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What if all ships needed fuel?

Author
Iris Bravemount
Golden Grinding Gears
#1 - 2015-05-11 22:32:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Iris Bravemount
Imagine if all ships needed fuel.

All ships gain an additional fuel bay. Let's get to what that fuel actually is later.

Fuel consumption would be based on current speed x mass in a non-linear way. The faster you go, the less fuel-efficient you are.

As long as you have fuel, everything functions as before.

Your fuel usage increases when you modify your mass or speed (propmods, plates, hictor bubbles, higgs anchors, skirmish links, implants, you name it).

Bigger ships have more efficient engines, so that BSs don't use as much fuel as whole frigate fleets.

Your fuel consumption could not be decreased by external factors, such as webs.

In warp your fuel consumtion is about the same as when cruising at full speed without a propmod.

Once you have no fuel left, you move at 25% speed and warp at 50% warp speed. Propmods can no longer be activated.

If the numbers are tuned right, this could add an interesting barrier to the speed dominated meta we currently have. Yes, you could still go very fast, but not for a very long time. Depending on how fuel consumption is handeled in warp, it could also be an additional limiting factor for force-projection.

In general it would give bigger slower ships longer autonomies than smaller faster ships.

As to what that fuel could be, I'd consider heavy water, as it's not currently used by any other module.

Edit: It has been suggested that this would be more interesting if it only applied to propmod usage.

"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#2 - 2015-05-11 22:51:20 UTC
I remember someone posting this very same idea long, long ago.

It was bad then... it is still bad now.

Why? Because...
- it doesn't add any "interesting" gameplay
- there is nothing particularly game breaking that it "needs" to throttle back
- it vastly increases tedium
- it basically adds a "usage tax" and/or "penalty" to ships that survive a fight.


What you are really proposing is to nerf speed without actually nerfing speed... while nerfing everything else at the same time.
Zimmer Jones
Lightspeed Enterprises
Goonswarm Federation
#3 - 2015-05-11 23:34:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Zimmer Jones
ShahFluffers wrote:
I remember someone posting this very same idea long, long ago.

It was bad then... it is still bad now.

Why? Because...
- it doesn't add any "interesting" gameplay
- there is nothing particularly game breaking that it "needs" to throttle back
- it vastly increases tedium
- it basically adds a "usage tax" and/or "penalty" to ships that survive a fight.


What you are really proposing is to nerf speed without actually nerfing speed... while nerfing everything else at the same time.



too lazy to look for the thread, but i'm pretty sure i posted it. It is a bad idea, gates are needed for interactivity.

I have the strange premonition that ill have to look for it, though

edit: yeah it was me, sorry. I'll just leave this here
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5068112#post5068112

Use the force without consent and the court wont acquit you even if you are a card carryin', robe wearin' Jedi.

Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
#4 - 2015-05-11 23:41:38 UTC
Iris Bravemount wrote:

In general it would give bigger slower ships longer autonomies than smaller faster ships.



Not sure if you don't do fleet ops....or hate small ships.


Your BS ops would be hampered by added supply logistics to keep support running along side them if the former. These already took hits with warp speed hits to bs and fatigue on bridging.


If the latter....you need support. Accept and move on. CCP by design doesn't have this game level 40 top level raid gear....now go stomp all the lesser beings who lack this. Couple lower beings in smaller ships do things right....they will teach that uber geared level 40 a lesson in humility. And in the value of bringing smaller stuff the next time to counter.


Leto Aramaus
Black Fox Marauders
Pen Is Out
#5 - 2015-05-11 23:51:00 UTC
-1 please no

EVE flight already doesn't feel like Firefly take-the-sky-from-me "freedom" due to the fact that we need to use gates to travel between stars. This makes EVE ships lack the more common sci-fi feeling of self-sufficiency and roaming explorer type of ****.

Making ships use fuel would absolutely trash all over any feeling of space-power that EVE ships have.

Unless we change the space-flight mechanics (warping and gates), fuel would ruin my experience.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#6 - 2015-05-11 23:56:22 UTC
If the speed meta is a problem, nerf the speed of the problem mods or ship. Dont nerf everything ever and add a mandatory and annoying feature.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Mag's
Azn Empire
#7 - 2015-05-12 05:41:19 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
What you are really proposing is to nerf speed without actually nerfing speed... while nerfing everything else at the same time.
This.

It's old idea and still a bad one, so no.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2015-05-12 05:45:58 UTC
I know this is a "What if" post, but I swear I saw some lore page somewhere stating that Minmatar ships use nuclear reactors with Plutonium, whilst other race ships were far more advanced.
Iris Bravemount
Golden Grinding Gears
#9 - 2015-05-12 08:00:50 UTC
Ok so clearly you people think this is a bad idea...

Zan Shiro wrote:
Not sure if you don't do fleet ops....or hate small ships.


