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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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New Mining Mechanics: Multi Ore, Multi Methods

First post
Author
erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#201 - 2015-04-10 12:26:33 UTC
Bondor Zanphre wrote:
Keep in mind PVP and manufacturing is funded largely by an AFK activity known as mining. If mining became too interactive supply would decrease and demand would increase.


That is why I like the idea of 3 mining methods better than comet minig. You still can AFK mine with Strip Mining for low yield and at the same time miner next to you can mine same ore twice as effective with Vein Mining. No mini game - kind of real time strategy instead. More like a planetary interaction, where you shift your extractors once per cicle (minute or 3 minute) hunting most rich part of vein, for example.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#202 - 2015-04-11 01:48:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Maldiro Selkurk
What your proposal will do is give multiple account bot farmers perfect ore returns while destroying mining for people that play by the rules but want to play a low key aspect of the game.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#203 - 2015-04-11 11:04:32 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
What your proposal will do is give multiple account bot farmers perfect ore returns while destroying mining for people that play by the rules but want to play a low key aspect of the game.


Huh, did you read the whole thing ? Some of these methods are supposed to be very intensive regarding the number of actions per minute required, plus these actions are supposed to be randomized. Can't see how a bot (something totally forbidden in this game) or a multi-boxer could do them, plus the actual method will stay, so they will not even have to bother with it if they don't want to.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”

Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#204 - 2015-04-12 06:38:54 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
What your proposal will do is give multiple account bot farmers perfect ore returns while destroying mining for people that play by the rules but want to play a low key aspect of the game.


Huh, did you read the whole thing ? Some of these methods are supposed to be very intensive regarding the number of actions per minute required, plus these actions are supposed to be randomized. Can't see how a bot (something totally forbidden in this game) or a multi-boxer could do them, plus the actual method will stay, so they will not even have to bother with it if they don't want to.

In wow I came across bots that could carry on complicated and varying combat sequences and farm from what they killed. I give it 3 months tops before botters are laughing at how awesome these changes would benefit them at the expense of most of EVEs EULA abiding players.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#205 - 2015-04-12 15:53:53 UTC
hum, bots can do anything sooner or later, I don't think that's a good reason to not even try to add a long waited feature just because bots could abuse it. Bots can already do ratting, and that I think gain a lot more of isk than mining in isolated null-sec.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”

erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#206 - 2015-04-13 11:02:52 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
What your proposal will do is give multiple account bot farmers perfect ore returns while destroying mining for people that play by the rules but want to play a low key aspect of the game.


Sounds like demagogue. Care to explain why you think so? What will be used by bots in the OP, what is not already used by them now? I see it quite opposite. If you are not bot / ak, you can follow vein to increase your yield, for example. That would give real miners sugnificant benefit.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#207 - 2015-04-13 12:19:57 UTC
erg cz wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
What your proposal will do is give multiple account bot farmers perfect ore returns while destroying mining for people that play by the rules but want to play a low key aspect of the game.


Sounds like demagogue. Care to explain why you think so? What will be used by bots in the OP, what is not already used by them now? I see it quite opposite. If you are not bot / ak, you can follow vein to increase your yield, for example. That would give real miners sugnificant benefit.


The bots would follow the vein perfectly this outperforming the miners. We really need to wait for any null ore composition change in null before changing anything else in mining.
Null Infinity
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#208 - 2015-04-16 14:38:04 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:


The bots would follow the vein perfectly this outperforming the miners. We really need to wait for any null ore composition change in null before changing anything else in mining.


Change is known and it is awfull. They are going to make all ships just more expensive, whithout real fix of the AFK / multiboxer problem. As soon as AFK / multiboxers will be hit by mining mechanics itself, null sec will get its natural buff. Cause mining in high sec will be reduced by large numbers.

New mining menthods: interactive mining and comet mining

erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#209 - 2015-04-16 15:44:01 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:

The bots would follow the vein perfectly this outperforming the miners.


Well, I hope not. It really depends on implementation.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#210 - 2015-04-16 15:56:31 UTC
erg cz wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:

The bots would follow the vein perfectly this outperforming the miners.


Well, I hope not. It really depends on implementation.


Bots outperform humans in captcha tests hence google stopping using them, I'd be interested to see how such a mini game would avoid this.
Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#211 - 2015-04-16 17:12:04 UTC
So because of a forbidden mechanic (botting), we can't have nice things ?

Since when botting preventing CCP to add new features to the game ? We mostly want fun with active mining, isk come second, so even if bot can do it better, I don't mind if the gameplay of mining become more engaging than it is now.

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”

Kiddoomer
The Red Sequence
#212 - 2015-04-19 14:28:00 UTC
Bump

In the name of Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen : “Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.”

