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#1 Abolish Rookiecorps.

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Author
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#1 - 2015-05-08 00:24:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Eve Solecist
Hi, I'm Sol.
This isn't the Project.



The New Player Experience is not about game mechanics.

It's a social engineering problem.




My idea is easy to grasp with quite a few points.


The thing: Rookiecorps add no positive value to the new player experience.


Instead, they ...

  • ... add an extra wall in between old players and new players. *
  • ... force people to one choice only, which equals zero choices in sum. *
  • ... allow griefers to badly influence new players. **
  • ... cause confusion to new players who dropped out of their first player corp.
  • ... there are too many people giving wrong or biased information.


* Those who want to stay in rookie corp, have no choice of ever joining a player-corp.

** Griefer are also those, who encourage playing in an isolated environment.
They lie to new players about different areas of the game, scaring and thus influencing their future behaviour.

They spread lies about others players, mostly "PvPers" ...
... and subsequentially teach Ignorance about "the game" itself.

"Skill to a battleship ASAP so you can run lvl4s";
"Lowsec is a deathtrap";
"Gankers shoot new players"; etc. etc.



According to your own statistic, dear CCP developer, people who experience any form of social interaction
stay longer in the game. People get formed by their environment. Social interaction, other human beings,
count as environment. The lack of an environment influences just as much.


Some NPC corps already have established groups. Working communities inside NPC corps
are the one from CAS, The Scope and indirectly Scope Works.

NPC corps do not stop people from joining player corps, like rookie corps.







So, I would ...

Abandon rookiecorps as such and give new players a choice in regards to their initial corporation.

Someone said he would rather want to stay in his rookiecorp ...
... which makes perfectly sense I guess ...
... so instead of abandoning the corps themselves ...
... I would add them to the list of NPC corps one can switch to.


Categorise the npc corps not depending on lore (sorry) but on character activity.

I would do that by weeding through all the gigabytes of data ...
... finding out what all the active chars in each npc corp do ingame.

Then have a script that scans through the relevant data and update these it daily.

I would rank it based on percentages. Mining, running missions, trading,
suicide ganking, duels, small gang pvp, etc. etc.

I would not sort the corps by any means, when being displayed in a menu.
Maybe even randomize the order every time it comes up, for everyone.
This is simply to counter the effect of people simply clicking the top corp, because it's there.


It would give the players choices where there were none and remove barriers that were nonsense.


Maybe that even gives you a whole new way of looking at it.



A strong hint that this is the right direction, are ...
... BNI, KARMAFLEET, PANDEMIC HORDE.


Doing what I propose will give you a base to fix your low retention rate.
Throwing people into working social environments is the way to go.

Instead of, like it is now, throwing new players into isolation which
too many of them will never really escape from.


It will most likely already increase your retention rate ...
... depending on choices you make.


The important parts for effective progress, are ...


  • ... abolishing rookie corps status.
  • ... encouraging existing communities.
  • ... encouraging the creation of new communities.
  • ... leading people into the communities, but with options.
  • ... ending the griefing that costs you new players.



Thank you for letting me help you "fix the game".
I will keep spawning new threads using this as base. :)
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2015-05-08 00:36:35 UTC
Remove noobcorps, but add more.

Above assumption is reinforced by existence of player corps.

Players have no choice on their activities.

New players can't join player corps because they are in a rookie corp.

Except rookie corps allow players to join corps.

You know what, I give up. I have no idea what I'm reading.
Reina Xyaer
Tha Lench Mob
#3 - 2015-05-08 00:44:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Reina Xyaer
I would argue it is about game mechanics...

Eve is a 12 year old (13-14 counting dev time pre-release) game, with a physics/gameplay engine of...

Spherical objects with textures assigned to them, floating in a soupy 3D space, each with different attributes.

_
_
_

If we want new players to stay, we're going to need to build a new game engine. Real 3D objects with more realistic physics, actual destruction/projectiles, etc.

I've said it countless times, and yes I know every time I say this... everyone hates it. Almost everyone disagrees. But the fact is that anyone who starts EVE immediately sees the gameplay, and probably quits because of how dated and boring the gameplay is. EVE is only fun because of it's stats. I'm still here because of that, and the hope it will one day become a better version of what Star Citizen wants to be. But most players are not uber-space-stats nerds, and won't be sucked in and held by the cool items and ships STATS, they want actual action.

