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Titan Dooms Day not nerf.
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Mr MaltaProject
inFluX.
Good Sax
#1 - 2011-09-12 16:33:16 UTC
While I was driving around today, I turned off my radio. As anyone would do with no one else in the car they start halfway day dreaming in the car. Long story short, I came up with an idea.

This is just my idea don't destroy me for it here.

I think a good way to get more regular capitals on the field is to do a couple things. One would be rebalancing the titan doomsday. The other has to do with the SC's but I've got nothing on that.

Basically, the idea is to make the doomsday an AoE weapon again, but with a catch. Give it the power of the super beam laser it is now, but divide its strength among every target it hits. Say the DD does 2million damage. Well, if the DD his only 5 targets on the field, each target gets hit for 400k damage. Get it yet? This wouldn't be a nerf, atleast I wouldn't think. I don't know. Thoughts?

Another Idea behind the DD rebalance is to leave it alone but add to it. Normally in a fleet fight you wouldn't shoot a cruiser with your DD. It would be wasted. So why not let the DD be scriptable? If you want an AoE DD, just load up the script for it.


These are just thoughts. So, thoughts on my thoughts?
Mr MaltaProject
inFluX.
Good Sax
#2 - 2011-09-13 02:33:22 UTC
bump!
Sigras
Conglomo
#3 - 2011-09-13 03:24:30 UTC
I like the first idea, but its not possible to do because the server would die.

the second idea . . . well lets just say there was a reason that the change was implemented.
Mr MaltaProject
inFluX.
Good Sax
#4 - 2011-09-13 05:02:15 UTC
Sigras wrote:
I like the first idea, but its not possible to do because the server would die.

the second idea . . . well lets just say there was a reason that the change was implemented.



At least you posted an opinion on this. Yeah I feel like the first idea is a lot better than the second but I'll leave them both for other people to see.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#5 - 2011-09-13 05:27:33 UTC
Mr MaltaProject wrote:

This is just my idea don't destroy me for it here.


Welcome to the Features and Ideas forum... where ideas go to die. Big smile

Mr MaltaProject wrote:

Basically, the idea is to make the doomsday an AoE weapon again, but with a catch. Give it the power of the super beam laser it is now, but divide its strength among every target it hits. Say the DD does 2million damage. Well, if the DD his only 5 targets on the field, each target gets hit for 400k damage. Get it yet? This wouldn't be a nerf, atleast I wouldn't think. I don't know. Thoughts?


Sooooo... bring a whole lot of people to the field to disperse the damage as much as possible. 2 million divided by 1000 people equal 2000 raw damage... factoring in resistances, that's not even enough to kill a tanky T2 frigate.

Mr MaltaProject wrote:

Another Idea behind the DD rebalance is to leave it alone but add to it. Normally in a fleet fight you wouldn't shoot a cruiser with your DD. It would be wasted. So why not let the DD be scriptable? If you want an AoE DD, just load up the script for it.


The whole point of the DD nerf from an AoE weapon to a "one-shot-one-kill" beam of death was so that Titans wouldn't be hotdropped on some random small gang and wipe them all out in one go. With the current DD Titans have to pick and choose their targets.

How did you Veterans start?
Mr MaltaProject
inFluX.
Good Sax
#6 - 2011-09-13 06:05:43 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Mr MaltaProject wrote:

This is just my idea don't destroy me for it here.


Welcome to the Features and Ideas forum... where ideas go to die. Big smile

Mr MaltaProject wrote:

Basically, the idea is to make the doomsday an AoE weapon again, but with a catch. Give it the power of the super beam laser it is now, but divide its strength among every target it hits. Say the DD does 2million damage. Well, if the DD his only 5 targets on the field, each target gets hit for 400k damage. Get it yet? This wouldn't be a nerf, atleast I wouldn't think. I don't know. Thoughts?


Sooooo... bring a whole lot of people to the field to disperse the damage as much as possible. 2 million divided by 1000 people equal 2000 raw damage... factoring in resistances, that's not even enough to kill a tanky T2 frigate.

Mr MaltaProject wrote:

Another Idea behind the DD rebalance is to leave it alone but add to it. Normally in a fleet fight you wouldn't shoot a cruiser with your DD. It would be wasted. So why not let the DD be scriptable? If you want an AoE DD, just load up the script for it.


