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Shield Stratios
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FNPD
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-05-03 00:30:50 UTC  |  Edited by: FNPD
Edit: See fits below.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#2 - 2015-05-03 01:47:07 UTC
An Ishtar is just far superior and cheaper as well. Also using combat drones for these kind of sites can get annoying because the drones have to travel from target to target, and if the aggro swaps to one of your drones and it's far away, it might die before you can recall it. You also lose alot of dps from drone travel time and recalling drones.

That's why Ishtar with sentries is just so much better for these kind of sites. Your tank is on the weak side as well for 5-6/10s. As for traveling around safely in lowsec, the Ishtar with MWD + Cloak is a very safe way to move around lowsec if you know how to do the mwd cloaky trick, the only thing you're really losing out on is the scanning bonus which isn't really needed for DED sites as they aren't as hard to scan as relic/data sites.

Your fit is quite pricey and people love hunting DED runners in lowsec since it's very easy to tell when someone is doing DEDs by checking the wrecks that are on scan. Seasoned hunters will even know how far along you are by the types of wrecks on scan. Some pirates will set up traps with cloaked ships in a site waiting for someone to do it as well. So you're bound to lose the Stratios eventually. A T2 fit Ishtar is probably going to be more efficient and way cheaper as well.
FNPD
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-05-03 02:04:41 UTC  |  Edited by: FNPD
Thanks for the reply. Would you mind posting an Ishtar fit that can use a mobile depot and be able to tackle any low sec site?

Also, I only do sites with an empty local...which isn't hard to do if you avoid FW space. There are vast stretches of low sec near my home that are empty most of the time.

I guess I am also nervous about my skill at the cloak trick. I am used to covops.

Edit:

I played around some in Pyfa. Clearly for Guristas/Serpentis the hp/s is insane (really small buffer though), but I also lose the AB sig tanking the Strat had. Any EM based the tank is about half that. I guess I would just pulse the mwd out to range (with Gardes the range is not so good though) and start killing things. The CPU is severly limited, so I put small lasers to handle any frigs that get in close. The ICD2 would be inside the mobile depot. It has to be offline anyway, or no other high slots can be utilized.

[Ishtar, Combat Exploration [PvE]]

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II

Pithum C-Type Medium Shield Booster
Dread Guristas Kinetic Deflection Field
Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation Field
Shield Boost Amplifier II
10MN Microwarpdrive II

Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S
Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S
Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S
Small Focused Pulse Laser II, Imperial Navy Multifrequency S

Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II

Garde II x5
FNPD
Doomheim
#4 - 2015-05-03 06:00:04 UTC  |  Edited by: FNPD
Made a cheaper passive Stratios as well. Keep extra relays in cargo just in case. Scorch hits out to 33km at 133 DPS. Drones do 553 with 2 DDAs. 375 with none (if full tank needed).

[Stratios, Combat Exploration [PvE] copy]

Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

10MN Afterburner II
Large Shield Extender II
Large Shield Extender II
Dread Guristas Thermic Dissipation Field
Dread Guristas Kinetic Deflection Field

Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Heavy Pulse Laser II, Scorch M
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Core Defense Field Purger II
Medium Core Defense Field Purger II
Medium Core Defense Field Purger II

Acolyte II x10
Hobgoblin II x10
Warrior II x10
Hammerhead II x4
Infiltrator II x4
Valkyrie II x4
Gecko x1

Core Probe Launcher II x1
Dread Guristas EM Ward Field x1
Dread Guristas Explosive Deflection Field x1
Imperial Navy Multifrequency M x8
Imperial Navy Standard M x8
Nanite Repair Paste x250
Sisters Core Scanner Probe x16
Mobile Depot x1
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#5 - 2015-05-03 06:55:56 UTC
If you want one rig setup that can handle all the different faction sites I'd go with an armor tank since you'd be hard pressed to tank Sansha/BR in a shield Ishtar setup. It also frees up more midslots for omnis which will allow you to snipe from a longer range. You won't need much tank for Serpentis/Guristas, I remember being able to do them with just a single T2 rep + 1 resist mod. You might need dual rep or more resists for Sansha/BR/Angels though. The nice thing about Angels it that their ships are close range but bouncers hit to very far so even though the explosive resist is low on an armor tank Ishtar, you can just pull out to range and snipe wihle taking very little damage. I don't have a specific fit in mind as I didn't really do many Sansha/BR/Angel sites in an Ishtar solo, I mostly did Guristas/Serpentis so you'd have to test out different fits to come up with an optimal setup.