EVE's engine is not action. It's spreadsheets.
Madd Adda
#4 - 2015-05-08 01:18:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Madd Adda
here we go again, Reina.

why would CCP build a new game when the old game still pays the bills? it's silly to make a new game just to be current with physics and graphic, superficial even.

Quote:
But the fact is that anyone who starts EVE immediately sees the gameplay, and probably quits because of how dated and boring the gameplay is


then why are we playing this game? if it's so dated and the gameplay so boring, why are there even people playing?

Quote:
the hope it will one day become a better version of what Star Citizen wants to be

I believe you are thinking about Valkyrie.

Quote:
But most players are not uber-space-stats nerds, and won't be sucked in and held by the cool items and ships STATS, they want actual action.

then they should hop in a frig and shoot something, damn the consequences.

Carebear extraordinaire

Claud Tiberius
#5 - 2015-05-08 01:35:35 UTC
How about, instead of removing rookie corps, which is meant for rookies: Players can only stay in rookie corps for x amount of days and/or until they reach y amount of skill points.

Once upon a time the Golem had a Raven hull and it looked good. Then it transformed into a plataduck. The end.

Madd Adda
#6 - 2015-05-08 01:37:53 UTC
Claud Tiberius wrote:
How about, instead of removing rookie corps, which is meant for rookies: Players can only stay in rookie corps for x amount of days and/or until they reach y amount of skill points.


i can get behind this but rookies still need help from somewhere and corp is automatically open to them.

Carebear extraordinaire

Reina Xyaer
Tha Lench Mob
#7 - 2015-05-08 02:12:45 UTC
Madd Adda wrote:

why would CCP build a new game when the old game still pays the bills?

To have the best, coolest, most amazing space MMO ever. Not just a game that pays the bills. However... another 12 years from now, this game will probably not pay the bills.

Madd Adda wrote:
then why are we playing this game? if it's so dated and the gameplay so boring, why are there even people playing?


Because they're space nerds like me, who enjoy the stats and progression. I'm not saying it's completely un-fun, just not fun to many people.

Madd Adda wrote:
I believe you are thinking about Valkyrie.


I believe I'm thinking about what I wish EVE would one day become. Yes Valkryie... combined with EVE, combined with Dust, combined with Incarna... all one game, a seamless 3D world with proper scale, the best physics we can code, etc.

Madd Adda wrote:

then they should hop in a frig and shoot something, damn the consequences.


You appear to miss my point. I'll try to explain it again... EVE gameplay (even the shooting) does not feel like action to many people. So they will not continue playing. So they will not be "hopping in" anything or doing anything, they will be unsubbing.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2015-05-08 02:42:24 UTC
Eve does not provide much action for you. That is the consequence of a sandbox gameplay. so, If someone comes to eve and wonder why nothing ever happens to them, the problem resides in the actions of themselves and the players around them.

Focusing on stats and numbers as a driving factor for these interactions isn't looking at the whole picture.
Madd Adda
#9 - 2015-05-08 02:46:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Madd Adda
Reina Xyaer wrote:

To have the best, coolest, most amazing space MMO ever. Not just a game that pays the bills. However... another 12 years from now, this game will probably not pay the bills.

to many it already is albeit still needing balancing, I can't stand the over realistic space sims or else i'd be playing Elite Dangerous. The soupy spheres in space is good for those that aren't looking for a superficial piece of eye candy with no depth.



Quote:
Because they're space nerds like me, who enjoy the stats and progression. I'm not saying it's completely un-fun, just not fun to many people.

i'm not a space nerd overly concerned with stats/progression. Active skill queue, and pre made fits/instructional eve vids from the internet, nothing else is really matters.



Quote:
I believe I'm thinking about what I wish EVE would one day become. Yes Valkryie... combined with EVE, combined with Dust, combined with Incarna... all one game, a seamless 3D world with proper scale, the best physics we can code, etc.


two words: Server Ticks. All in one game will never happen.



