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Updating orders once a day and still making a good profit

Author
1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2011-12-27 01:36:26 UTC
Is it possible to do while station trading? I don't log on much now and only really want to update orders 1-2 times a day, maybe 3-4, but I still want to make some good profit.

Also I'd assume Jita probably isn't the best place to do this, best place would probably be a low-key but still popular hub, any suggestions?

-1-Up
5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!  If You Like My Sig, Like Me!   Remember EVE is EVErything!
cigarellos
#2 - 2011-12-27 01:53:24 UTC
I will say this is very possible to do in Jita. It just depends on what kind of product you're trying to buy/sell and the day of the week.
From my experience, I can't never get implants or the popular PI products unless I babysit the orders for a while. However I have other orders on different products that get filled by just updating once or twice a day -- all at Jita 4-4.

-cig
Kosher Jew
#3 - 2011-12-27 02:16:26 UTC
This is definitely possible. Most penny wars happen in Jita but they do happen elsewhere. Use eve-marketdata to find a list of underling hubs and start to fill the shelves.
Mu-Shi Ai
Hosono House
#4 - 2011-12-27 02:43:31 UTC
1-Up Mushroom wrote:
Is it possible to do while station trading? I don't log on much now and only really want to update orders 1-2 times a day, maybe 3-4, but I still want to make some good profit.

Also I'd assume Jita probably isn't the best place to do this, best place would probably be a low-key but still popular hub, any suggestions?

-1-Up


Build up Marketing/Daytrading and expand your number of open orders. Travel to a region without a major trading hub. Place region-wide buy orders for 30-ish different items. Check your buy orders twice a day, once in the morning and once before you go to bed. At the second check time, also search through your assets (keep the items you trade in on a market quicktab so you'll always remember what to search your assets for) and place items with stacks of 3 or more units on sell orders remotely (i.e. at the same station where it was purchased). I usually make sure I've only got one sell order per item per individual station.

Using this method, you've got a whole region at your disposal. Non-hub regions have less frequent competition when it comes to keeping your buy orders on top, so checking twice a day is perfectly reasonable. Maybe a midday check on weekend days for good measure, but twice will do just fine. And really, the only sell orders that will change frequently are ones in stations that are more active in your region. You'll figure out which ones those are eventually just by following this process.

In Jita, or even in one of the other major hubs, it's going to be difficult to stay on top a lot of the items that are worth trading at any given time. In a non-hub region, not only can you stay with a core set of items (rather than having to change with the Jita winds as certain items tend to lose their profitability after a while), but the velocity of competition in each individual item is very low by comparison, while margins are much, much higher. You make up the difference (at least relatively speaking) by trading more items than you perhaps would, and also by leveraging an entire region.

Using this system, it's definitely possible to make good money while checking your orders only a couple times a day.
1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2011-12-27 03:38:40 UTC
Mu-Shi Ai wrote:
1-Up Mushroom wrote:
Is it possible to do while station trading? I don't log on much now and only really want to update orders 1-2 times a day, maybe 3-4, but I still want to make some good profit.

Also I'd assume Jita probably isn't the best place to do this, best place would probably be a low-key but still popular hub, any suggestions?

-1-Up


Build up Marketing/Daytrading and expand your number of open orders. Travel to a region without a major trading hub. Place region-wide buy orders for 30-ish different items. Check your buy orders twice a day, once in the morning and once before you go to bed. At the second check time, also search through your assets (keep the items you trade in on a market quicktab so you'll always remember what to search your assets for) and place items with stacks of 3 or more units on sell orders remotely (i.e. at the same station where it was purchased). I usually make sure I've only got one sell order per item per individual station.

Using this method, you've got a whole region at your disposal. Non-hub regions have less frequent competition when it comes to keeping your buy orders on top, so checking twice a day is perfectly reasonable. Maybe a midday check on weekend days for good measure, but twice will do just fine. And really, the only sell orders that will change frequently are ones in stations that are more active in your region. You'll figure out which ones those are eventually just by following this process.

In Jita, or even in one of the other major hubs, it's going to be difficult to stay on top a lot of the items that are worth trading at any given time. In a non-hub region, not only can you stay with a core set of items (rather than having to change with the Jita winds as certain items tend to lose their profitability after a while), but the velocity of competition in each individual item is very low by comparison, while margins are much, much higher. You make up the difference (at least relatively speaking) by trading more items than you perhaps would, and also by leveraging an entire region.

Using this system, it's definitely possible to make good money while checking your orders only a couple times a day.