Neither actually. The way I imagined it would be that small ships in a fleet would regularily have to refuel at, let's say a DST that accompanies the fleet. It's a defendable asset, EHP wise and wouldn't slow the fleet down (3.3AU/sec base speed). It even has a fleet hangar already. Or they could just take some fuel from larger ships, who will barely notice the small amount the small ship needs.

ShahFluffers wrote:
What you are really proposing is to nerf speed without actually nerfing speed... while nerfing everything else at the same time.


Ok, I see why you are saying that. Then what if only propmod activation required fuel? That would be more specific. Just make MWDs consume over 5 times more tthan ABs, so that they're less efficient and voilĂ ...

Leto Aramaus wrote:
EVE flight already doesn't feel like Firefly take-the-sky-from-me "freedom" due to the fact that we need to use gates to travel between stars. This makes EVE ships lack the more common sci-fi feeling of self-sufficiency and roaming explorer type of ****.


Oh, and you clearly missremember Firefly:

- They run out of fuel in one episode.
- They would also need stargates to leave the system. All the show takes place in a single large system, most planets of which have been more or less terraformed. This is explained at the beginning of the Serinity movie.

"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed

Samillian
Angry Mustellid
Lost Obsession
#10 - 2015-05-12 08:51:38 UTC
I haven't seen this idea surface in quite a while.

Unfortunately I don't see it really adding anything but a further logistics grind to my game time and I have enough of that to deal with already.

Not supported

NBSI shall be the whole of the Law

FireFrenzy
Cynosural Samurai
#11 - 2015-05-12 09:27:19 UTC
i mean does it really do anything other then forcing someone to AFK drive a fleet oiler full of fuel?

AKA its annoying and adds nothing fun
Anthar Thebess
#12 - 2015-05-12 11:14:26 UTC
Just to fly ... no.
But to use a MWD or AB , this could be interesting.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#13 - 2015-05-12 12:06:29 UTC
I think that would be the straw that breaks the back of every last wormhole player.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Anthar Thebess
#14 - 2015-05-12 12:10:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Anthar Thebess
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I think that would be the straw that breaks the back of every last wormhole player.

What part?
If you saying about the MWD and AB using fuel - it depends from what materials this fuel is obtained.
PL is present in WH.

It can be cheep, and easily obtainable , but adding fuel back gives you very important meta game play , as refueling at the battlefield is not always possible.
Frostys Virpio
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2015-05-12 12:14:20 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I think that would be the straw that breaks the back of every last wormhole player.


It would also break the will of players in K space. Not all of them but I'm pretty sure a lot of people like the fact they don't have to deal with planning their roam around the maximum distance they can cross.

Sorry captain but that last warp you did burnt out all the fuel we had left so you will have to abandon the ship and pod your way home. Such good game play...
Iris Bravemount
Golden Grinding Gears
#16 - 2015-05-12 12:18:56 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I think that would be the straw that breaks the back of every last wormhole player.


It would also break the will of players in K space. Not all of them but I'm pretty sure a lot of people like the fact they don't have to deal with planning their roam around the maximum distance they can cross.

Sorry captain but that last warp you did burnt out all the fuel we had left so you will have to abandon the ship and pod your way home. Such good game play...


I suggested a 50% penalty to warp speed when no fuel is left for that exact reason. This will completely cripple your combat abilities, but you can still move the ship to the nearest station for refuelling.

"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed

Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#17 - 2015-05-12 12:20:20 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
I think that would be the straw that breaks the back of every last wormhole player.


Couldn'T even read what the OP meant exactly. Personally I like the proposition of ships being dependent on other ships to harvest things to make other ships keep flying. The thought must've come to many players though.

I don't think there should be restrictive fuel restrictions on caps or subcaps. It just messes things up if the refueling must be done to early, and hardly impacts the gameplay in any meaningful way if the need to refuel occurs more infrequent. Then there are stations everywhere in k-space, and no ice in w-space. From a feeling, fuel should have something to do with ice and in that form it would bugger people that need fuel and can't source it locally in wormholes, with k-space being totally indifferent cause they're very likely to dock once a week.

It would be a kick in the nuts for afk-cloaky gameplay, but that one got nerfed hard enough already.
Anthar Thebess
#18 - 2015-05-12 12:57:20 UTC
Or you can refuel somehow, slooowly over a sun Roll
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#19 - 2015-05-12 14:15:02 UTC
Like so many other ideas this sounds great at first.
And like so many others this one fails when you try to apply it game wide.
And so, like so many other ideas -1
Leliana Cami Cotte
Daylight's Burning
#20 - 2015-05-12 15:03:24 UTC
Anthar Thebess wrote:
Or you can refuel somehow, slooowly over a sun Roll


Triple A Gate side support maybe?

Lookie, I found where to edit my Signature!

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