Quote:
You appear to miss my point. I'll try to explain it again... EVE gameplay (even the shooting) does not feel like action to many people. So they will not continue playing. So they will not be "hopping in" anything or doing anything, they will be unsubbing.


again, flawed logic. You don't get to decide what "doesn't feel like action" is. Having pvpers drop in on you as you scramble to get into warp is plenty of action for me at least. I won't deny if you were excepting Starfox the mmo, this isn't going to go well, but to assume a lot of people would have your exact opinion/rationale and make it justification for your own desires isn't right.

Carebear extraordinaire

Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#10 - 2015-05-08 05:39:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Eve Solecist wrote:
A strong hint that this is the right direction, are ...
... BNI, KARMAFLEET, PANDEMIC HORDE.

You mean those alliances that are perma wardeced and thus would allow newbies to be permanently killed legally? As far as I remember, getting legally killed wasn't a strong retainer either.

Besides, why should CCP take over the recruitment work from players? If players are really so interested in joining "a working social environment" on day one, nothing should hinder them from being very receptive to properly presented advertisement from your mentioned groups, be it in starter system local chats, in the forums, via news outlets or even official introductions via CCP.

That older players tell lies, is a crass exaggeration. Yes, I do tell people how EVE is and how other players see EVE: Depending on where you go in Low sec, you die; depending on where you go in Null sec, you die. Depending on what you do how in High sec or anywhere, you die. IF you do not know and are unwilling to learn how the game works, you die (war decs, for instance, or ganks attracted by your 5B skill-lack compensating Officer Spawn in High sec). If you are not patient and want everything on day 2, you should die in a phosphor fire and unsub immediately.

Reina Xyaer wrote:
To have the best, coolest, most amazing space MMO ever. Not just a game that pays the bills. However... another 12 years from now, this game will probably not pay the bills.

That is then only because we have ruined the last, current, next and coming gamer generations with this social crap, pay to win, ingame RL-money purchase money grabs, shallow, unimaginative, boring, shorterm oriented, oriented to a child's level of intelligence, forced social interaction in order for publishers, developers and advertisers to sell your data to other entities and many other things that ruin games. Not EVE's remainder in a better past is what is likely going to make it harder for it to remain, it's our current behavior towards ruining the games in general for more profits in exchange for less game experience and the conditioning of current and coming gamer generations to accept and ignore these facts.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Reina Xyaer
Tha Lench Mob
#11 - 2015-05-08 11:23:31 UTC
Madd Adda wrote:

to many it already is albeit still needing balancing, I can't stand the over realistic space sims or else i'd be playing Elite Dangerous. The soupy spheres in space is good for those that aren't looking for a superficial piece of eye candy with no depth.


Yes, it's clear you are fine with this dated Spheres in Space engine. I feel sorry for you. I think most people would rather have a more realistic game. (Over-realistic? Is this an oxy-moron? How can something be over-realistic?) Just because something has a better physics engine and better graphics doesn't mean it has to be superficial, eye-candy, or lack depth. Those are assumptions on your part.


Madd Adda wrote:
i'm not a space nerd overly concerned with stats/progression. Active skill queue, and pre made fits/instructional eve vids from the internet, nothing else is really matters.


Okay dude I think you're grasping at straws here just to argue. You may not be "overly" concerned with stats and progression, but you're at least concerned enough to enjoy your skill queue progressing, and seeing the stats of your "Sphere" go up with different fittings and ships.


Madd Adda wrote:
two words: Server Ticks. All in one game will never happen.


Okay I'm going to have to get mean here. Are you dense? We need a new game engine to allow all of these "worlds" to be together in one game. For you to say "it will never happen" is just you being an argumentative little girl, stomping your feet and crying NO NO NO its IMPOSSIBLE. It's not impossible to have that game. Star Citizen is currently trying. In the near future it will probably not only be possible, it will be the norm. Hell, in 10 or 20 years time we might have The Matrix, where our brains plug in and we play games in a truly simulated reality.

Are you a secret CCP employee, who's job is to go around spreading the idea that EVE can never change, so they don't have to make the investment of building a new game?

Madd Adda wrote:
again, flawed logic. You don't get to decide what "doesn't feel like action" is. Having pvpers drop in on you as you scramble to get into warp is plenty of action for me at least. I won't deny if you were excepting Starfox the mmo, this isn't going to go well, but to assume a lot of people would have your exact opinion/rationale and make it justification for your own desires isn't right.


