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(Active) Comet Mining without adding new mechanics
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Fzhal
#1 - 2015-05-01 13:56:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Fzhal
Mercoxit is a great example here. Mercoxit is supposed to be special, right? Make Mercoxit special, like NPC special... This would allow it to mostly spawn in comets...

I started with the assumption that comet mining hasn't happened yet because of technical issues, like asteroids aren't coded to be mobile. NPCs are mobile, though, and can go in one direction at 500m-1k/sec (+-). Only one thing would be needed to create a very natural-feeling mini-game, a Mercoxit-damage halo and tail. The damaging halo/tail, in combination with the existing navigation and combat mechanics, would manifest as a naturally occurring mini-game.

Benefits of comet as NPC:
  • DScan and combat probes needed to find them (could add comet prospecting to Exploration profession)
  • Warping to signature would put the ship 20km+ away and in the Mercoxit-damage tail (not a safe place)
  • Large/long engine contrail (kilometers long) could be used as the comet's tail if needed
  • Using "Keep at distance" or "Orbit" would quickly land the ship in the damaging tail (manual piloting would be required)
  • NPC combat mechanics could be used to occasionally create massive Mercoxit-cloud eruptions at players (long lock, fire, untarget) with smartbomb effect or single-target attack with low-tracking/high-signature turret
  • Jet-can mining would leave a string of cans to pick up


The main issues I can think of:

  • Ore tables (back-end) would have to be connected to an NPC somehow
  • Area of effect damage in tail
  • Art of gaseous eruptions and tail (optional)
  • Barges/Exhumers would need Role bonuses to reduce PG needed for MWD (Unless you only want frigates mining comets as "Burner missions")
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#2 - 2015-05-01 17:17:25 UTC
Why not, mercoxit need to be out of nullsec anomalies I think too.

But tweaking barges/exhumers would be bad I think, adding them PG would make them able to fit way too easily shield extenders, so a reduction of PG consumption for MWD would be better, and even then, I think making this new job only for venture/prospect is a way better idea.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”
Soca Frenzy
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-05-01 18:01:08 UTC
Fzhal wrote:
Using "Keep at distance" or "Orbit" would quickly land the ship in the damaging tail (manual piloting would be required)

Somehow i like this idea of manual piloting mining ships. It makes bots and afk miners out of the business unless the damages can be tanked.

And i agree that it would be frigate only, some kind of a burner mission for miners.
Cade Windstalker
#4 - 2015-05-01 18:01:18 UTC
They actually recently commented on comet mining. It did almost happen as part of the Mining and Anomaly changes, it just wasn't a terribly compelling feature compared to the various other options available. As far as I know there's no particular issue with making a rock move.

Personally I don't think this is particularly more compelling than any of the other ideas I've seen floated.

For one you're talking about a fairly fast moving NPC object, which you have to scan down and warp to. This means that you need to catch up to it once you've located it, and hope that you don't land on top of the damage cloud because of the angle of your warp in. There isn't any way to tune this either because ships warp at various speeds and from various directions relative to an anomaly. Unless you want an acceleration gate to magically follow this thing around at which point you're stretching suspension of disbelief so far past the breaking point they'll hear the 'snap' out in Thera. So, at the very least, that's the damage tail out as probably unfeasible.

On top of this you're talking about a fairly fast moving object, but Mining Barges and Exumers aren't fast moving. They also completely lack the powergrid to fit a Propulsion Module sized for their ship because if you buff their Powergrid it becomes way too easy to fit them, which means they're completely incapable of catching this cloud. This means mining these things is going to be left to retrofitted ships of other classes or Mining and Exploration Frigates, which runs smack into the damage cloud as a major problem, because Frigates don't have a great HP pool and the damage cloud from Mercoxit can actually kill them pretty easily.

Overall this feels like a lot of the other "spice up mining" ideas, that are mostly designed by combat pilots for combat pilots, but still don't really have enough interesting stuff to make combat pilots actually do them, but more than enough 'active' mechanics to annoy the crap out of miners who want something relaxing to do while they either fiddle with their production spreadsheets or watch TV.
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#5 - 2015-05-01 18:07:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Xe'Cara'eos
I actually like this! just not limited to mercoxit....
perhaps the comet contains a single type of ore/ice/w/e, perhaps it has layers... going middle, middle.... 2nd worst, 2nd best, worst, best
that's a seperate issue though

I really like the idea, as long as ventures can keep up without straying into the damage zone if properly flown, whilst barges keep having to warp off and back, and the orca can just sit waaay of and tractor cans in

this could also give rise to a new expedition frigate - with a role bonus to probing, a smaller ore bay (enough to last it 5 mins at max skills, say), a bonus to AB speed boost or MWD cap usage, and perhaps a bonus to shields....