Null Infinity
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#213 - 2015-04-27 11:44:34 UTC
Kiddoomer wrote:
So because of a forbidden mechanic (botting), we can't have nice things ?

Since when botting preventing CCP to add new features to the game ? We mostly want fun with active mining, isk come second, so even if bot can do it better, I don't mind if the gameplay of mining become more engaging than it is now.



Umm, I think botting is not the reason, why this feature is not implemented.

New mining menthods: interactive mining and comet mining

erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#214 - 2015-04-30 10:56:05 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:


Bots outperform humans in captcha tests hence google stopping using them, I'd be interested to see how such a mini game would avoid this.


I am not sure about 'mini" game. How about normal game, no special windows or dialogs like for hacking. You zoom the asteroid in and start looking for place to target mining laser at. The better skill - the more accurate you can find and target. The whole banch of events can interrupt your mining path. Like explosions of overheated gas/ice in asteroid can change the vein so, that it would be hard for bot to adapt. Asteroid can start rotating in other direction and so on...
Null Infinity
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#215 - 2015-04-30 13:13:19 UTC
Bump!

New mining menthods: interactive mining and comet mining

erg cz
Federal Jegerouns
#216 - 2015-05-05 08:45:06 UTC
Navy Jackal
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#217 - 2015-05-07 11:38:52 UTC
How about small asteroids hitting bigger asteroids and fracture them. They can even damage mining ship, if the ship will not move away from the randomly flying debris...
Jasmine Cheryu
Bearers of Impurism
#218 - 2015-05-07 16:24:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jasmine Cheryu
+100 for all of OP's suggestions

Sidenote to all talking about how gamebreaking bots are -- yes I agree with you.. here is a following solution that I personally have trialled and tested, and it worked great...

Once upon a time I was a miner.. and in the system I lived and mined in with a large contigent of local people who eventually became very good and close friends of mine.. we were plagued by alot of botters who consitently mined many of the belts away.. so when it came for the guys from the US to login, many hours after DT, alot of the decent ore was gone, mostly due to the bot parties going around everywhere and munching everything up

Therefore I spoke to everyone and we halted our training on our main characters, and spent around 20-25 days training alt characters to fly catalysts to gank the botters

At first we declared war on their corporations and got some nice kills in (hulks, macks, even a few orcas) until the botters decided to go NPC corp.. and then we started suicide ganking them.
We told the botters' masters, that if they left the system and never returned, we would not pursue them, and we would only gank them in our system.
The botters tried to use highly tanked skiffs, even with damage controls.. but there were too many of us (like 20 or so) and we even ganked skiffs before concord came to kill our cats...

Eventually.. the botters disappeared into the void, and we havernt heard from them since. Even today I travel back to my old mining system, just for nostalgic purposes and I can greeted by the mass of blue contacts I have in local, and I smile Big smile


TL;DR -- make a gank alt and kill botters Smile
Protip -- do not chase the same character(s) around all of new eden, as this can be classed as harressment and you may be subject to an EULA violation (I believe)
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#219 - 2015-05-07 16:34:08 UTC
Jasmine Cheryu wrote:
+100 for all of OP's suggestions

Sidenote to all talking about how gamebreaking bots are -- yes I agree with you.. here is a following solution that I personally have trialled and tested, and it worked great...

Once upon a time I was a miner.. and in the system I lived and mined in with a large contigent of local people who eventually became very good and close friends of mine.. we were plagued by alot of botters who consitently mined many of the belts away.. so when it came for the guys from the US to login, many hours after DT, alot of the decent ore was gone, mostly due to the bot parties going around everywhere and munching everything up

Therefore I spoke to everyone and we halted our training on our main characters, and spent around 20-25 days training alt characters to fly catalysts to gank the botters

At first we declared war on their corporations and got some nice kills in (hulks, macks, even a few orcas) until the botters decided to go NPC corp.. and then we started suicide ganking them.
We told the botters' masters, that if they left the system and never returned, we would not pursue them, and we would only gank them in our system.
The botters tried to use highly tanked skiffs, even with damage controls.. but there were too many of us (like 20 or so) and we even ganked skiffs before concord came to kill our cats...

Eventually.. the botters disappeared into the void, and we havernt heard from them since. Even today I travel back to my old mining system, just for nostalgic purposes and I can greeted by the mass of blue contacts I have in local, and I smile Big smile


TL;DR -- make a gank alt and kill botters Smile
Protip -- do not chase the same character(s) around all of new eden, as this can be classed as harressment and you may be subject to an EULA violation (I believe)

I like the way you think.
Jasmine Cheryu
Bearers of Impurism
#220 - 2015-05-08 00:04:42 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:

I like the way you think.


Thank you sir Cool o/