NO dude it's not "flawed logic". It's a statement of fact. I did not say "ALL PEOPLE THINK EVE IS BORING"... or.. "ALL PEOPLE THINK EVE HAS NO ACTION".... I said "to many people". I'm not assuming people share my opinion based on nothing, I'm stating that it's true based on the fact that many people say so, and the fact that the game is not growing much, if at all. Again... I said "TO MANY PEOPLE". Not "to all people."

For you to argue that EVE's gameplay engine is not simple, dated (see: old), and that MOST gamers don't find it appealing... is factually wrong. Do NOT reply stating otherwise, I will literally blow my brains out and you will be responsible for an innocent person's suicide.
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#12 - 2015-05-08 11:43:32 UTC
Too much carebear hate in here.

Reported for cleanup.

I refuse to address nonsense.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#13 - 2015-05-08 12:20:07 UTC
If people hate spreadsheets why does every other mmo add them back in with add ons. Eves engine is fine. Eves game play is fine. Eves npe is where it isn't fine as eve still makes new players do the 'lvl 1' grind in a worl of lvl 100s. It may not be as skill restricted. But it is isk restricted. What you can afford to lose is based on how fast you earn. And newbies do not earn at all on most people's scale. Bring up the 'minimum wage' of eve without changing the high end incomes and you improve the 'action' players see.

On the subject of rookie corps I have to agree but not for the 'care bear hate' people (mainly you eve) are trying to peddle in this thread.
The problem with rookie corps are actually that you can't form a community in a rookie Corp of people with experience easily. Because anyone who has ever tried a player Corp doesn't return to the rookie Corp but to one of the background npcs corps.
Obviously alts exist. But it means the npc corps are where communities get formed much easier as you can go try things. You can use a jump clone service Corp and return. You can jump into a fw Corp and return if it's not for you.
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#14 - 2015-05-08 12:34:28 UTC
Thanks for actually qdding something which agrees with me ... that's a bonus.
I dismiss the rest above, because it's irrelevant.
Waiting for the cleanup.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#15 - 2015-05-08 12:43:16 UTC
Still don't think your solution is right. The three background corps are fine. And npc corps should be general not specialised so players can talk to people from all walks of life for advice. But getting rid of rookie corps so people aren't afraid to join a player Corp because they permanently lose friends is a good thing.
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#16 - 2015-05-08 12:45:36 UTC
Your last line shows that they aren't fine.
My points show that they aren't fine.

If you have an opinion, please state the reasons and information that makes you keep said opinion.

  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#17 - 2015-05-08 12:52:27 UTC
Rookie corps are.not the only npc corps that exist.
Get rid of the rookie ones. Leave the ones you end up in when you quit a player Corp. And use those for new characters also.
Keeps a turning.over pool of players between corps available for different view points and experiences. Keeps a safe place for them to return to if they need a quiet haven. And means they always come back to the same social group.
Eve Solecist
Shitt Outta Luck - GANKING4GOOD
#18 - 2015-05-08 12:54:29 UTC
You pretty much just summed up my own words, roughly.

The safety aspect I will adress in a new thread.
It has no meaning here.
  • All incoming connection attempts are being blocked. If you want to speak to me you will find me either in Hek local, you can create a contract or make a thread about it in General Discussions. I will call you back. -
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#19 - 2015-05-08 13:02:04 UTC
Ah. You were going on about trying.to categorize by activity and stuff. Which has no reliance on reflecting available knowledge of players passing through or past activities. So it sounded like you wanted a bunch of specialist corps and the like.
Ix Method
Doomheim
#20 - 2015-05-08 13:03:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Ix Method
It's been a while since I've been in Rookie corps but if your alternative is anything like the main NPC corps **** no. They are the most hideously toxic enviroments around, not only people who are unsure or where they stand with player corps but people who are actively shitting terrible advice out coloured by their own bad experiences.

Forcing players to be in a corp is probably half the problem, which is why all the talk around societies/communities/whatever is so interesting. Forcing players to always have membership of an NPC community (in absense of a player one) which would have no influence on mission tax/pvp safety or whatever would be a much less attractive enviroment to the butthurt NPC vet who tells everyone how awful lowsec is because they lost a hauler four years ago.

Giving people (optional) freedom from the corp structure while still forcing them to maintain a lifeline to some sort of community would solve a lot of the issues you outline.

Travelling at the speed of love.

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