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Intentional Jump Drive Limitations

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Luther Renvolint
Order of Interests
#1 - 2015-05-06 09:37:55 UTC
I know this topic has been raised before, but I would like to know why Jump Drive Technology has been so intentionally and severely limited. We know that the technology exists to be free of cynos, so why are we are unable to use it?

If Jump Drive capacitors are capable of detecting and locking onto large celestial objects, such as suns, planets and large moons, why are we capsuleers limited to using cynosural field generation?

The time has come to cast aside our differences such that we, humanity's wayward brothers and sisters, may once again return home. - Vuld Haupt, The Paths of Our Ancestors
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#2 - 2015-05-06 09:39:51 UTC
because ccp would rather you sub an alt or 10 than being able to fleely solo jump everywhere?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Solecist Project
#3 - 2015-05-06 10:01:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Couldn't you simply used google and read the devblogs?

All the answers are out there already.

A million times!


The TLDR is that when you can get anywhere in the cluster within minutes ...
... with a big enough force to roflstomp everything ...
... then that needs to be nerfed.

There.
Done.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#4 - 2015-05-06 10:34:01 UTC
Luther Renvolint wrote:
I know this topic has been raised before, but I would like to know why Jump Drive Technology has been so intentionally and severely limited. We know that the technology exists to be free of cynos, so why are we are unable to use it?

If Jump Drive capacitors are capable of detecting and locking onto large celestial objects, such as suns, planets and large moons, why are we capsuleers limited to using cynosural field generation?


I'm sure there's some in lore explaination for it but in reality it comes down to game mechanics. Being able to jump directly into other systems without any sort of help or warning would be way too powerful a mechanic considering the ships involved.

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Primary This Rifter
Mutual Fund of the Something
#5 - 2015-05-06 10:40:31 UTC
Lore is designed to fit the game mechanic, not the other way around.
If a game mechanic doesn't really make sense from a lore perspective, then lore pretty much just ignores it.
Otso Bakarti
Doomheim
#6 - 2015-05-06 11:20:21 UTC
Because all of the above already happened making the entire process a farce. Blink

There just isn't anything that can be said!
Luther Renvolint
Order of Interests
#7 - 2015-05-06 13:33:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Luther Renvolint
Solecist Project wrote:
Couldn't you simply used google and read the devblogs?

All the answers are out there already.

A million times!


The TLDR is that when you can get anywhere in the cluster within minutes ...
... with a big enough force to roflstomp everything ...
... then that needs to be nerfed.

There.
Done.


jump fatigue and fuel costs provide the perfect mechanic for controlling the power of jumping, an increase in both for not using a cyno should go some way towards balancing the ability ... or perhaps restricting the capability to certain ships ... or introducing new skills requirements.

also, just because it's already in a dev blog doesn't mean one should stop asking the question. perhaps there are new ways of mitigating the strength of such a development and the question is once again relevant.

The time has come to cast aside our differences such that we, humanity's wayward brothers and sisters, may once again return home. - Vuld Haupt, The Paths of Our Ancestors
Wendrika Hydreiga
#8 - 2015-05-06 13:49:23 UTC
But then how would you determine the spot you jump in to? Would you jump to a random spot in the system (like the middle of the sun)? Maybe jump to a fixed permanent beacon (that would be camped forever)? Or use bookmarks? Do you have the math skills to calculate with precision the coordinates and distance for a single jump?

I have feeling we have Cynos because the way the systems works doesn't allow for blind jumping like you are suggesting,
Luther Renvolint
Order of Interests
#9 - 2015-05-06 13:53:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Luther Renvolint
Wendrika Hydreiga wrote:
But then how would you determine the spot you jump in to? Would you jump to a random spot in the system (like the middle of the sun)? Maybe jump to a fixed permanent beacon (that would be camped forever)? Or use bookmarks? Do you have the math skills to calculate with precision the coordinates and distance for a single jump?

I have feeling we have Cynos because the way the systems works doesn't allow for blind jumping like you are suggesting,


Like the lore says, the capacitor should be able to lock on to a celestial body, such as a moon or large cluster of asteroids. The current mechanic for not exiting warp in the middle of a planet could be translated. In fact, far from blind jumping - which is NOT what I am suggesting - the lore states that the cyno generator was created to mimic the gravity well created by such an object, so the mechanic would, in fact, be exactly the same.

Given that most systems have several planets with several moons and several asteroid belts, I think there's enough jump targets to avoid jump camps.

The time has come to cast aside our differences such that we, humanity's wayward brothers and sisters, may once again return home. - Vuld Haupt, The Paths of Our Ancestors
Solecist Project
#10 - 2015-05-06 13:54:21 UTC
Wendrika Hydreiga wrote:
But then how would you determine the spot you jump in to? Would you jump to a random spot in the system (like the middle of the sun)? Maybe jump to a fixed permanent beacon (that would be camped forever)? Or use bookmarks? Do you have the math skills to calculate with precision the coordinates and distance for a single jump?

I have feeling we have Cynos because the way the systems works doesn't allow for blind jumping like you are suggesting,

...........

Middle of the sun?
That would be a long jump.


Star*

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Solecist Project
#11 - 2015-05-06 14:02:33 UTC
Luther Renvolint wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Couldn't you simply used google and read the devblogs?

All the answers are out there already.

A million times!


The TLDR is that when you can get anywhere in the cluster within minutes ...
... with a big enough force to roflstomp everything ...
... then that needs to be nerfed.