...Interesting...Very Interesting...
5 Senses In A Person... 4 Seasons In A Year... 3 Colors In A Stoplight... 2 Poles On The Earth... ONLY 1-UP MUSHROOM!!!  If You Like My Sig, Like Me!   Remember EVE is EVErything!
Socks Malone
Perkone
Caldari State
#6 - 2011-12-27 06:11:18 UTC
Very nice post Mu-Shi Ai

Find a region and products that work for you. My trading acct is more limited by available cash than opportunities.

You should also see how and when your competition is changing their orders and in which areas. Some areas within a region are severely under-served because they don't look like good areas on the map, but in fact are excellent places to make a profit.

My Crane, Charon and Bustard have paid for themselves on my trading acct.

I'm sure some people are making loads supplying drones, missiles and bullets to Incursion runners.
Chwarisma Sarum
Sosarir Storm Tech
#7 - 2011-12-27 21:08:18 UTC
There are ways to do station trading with long update intervals of your offers - once a day, once a week, once a month, whatever you prefer. The following factors are obvious examples how to reduce frequency of competition:


  • Less Active Trading Stations (eg: Jita-4-4 ---> Amarr Prime ---> Tash-Murkon Prime ---> ...
  • Smaller Turnover (eg (global): Melted Nanoribbons (120B) ---> Armor Thermic Hardener (300M) ---> Small Armor Repairer (80M) ---> ...)
  • Greater Trading Radius (eg: Buy at station ---> buy in 3 jumps ---> buy in whole region)


Before I'll give an example, let's introduce a few concepts:

  • Action (A): Creating a new offer, updating an offer or removing an offer
  • Expected Active Life Time of an Offer (T): This is the time, until your buy- or sell-offer is overbid or undercut by another trader.
  • Hourly profit of an Item (p): As long as one of your offers it active, you can expect to profit from it.
  • Profit per Action (P = pT): This is what you want to maximize.


For simplicity's sake, let's assume, that your offers will be dead, once they have lost pool position.

Now we are ready to enjoy some Waffles

  • Mega Waffles: Everybody knows and loves Mega Waffles. Trying to buy or sell them in Jita will be repetitive work, as you'll lose pole position after a few minutes. Moreover, many many traders try to make their fortune with Mega Waffles.
  • P=p*T = 20 million ISK * 3 min = 500 Thousand ISK per action
  • Standard Waffles: Standard Waffles are not as sexy as Mega Waffles, but they are produced and used very often. Thus, they have still a high turnover, but less traders do focus on them.
  • P=p*T = 1 million ISK * 3 hours = 3 Million ISK per action
  • Small Waffles: Small sounds boring, somehow, many pilots find this Small Waffles, but they don't really care. They just want to get rid of them.
  • P=p*T = 50 thousand ISK * 3 days = 3.6 Million ISK per action


An active Waffle Addict might try to trade Mega Waffles a whole day and update his offer 10 times a day and 5 times a week.
---> Weekly Mega Waffle Profit = 10*5*p*T = 50*P = 25 Million .

Someone, who prefers Standard Waffles might update twice a day and 3 times a week.
---> Weekly Standard Waffle Profit = 2*3*p*T = 6*P = 18 Million

And the guy - you - who thinks that there is more in life than waring about big Waffles might update a Small Waffle offer twice a week.
---> Weekly Small Waffle Profit = 2*p*T = 2*P = 7.2 Million

Now let's imagine that the Mega Waffle fan sees nothing but Mega Waffles. But you, the reasonable adventurer, might see many Small XYZ and have time for real adventures, too.



Good Luck with Waffles wishes
Chwarisma Sarum

Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#8 - 2011-12-27 23:53:43 UTC
@OP

This awesome guide to the Slow Sell System is something lost in the past, but that is well worth reading.

It's actually what started me into going beyond 0.01 ISK trading and then into RL trading.
Halle Karnassus
Doomheim
#9 - 2011-12-27 23:56:15 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
@OP

This awesome guide to the Slow Sell System is something lost in the past, but that is well worth reading.

It's actually what started me into going beyond 0.01 ISK trading and then into RL trading.


I normally disagree with what VV posts, but this is actually a good read.
Mu-Shi Ai
Hosono House
#10 - 2011-12-28 00:32:51 UTC
This guide, originally published in 5 parts on EVE Tribune, was really big for me, and basically gave me the basis of my current trading system. I don't do it to support PVP, but it's nevertheless a great way to make ISK if you're not already space rich. (I'd argue that once you're space rich, heading back to Jita and doing long-term speculation is probably the best way to utilize a huge pool of ISK.) Anyway, I was able to dig up a handy-dandy PDF that contains all 5 parts of the original guide. Here you are:

http://www.thinkdreams.com/images/eve_docs/trading/TradingPvP.pdf