The whole point of the DD nerf from an AoE weapon to a "one-shot-one-kill" beam of death was so that Titans wouldn't be hotdropped on some random small gang and wipe them all out in one go. With the current DD Titans have to pick and choose their targets.



Well I mean, that's idea behind the nerf ya know? I know that SC's need it more than titans, but titans need a small tweak too. I don't know it was just a thought. I was trying to nerf the drive by DD's
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#7 - 2011-09-13 06:46:47 UTC
Iono... i don't think DBDDs (Drive By Doomsdays) are THAT big of an issue (yet). Personally, I find the whole tactic hilariously ******** and risky.

You drop a mega expensive ship on a bunch of small crap, fire off a weapon whose fuel costs equal the cost of the small hull it just erased from existence, and are now paralyzed for 10 minutes while the small gang you dropped on dances around in circles and/or runs away.

How did you Veterans start?
Anshu Zephyran
Knavery Inc.
#8 - 2011-09-13 08:44:12 UTC
How's this for an idea - Doomsday Device stays as a one-target item, but when it blows up a ship, there's a smart-bomb like pulse that deals damage in X radius (no clue what it should be) equal to the hit points of the destroyed ship (not counting resists).
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2011-09-13 09:07:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Substance
Sigras wrote:
I like the first idea, but its not possible to do because the server would die.

Unlike you, computers do not find division hard.

2million / %numberOfShipsOnField is an atomic operation, assuming %NOSOF has been fetched ahead of time, and there's no reason why it couldn't be. It wouldn't stress a pocket calculator.

All you have to do from there is apply that damage to the ships, and that's no more stressful then the original doomsday was, before they made it non AOE.

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#10 - 2011-09-13 16:42:04 UTC
There's only so many ways to nerf the DD. The first most obvious one would be a straight damage nerf. Honestly, from the various news sites this seems to come up alot. Here's one that spells it out the best:

http://www.evenews24.com/2011/08/30/rumour-possible-upcoming-super-capital-changes-on-october/

Another nerf suggested above in this thread would be to divide the damage up by the number of ships present. Two things are going to happen. The first is that so many ships show up the AoE is absolutely ineffective. The second is that there is significant Titan Spam that goes over the top and kills everything. A better AoE weapon would be one that the Titan targets an area of space and effects the surrounding 10km. Or 5km. Or 15km. The distance to be debated.

One solution that I would love to see would be to assign signature resolution to the doomsday. It would still get an automatic hit but the damage would be in direction proportion to the ship's size. Here's some averages:

Frigate - 40m. Cruiser - 125m. BS - 400m. Dread - 3km. Carrier - 3km. SC - 12km. Titan - 16km.

Make the Doomsday a 16km weapon. There are ships out there with massive EHP. The 2 million EHP weapon is needed for them. But for smaller ships? Here's another breakdown in terms of ship type - damage done:

Frigate - 5k. Cruiser - 15.6k. BS - 50k. Dread - 375k. Carrier - 375k. SC - 1.5 m. Titan - 2 m.

It would still hurt alot but the Titan would have to coordinate alot more with the rest of the fleet to guarantee kills. Cool
King Rothgar
Deadly Solutions
#11 - 2011-09-13 17:17:09 UTC
Sig radius does seem very reasonable to me tbh.

[u]Fireworks and snowballs are great, but what I really want is a corpse launcher.[/u]
Ham burgers
Flowers of Happiness
#12 - 2011-09-13 18:46:25 UTC
I would just like to see the DD not insta-pop a well buffered carrier. Rather bring it down to like hull.
Active tanked carriers, sure, blamo
Sigras
Conglomo
#13 - 2011-09-13 19:22:44 UTC
Sir Substance wrote:
Sigras wrote:
I like the first idea, but its not possible to do because the server would die.

Unlike you, computers do not find division hard.

2million / %numberOfShipsOnField is an atomic operation, assuming %NOSOF has been fetched ahead of time, and there's no reason why it couldn't be. It wouldn't stress a pocket calculator.