There.
Done.


jump fatigue and fuel costs provide the perfect mechanic for controlling the power of jumping, an increase in both for not using a cyno should go some way towards balancing the ability ... or perhaps restricting the capability to certain ships ... or introducing new skills requirements.

also, just because it's already in a dev blog doesn't mean one should stop asking the question. perhaps there are new ways of mitigating the strength of such a development and the question is once again relevant.

It's not about asking questions per se.

It's about redundancy and your obvious desinterest in using google to find answers
to questions that have already been asked.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Hipqo
Tyde8
#12 - 2015-05-06 14:07:21 UTC
Lets just call it game balance and lets say the game would be to damn easy, if you could jump from any system to any system, as much as you like, because "the lore says we can".

I love the lore of this game, and ive read it heavily. Truly amazing!!
But that doesnt change the fact that this is a game, a challenging game actually, and doing this would do nothing but make it butt easy for the big entities to control larger areas, thus newer smaller entities would never have a chance to emerge.

To many downside to this suggestion, in my world.

A life is best lived, to not step into your grave in a well preserved body. Instead, to slide in side ways, all battered and bruised, screamming, "Holy SH**! What a ride!"
Luther Renvolint
Order of Interests
#13 - 2015-05-06 14:11:29 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:

It's not about asking questions per se.

It's about redundancy and your obvious desinterest in using google to find answers
to questions that have already been asked.


very constructive ... thanks Ugh

The time has come to cast aside our differences such that we, humanity's wayward brothers and sisters, may once again return home. - Vuld Haupt, The Paths of Our Ancestors
Solecist Project
#14 - 2015-05-06 14:27:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Solecist Project
Luther Renvolint wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:

It's not about asking questions per se.

It's about redundancy and your obvious desinterest in using google to find answers
to questions that have already been asked.


very constructive ... thanks Ugh

Just like your thread.
Ignoring all the available information and rehashing the same thoughts,
questions and answers isn't constructive.

If you care about the peoples thoughts ...
... why not look them up?

Why?

...

Anyhow, I reported the thread as redundant.
ISDs decide, as always.

Good luck anyhow.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#15 - 2015-05-06 14:29:25 UTC
Luther Renvolint wrote:
Wendrika Hydreiga wrote:
But then how would you determine the spot you jump in to? Would you jump to a random spot in the system (like the middle of the sun)? Maybe jump to a fixed permanent beacon (that would be camped forever)? Or use bookmarks? Do you have the math skills to calculate with precision the coordinates and distance for a single jump?

I have feeling we have Cynos because the way the systems works doesn't allow for blind jumping like you are suggesting,


Like the lore says, the capacitor should be able to lock on to a celestial body, such as a moon or large cluster of asteroids. The current mechanic for not exiting warp in the middle of a planet could be translated. In fact, far from blind jumping - which is NOT what I am suggesting - the lore states that the cyno generator was created to mimic the gravity well created by such an object, so the mechanic would, in fact, be exactly the same.

Given that most systems have several planets with several moons and several asteroid belts, I think there's enough jump targets to avoid jump camps.


Too bad the ships design we can use don't have that particular type of jump dive installed. Ours are kinda limited and require cynos to use and no empire are willing to design new version of our ships just for that.

Sorry.
Luther Renvolint
Order of Interests
#16 - 2015-05-06 14:37:09 UTC
Solecist Project wrote:

Just like your thread.
Ignoring all the available information and rehashing the same thoughts,
questions and answers isn't constructive.

If you care about the peoples thoughts ...
... why not look them up?

Why?


I am very aware of previous posts. I have read previous opinion. I started this thread to ask afresh. Your input is not constructive, it's merely callous and obtuse.

Discussion breeds progress. If you hadn't noticed, there's an entire section of the forum dedicated to discussing proposed changes to the game set up by the people that make the changes, because they're interested in asking questions and discussing them.

I have attempted to provide realistic mitigations to the strengths of changing the jump capabilities, none of which have been addressed.

If you think my question is not constructive, then leave it alone and take your vitriol with you.

The time has come to cast aside our differences such that we, humanity's wayward brothers and sisters, may once again return home. - Vuld Haupt, The Paths of Our Ancestors
Jenshae Chiroptera
#17 - 2015-05-06 14:45:53 UTC
Killing cynos defends systems.
Cynos also make great bait with a cloaked bubbler.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Cataca
Aspiring Nomads
#18 - 2015-05-06 14:49:27 UTC
Not really big on zero sec balance, so take it with a grain of salt.

If you'd be able to just jump wherever, you completely remove the control of the system inhabitants to defend against said jump. Whoever had more jumpships to blap ****, would just win. Current system gives defenders still a way to deal with the cyno (in theory), so there is still a "home advantage". Course, whoever has more caps wins anyways.
Luther Renvolint
Order of Interests
#19 - 2015-05-06 15:00:14 UTC
Cataca wrote:
Not really big on zero sec balance, so take it with a grain of salt.

If you'd be able to just jump wherever, you completely remove the control of the system inhabitants to defend against said jump. Whoever had more jumpships to blap ****, would just win. Current system gives defenders still a way to deal with the cyno (in theory), so there is still a "home advantage". Course, whoever has more caps wins anyways.


mmmm ... that makes sense

The time has come to cast aside our differences such that we, humanity's wayward brothers and sisters, may once again return home. - Vuld Haupt, The Paths of Our Ancestors
Athryn Bellee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#20 - 2015-05-06 15:31:41 UTC
Excuse me if I'm mistaken, but isn't that page talking about warp drives and not jump drives like capital ships and black ops battleships have? There also already exists a mechanic for jumping to a system without a cynosural field present. If you jump and the cyno ship is destroyed you land near the star. If CCP wanted to implement cyno free jumping they would just have to say you can jump to any star within your ship's jump range.
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