Regardless I still feel that teh Ishtar is the better choice but you can definitely make the Stratios work if you really want to use that.
Brutus Utama
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2015-05-05 11:46:10 UTC
NO NO NO....

you do not shield tank a Stratios it gets armour tanking bonus's its like armour tanking a drake.... you dont do it....
Mr Floydy
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#7 - 2015-05-05 12:39:59 UTC
Brutus Utama wrote:
NO NO NO....

you do not shield tank a Stratios it gets armour tanking bonus's its like armour tanking a drake.... you dont do it....


Except for the fact that a PvE Stratios can tank a tonne more with a PST than active armour tank. Plus it can actually use Drone damage mods.
There are clear reasons for using a PST fit over a Armour fit.
FNPD
Doomheim
#8 - 2015-05-05 15:49:51 UTC  |  Edited by: FNPD
Already paid for it with one night. If I have another successful run, thinking of upgrading the AB to a c-type and possibly the hardeners to x-types.

Edit: I had also found an unrated blood site, but decided to skip it as 40km neuts sound annoying no matter who you are.

Edit 2: Is the DED 5 rogue drone worth doing? I think its something like 7 rooms, and the high sec rogue drone stuff is nearly a waste of time.
Dato Koppla
Spaghetti Militia
#9 - 2015-05-06 03:38:47 UTC
FNPD wrote:
Already paid for it with one night. If I have another successful run, thinking of upgrading the AB to a c-type and possibly the hardeners to x-types.

Edit: I had also found an unrated blood site, but decided to skip it as 40km neuts sound annoying no matter who you are.

Edit 2: Is the DED 5 rogue drone worth doing? I think its something like 7 rooms, and the high sec rogue drone stuff is nearly a waste of time.


Drone DED 5 should win the award for the all time worst site in history. Also, just for fun, CCP leaves it completely broken and it spawns in every single kind of space for extra trolls and lulz. If you're scanning an active pocket of lowsec you'll come across a TON of drone DEDs because nobody wants to do them so they just sit there, not done for a couple days till they despawn.
FNPD
Doomheim
#10 - 2015-05-07 14:42:03 UTC
Ok, now that I have done the Serp 5 and kind of understand that these things are completely different than doing L4s, I do have some questions.

With the Stratios, to do the last room, I have to change all lows to shield relays, overheat the hardeners, and my tank was something close to 1000 hp/s. I sent in hobgoblins to snipe the web towers and then the main rat was easy to kill with my Gecko + hammers. Everyone keeps talking about the Ishtar. The Ishtar's active tank is smaller than the passive tank I used, and even using a MWD will be really slow with the web towers.

How does an Ishtar survive in that situation? It sounds like the Guristas 5 is worse than the Serp 5, so I guess my question is similar for it.

In addition, the Ishtar just received a huge nerf to its damage. Even with 4 DDAs (only possible on shield tank), Gardes only barely break 600 DPS. This seems like it would make the Ishtar terrible in situations it has to armor tank. I read that the Sansha 5/6 rat requires a huge amount of EM DPS. I just do not see how the Ishtar can do that.

Also, do most people refit their Ishtars to a AB at site, or do you just keep the MWD on to burn to range? I imagine getting to range at 600 m/s with an AB would be terrible. I guess with Gardes you are already at max range though generally.
Tung Yoggi
University of Caille
#11 - 2015-05-07 15:19:33 UTC
FNPD wrote:
How does an Ishtar survive in that situation? It sounds like the Guristas 5 is worse than the Serp 5, so I guess my question is similar for it.


The ishtar has very high kinetic, and high thermal resistance. It can also passive regen tank easily, fitted like your stratios. Therefore, it adapts perfectly to guristas and serpentis complexes.
You can also note that Its signature is a bit lower, and its speed is slightly higher than the Stratios', which adds a bit to its tank. It also comes with damage application bonuses.