All you have to do from there is apply that damage to the ships, and that's no more stressful then the original doomsday was, before they made it non AOE.


yes but unlike you, I know how to program.

what he was talking about, I think is a beam that divides its damage between all the ships it intersects. It would be finding the effected ships that would be the problem because you cant just use the number of ships on field, you have to draw a ray with a radius around it and then determine if ships fall within that ray . . . either using sig radius or ship model, you'd have to run a calculation of log N steps against every ship on grid to determine whether or not it was hit.
Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2011-09-13 19:23:51 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Iono... i don't think DBDDs (Drive By Doomsdays) are THAT big of an issue (yet). Personally, I find the whole tactic hilariously ******** and risky.

You drop a mega expensive ship on a bunch of small crap, fire off a weapon whose fuel costs equal the cost of the small hull it just erased from existence, and are now paralyzed for 10 minutes while the small gang you dropped on dances around in circles and/or runs away.


or the large gang that was 3 jumps away gets there, the titan alt-ctrl-qs, and the 200 battleships STILL can't kill it within the 15 minute time limit.
Graeme Rowney
For The Pink
#15 - 2011-09-14 04:07:15 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Sir Substance wrote:
Sigras wrote:
I like the first idea, but its not possible to do because the server would die.

Unlike you, computers do not find division hard.

2million / %numberOfShipsOnField is an atomic operation, assuming %NOSOF has been fetched ahead of time, and there's no reason why it couldn't be. It wouldn't stress a pocket calculator.

All you have to do from there is apply that damage to the ships, and that's no more stressful then the original doomsday was, before they made it non AOE.


yes but unlike you, I know how to program.

what he was talking about, I think is a beam that divides its damage between all the ships it intersects. It would be finding the effected ships that would be the problem because you cant just use the number of ships on field, you have to draw a ray with a radius around it and then determine if ships fall within that ray . . . either using sig radius or ship model, you'd have to run a calculation of log N steps against every ship on grid to determine whether or not it was hit.


High Five for the man that understands that even computers have limitations when it comes to operations on massive data sets !!!
freshspree
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2011-09-14 05:14:17 UTC
OP makes a lot of sense but I don't see any reason to nerf DDs in the first place.
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#17 - 2011-09-14 06:19:08 UTC
freshspree wrote:
OP makes a lot of sense but I don't see any reason to nerf DDs in the first place.

Total obsoletion of dreads doesn't jump out at you, huh?What?
Sir Substance
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2011-09-14 09:42:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Sir Substance
Sigras wrote:

what he was talking about, I think is a beam that divides its damage between all the ships it intersects.

He very clearly states its an AOE burst, which makes it a far simpler problem. Read first, then mouth.

edit: Here, I'll highlight the hard to comprehend part for you:

Mr MaltaProject wrote:

Basically, the idea is to make the doomsday an AoE weapon again, but with a catch. Give it the power of the super beam laser it is now, but divide its strength among every target it hits.


edit2: and before you start arguing, there are multiple AOE weapons in the game, so apparently CCP does have an efficient algorithm for finding the number of ships in a sphere, because it applies the damage to them. As I said before, this simply adds an extra step.

The beatings will continue until posting improves. -Magnus Cortex

Official Eve Online changelist: Togglable PvP. - Jordanna Bauer
Pattern Clarc
Citeregis
#19 - 2011-09-14 09:45:42 UTC
Just make it an AoE weapon with a system wide, global cool down of an hour. The OP's solution doesn't solve the problem of multiple DD's and encourages blobbing.

Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction
Mr MaltaProject
inFluX.
Good Sax
#20 - 2011-09-20 18:10:55 UTC
Sigras wrote:
Sir Substance wrote:
Sigras wrote:
I like the first idea, but its not possible to do because the server would die.

Unlike you, computers do not find division hard.

2million / %numberOfShipsOnField is an atomic operation, assuming %NOSOF has been fetched ahead of time, and there's no reason why it couldn't be. It wouldn't stress a pocket calculator.

All you have to do from there is apply that damage to the ships, and that's no more stressful then the original doomsday was, before they made it non AOE.


yes but unlike you, I know how to program.

what he was talking about, I think is a beam that divides its damage between all the ships it intersects. It would be finding the effected ships that would be the problem because you cant just use the number of ships on field, you have to draw a ray with a radius around it and then determine if ships fall within that ray . . . either using sig radius or ship model, you'd have to run a calculation of log N steps against every ship on grid to determine whether or not it was hit.


yeah except that wasnt what i was talking about at all....
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