vote allocation of the different factions. Give the mainstream factions a number of votes and allow the total of the Independent factions to equal a single mainstream faction - allowing them to act as a tiebreaker but not giving them the same say as a major faction.




This is essentially what our internal discussion has been leaning toward. We are still discussing the specifics and the eventual decision will be announced here. In the meantime, please continue to provide feedback as it helps arrive at a solution that would be most equitable for all involved parties.

Thank you.



Okay. Given the dynamic nature of attendance, the way the votes should be counted would be to tabulate them as before and then divide the number of faction votes by the number of voters from that faction, on all sides of the question. For example, if the Matari have two delegates voting then each of their votes add 5 points to whatever side each of them picks. If the Amarr have 5 delegates then each of their votes adds 2 points to whatever side each of them picks.

So if 1 Matari and 1 Amarrian vote for A and 1 Matari and 3 Amarrians vote for B and 1 Amarrian votes for C you get:

A = 7 votes
B = 11 votes
C = 2 votes

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Kale Silence
Doomheim
#129 - 2015-05-14 22:49:18 UTC
I'm curious.

Why do the votes matter? You have no decision-making authority over meRoll
Vizage
Capital Allied Industrial Distribution
#130 - 2015-05-14 22:53:16 UTC
Kale Silence wrote:
I'm curious.

Why do the votes matter? You have no decision-making authority over meRoll


That's quite the ego to assume the votes have anything to do with you.
Kale Silence
Doomheim
#131 - 2015-05-14 23:00:30 UTC
Vizage wrote:
Kale Silence wrote:
I'm curious.

Why do the votes matter? You have no decision-making authority over meRoll


That's quite the ego to assume the votes have anything to do with you.


Well thus my question. Roll
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#132 - 2015-05-14 23:04:27 UTC
It is to try to assess whether or not the Conference can come to conclusions without having to have month long debates and discussions.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#133 - 2015-05-15 05:11:06 UTC
Kale Silence wrote:
I'm curious.

Why do the votes matter? You have no decision-making authority over meRoll


Why do you think we give a damn about you? This is about pro-offering suggestions aimed at solving problems between the Empires, not a single itinerant Matari capsuleer. You'll do what you damn well always have - what all of us do - whatever you want. Frankly, suggesting ways to the Empires to rein Capsuleers in would be a bit self-defeating of the conference.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#134 - 2015-05-15 08:12:52 UTC
Tabor Murn wrote:

Your kind made it quite clear that no Matari voice was welcome in this sham of a conference. Amarr and Caldari delegates outnumbered their Minmatar and Gallente peers.



The only time any Minmatar or Gallente should speak is to ask 'Would you like Fries with that?' after the Amarr and Caldari have ordered their burgers.

Anything else coming from the mouths of either race would just be a lie anyway.
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#135 - 2015-05-15 08:35:54 UTC
IbanezLaney wrote:
Tabor Murn wrote:

Your kind made it quite clear that no Matari voice was welcome in this sham of a conference. Amarr and Caldari delegates outnumbered their Minmatar and Gallente peers.



The only time any Minmatar or Gallente should speak is to ask 'Would you like Fries with that?' after the Amarr and Caldari have ordered their burgers.

Anything else coming from the mouths of either race would just be a lie anyway.


yes we remain silent when you enjoy the special sauce on your burgers soo much Cool

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#136 - 2015-05-15 11:22:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Leopold Caine
Don't feed the racist agent provocateur's trawling, Lan. It's simply not worth the effort.

Tabor Murn wrote:

It's quite clear what sort of peace your lot are after. The same as always. You wish to get your way and everyone else must bend their knee to your wishes.


While you're at it, you should go and hold Tiberious' hand regarding his 'PPC organizers are Angel sympathizers' conspiracy theory.

You do understand the person who was in charge of approving admittances to the conference is a Federal loyalist and ethnic Gallente himself, right?
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc

Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#137 - 2015-05-15 12:10:57 UTC
Leopold Caine wrote:

You do understand the person who was in charge of approving admittances to the conference is a Federal loyalist and ethnic Gallente himself, right?

It was not meant seriously. You do understand what a joke is, right?

Besides, it is not impossible given the possibility of Federation corruption and Serpentis ties that there would be Gallente sympathetic to the Cartel. I don't think that is the case here, and I feel neither does Tiberious, but it is not an impossible situation.
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#138 - 2015-05-15 12:43:17 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Leopold Caine wrote:

You do understand the person who was in charge of approving admittances to the conference is a Federal loyalist and ethnic Gallente himself, right?

It was not meant seriously. You do understand what a joke is, right?


I haven't got the impression Mr. Tabor Murn was in a joking mood in regards to his post; if so, I don't understand where's the comedic appeal in the whole thing.

If you were referring to Tiberous', and merely don't know how to quote something properly, again... comedic appeal? A bit too much to expect from a Sansha, I know, but...
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc

Cakzad Arcashiri
Arcashiri Family
#139 - 2015-05-15 13:05:45 UTC
I like Pieter's suggestion (the one with the A, B, C and the vote tally and such) and it is my most favorite of all presented.

However, if we are going to go with a Republic voting system I would suggest the following:

Everyday, each political entity (Angel Cartel, Amarr Empire, Minmatar Republic, etc) votes on who will represent them in that days proceedings.

If a member within these entities wanted to propose a commission, the commission would first be proposed to the Delegate's respective entity. The people within that entity would then vote amongst themselves whether or not to propose the Commision.

If the entity voted to propose the vote, it would then be proposed to the General Congress. Each entity then vote amongst themselves to reject or accept the Commission, and the Representative would vote based on their Inner-Entity Vote.

Again, I would much rather go with Pieter's idea, but if you are determined to go republican, this is an idea.

"I give to you the destiny of Faith,

And you will bring its message to every planet of every star in the heavens:

Go forth, conquer in my Name, and reclaim that which I have given."

- The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 22:13

Jili Tonari
Doomheim
#140 - 2015-05-15 13:49:49 UTC
This is a noble effort but...


Can this conference take all Matari from the Empire and send them home?

Can this conference give the Caldari people their homeworld?

Can this conference end the border wars?

Can this conference end organized piracy?

Can this conference communicate with Drifters?

Can this conference save the Jove (if it is not already too late)?

Can this conference end slavery?

Can the results of this conference sway our peoples or governments?

Is this more than an exercise in ego?

“Where must we go, we who wander this wasteland, in search of our better selves.”