If you stick to Guristas and Serpentis complexes, the Ishtar will definitely perform better, the only advantage of the stratios being a covert ops cloak.
Nam Dnilb
Universal Frog
#12 - 2015-05-08 16:06:58 UTC
FNPD wrote:
How does an Ishtar survive in that situation? It sounds like the Guristas 5 is worse than the Serp 5, so I guess my question is similar for it.


I only fly armor Ishtar, but here's how I do the last room in the 5/10. I refit to a bit more armor buffer, DDA gets replaced with a plate and more drone tracking in the mids. Then warp in, sit motionless and snipe the overseer with gardes. Heating the tank might be necessary. Bookmark wreck and the web towers kindly web me into a quick warp-out.

Don't get too tied up in DPS numbers here, the Ishtar's tracking and range bonus is worth gold here. Rarely the overseer doesn't aggro and keeps orbiting, leading to the sentries missing. Doesn't happen too often, so I don't mind it too much. If at first you don't succeed...

Don't know how how a shield Ishtar will fare in this situation, but looking at EFT it should work at least for the Guristas and Serpentis variants.
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#13 - 2015-05-08 22:40:22 UTC
I've successfully run both Serp and Blood 5/10 in an armor Stratios though as I recall the first time in a Serp 5 was touch and go. Having a damage control certainly helps and I suppose a plate would have been beneficial as well. My tank only registered at 337 rat specific (419 overheated which is obviously the first thing you do when you land); the key is just to kill the Exsanguinator/Sarpati Family Enforcer as quickly as possible, bookmark the wreck, and gtfo before the damage catches up with your tank.

Given the higher damage potential in an Ishtar I can't imagine any trouble there.

By the by, I really don't recommend a Stratios for 5/10s. It can be done but it takes longer than I usually like and it really is dicey in the last room. Ishtar is a better idea and a suitably fit T3 shouldn't have issues whatsoever.
FNPD
Doomheim
#14 - 2015-05-09 01:01:51 UTC  |  Edited by: FNPD
Zhilia Mann wrote:
I've successfully run both Serp and Blood 5/10 in an armor Stratios though as I recall the first time in a Serp 5 was touch and go. Having a damage control certainly helps and I suppose a plate would have been beneficial as well. My tank only registered at 337 rat specific (419 overheated which is obviously the first thing you do when you land); the key is just to kill the Exsanguinator/Sarpati Family Enforcer as quickly as possible, bookmark the wreck, and gtfo before the damage catches up with your tank.

Given the higher damage potential in an Ishtar I can't imagine any trouble there.

By the by, I really don't recommend a Stratios for 5/10s. It can be done but it takes longer than I usually like and it really is dicey in the last room. Ishtar is a better idea and a suitably fit T3 shouldn't have issues whatsoever.


To give a quick update. I use 3 DDAs in my lows for rooms 1 and 2 of Serp 5. While mopping up the last couple of battleships in room 2 I drop a mobile depot and switch my lows to ALL shield relays. In the last room I sent my Gecko+Hammers straight at the final boss while ignoring the webs. With overheated Dread Guristas hardeners, I got down to about 50% shield by the time I warped out. I got a Vigilant BPC and about 150M in other items today. It took me right over 30 minutes to run (it was a low sec escalation site, so just had to keep an eye out for combat probes).

I can't help it, I love the Stratios! It may not be completely optimal, but it has worked. I got forced out of my Guristas 5 before room 2, so I am not sure how it would do in there. I would hope if I can tank room 3 of Serp 5 with no transversal due to webs I could do room 2 of the Guristas site. Is the best strategy for this site to kill the sentry guns asap? I am going to assume they have low hp and just send in hobgoblins to get them fast.

Edit:

The entire build, with cargo, is showing up as roughly 460M isk in Pyfa. Drone DPS is 620 with 3 DDAs. I have stuck to 3 guns instead of 4, due to cap issues, and the DPS there is 95 at 33km or 120 at 11km.

50/50 Kinetic/Thermal is a 322 hp/s tank. With 5 shield relays it is 734 hp/s non-heated. 972 hp/s heated.