I think barges should be able to keep this thing in range for long enough to get a cycle or 2 off, before needing to rewarp, ideally long enough to jetcan whenever they want.

Also, if you get deep core mining to V, does that not completely remove the chance of a mercoxit cloud forming?
perhaps deep core mining could be repurposed to also affect comet mining.....

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
Fzhal
#6 - 2015-05-01 21:06:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Fzhal
I think that this type of mining would only apply to ice or mid-high end ores spawning in systems with higher sec statuses than normal. And I'd think that Mercoxit would be the only one doing damage to things not in the comet's tail. Comets without Mercoxit, you'd just need to stay out of the tail for the rest. I never said how much damage, we're not talking about massive damage here...

1Km/sec was an arbitrary choice. 500m-1k/sec has been added to the original post.

Cade Windstalker wrote:
1. They actually recently commented on comet mining. It did almost happen as part of the Mining and Anomaly changes, it just wasn't a terribly compelling feature compared to the various other options available. As far as I know there's no particular issue with making a rock move.Personally I don't think this is particularly more compelling than any of the other ideas I've seen floated.

2. For one you're talking about a fairly fast moving NPC object, which you have to scan down and warp to. This means that you need to catch up to it once you've located it, and 3. hope that you don't land on top of the damage cloud because of the angle of your warp in. 4. There isn't any way to tune this either because ships warp at various speeds and from various directions relative to an anomaly. Unless you want an acceleration gate to magically follow this thing around at which point you're stretching suspension of disbelief so far past the breaking point they'll hear the 'snap' out in Thera. So, at the very least, that's 5. the damage tail out as probably unfeasible.

On top of this you're talking about a fairly fast moving object, but Mining Barges and Exumers aren't fast moving. 6. They also completely lack the powergrid to fit a Propulsion Module sized for their ship because if you buff their Powergrid it becomes way too easy to fit them, which means they're completely incapable of catching this cloud. This means mining these things is going to be left to retrofitted ships of other classes or 7. Mining and Exploration Frigates, which runs smack into the damage cloud as a major problem, because Frigates don't have a great HP pool and the damage cloud from Mercoxit can actually kill them pretty easily.

8. Overall this feels like a lot of the other "spice up mining" ideas, that are mostly designed by combat pilots for combat pilots, but still don't really have enough interesting stuff to make combat pilots actually do them, but more than enough 'active' mechanics to 9. annoy the crap out of miners who want something relaxing to do while they either fiddle with their production spreadsheets or watch TV.

1. What are some other options you liked as much or more?
2. Yes, you'd have to catch up to it or know which direction it is going and warp to 50Km from a correct direction so you land near it's path.
3. I actually said that the comet's damage could have a high sig so that smaller ships take less... Or mining frigs could have Damage Reduction to comet damage effects.
4. Scan, warp to nearby planet, align, scan again, warp... Or just warp 100Km from it and let it get to 150Km away and warp to it using the overview... (Otherwise, I didn't know we were trying to remove the need for intelligence from the game)
5. See points 2-4
6. I changed the original post to say "Role bonuses to reduce PG needed for MWD (Unless you only want frigates mining comets)"
7. See points above
8. I never said that it should replace belt mining... It works really well for higher end ores in places they don't belong. It also gives active miners much more safety. I chose Mercoxit because it should be rare and dangerous.

For miners who are willing to be active and make more ISK per/hour, this would be a great option. And I know they are out there because I'm one of them.

Honestly, the fact that prices for high end ores are so close to mid-low ends makes it is obvious they are too easily accessible in Null. Eve revolves around making ISK, and when something becomes good ISK/hour, people will do it. The ISK/hour for mining is based upon roid Demand, Safety, and Availability. The game has matured to the point where things are skewed away from demand because Eve's players have organized so well that has significantly distorted what was meant for the high-end ores. For a miner right now, there isn't much to grow into compared to missions. Mine for 15-20 mil/hour in high sec, or 30-40 mil/hour in null. Hopefully the new Sov changes things so ninja mining is worth it again.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#7 - 2015-05-08 21:52:43 UTC
I like my thread better...

however, competing ideas that might get ccp to bloody add something to mining is always good imo, you get a like

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.