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CCP - End Passive Income

First post
Author
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2015-05-01 03:34:10 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Feel free to set up your own risk free moon mining operation.


While the OP may be going a bit far, the jist of the issue is that there are a lot of activities in EVE that don't require you to log in for long stretches of time, relatively to what you're getting out of it. PI and moon mining are the most prominent examples.

It's not about defending the latter either, but about how little interactivity such a system actually needs to work, and still be profitable. I would argue that the amount of passive activities in EVE is a direct cause of the stagnation of the amount of people online (of of, you know what i mean), and that has to be looked at.

moon mining again, is only possible by havign a large popluation of ACTIVE combat pilots to defend it, and a full logistics wing to support the network, moon mining is only valuable as it is in mass (and it will be even harder to passively do as CCP rolls out the structure changes)

as for PI, yes, managing 5 planets between 2 lowsec systems to produce the materials for one final product being made on the sixth, in an untankable, non-combat industrial makes WAY too much money for the risk associated with it.

PI is profitable not because of time at the keyboard involved, its the logistics in maintaining everythign needed for it to work, whether thats POCO occupancy, or just learning to avoid the local pirates who would more than love to pop a bestower hauling 100mil of goods between planets for production
Reiisha
#42 - 2015-05-01 12:09:34 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
moon mining again, is only possible by havign a large popluation of ACTIVE combat pilots to defend it, and a full logistics wing to support the network, moon mining is only valuable as it is in mass (and it will be even harder to passively do as CCP rolls out the structure changes)

as for PI, yes, managing 5 planets between 2 lowsec systems to produce the materials for one final product being made on the sixth, in an untankable, non-combat industrial makes WAY too much money for the risk associated with it.

PI is profitable not because of time at the keyboard involved, its the logistics in maintaining everythign needed for it to work, whether thats POCO occupancy, or just learning to avoid the local pirates who would more than love to pop a bestower hauling 100mil of goods between planets for production


And how much do you actually need to be online to keep it working? You make it seem like you have to defend a POS 24/7 and have a 100-man fleet online for it at all times, and you have to take care of the logistics every hour and work in shifts to keep it working.

Obviously that just isn't true. Defending a POS is pretty much unecessary unless it's close to the frontlines. Even if it does get attacked, you basically don't have to do anything for an entire day and it will still be safe. Logistics are a once-a-week thing for most POS. There is some setup required, yes, but after that's done you can basically forget about it outside of the weekly logistics run (especially in larger alliances with the current blue donut).

What i'm trying to say is that the system doesn't require enough active interaction (or rather, it doesn't reward it). Everything is laid out so you don't have to be online to make it work, you just have to poke it a little bit every once in a while to keep it going. A lot of systems in EVE work like that (sov, PI, industry, market, research, etc), and as a result people just aren't actually online playing the game but offline playing something else while waiting for processes to finish. I hope i don't have to explain how that is a bad thing, especially in the long term.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...

Josef Djugashvilis
#43 - 2015-05-01 12:34:33 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Oh wait,

I mined my minerals so they free..

I sold my toon for 5bill over 6months so i am 5bill richer.....

Lmao stupid dummy idiot


It costs 5 PLEX for six months and that includes the transfer.

Learn to make a proper character and you get up to 12 PLEX at the sale. That's 7 PLEX or 5.6b profit for an hours work.

Show me anything else in the game where you make 5b an hour.

Mr Epeen Cool


Hi-sec level 4 missions?

See the usual suspects for a scientific breakdown on how to do this.Smile

This is not a signature.

Xiebaah Ko'inkila
Heda Shipyards
Odin's Call
#44 - 2015-05-01 13:42:57 UTC
How are you supposed to stop people trading ?

If you remove the player driven economy you kind of kill the game for 90% of the player base.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2015-05-01 13:55:32 UTC
Mithandra wrote:
Bonezay wrote:
Not sure if OP is actively trolling or passively trolling...Big smile



if he replies more than once its active trolling

If he doesn't reply at all, it's passive

What if he replied only ONCE? Shocked

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

chelly Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#46 - 2015-05-01 13:56:50 UTC
P3ps1 Max wrote:
Enough is enough! There is currently little to no risk involved for the vast majority of isk making in EVE! From Moon mining to planetary interaction and even research there is hardly ANY risk involved. Please remove all passive isk from the game!

Many players use these tools to plex accounts.

There is little incentive to do anything else.

Passive isk is killing the game.

Hell, there's no real reason to log in anymore.

Please put an end to passive income!


The irony®






I believe former residents of Fountain and Delve would disagree with your idea of "hardly ANY risk involved"

But by all means, please set up a moon mining POS in low sec / null sec ( just as soon as you kill the one that is there ofcourse )

But lets say you have an alliance that is actually in a large coalition and you are in top 1% in said alliance and allowed to put up R64 POS. You will then pay aprox 80% tax to alliance for use of said POS.

Bottom line, you have no idea how moon mining works in practice.

And if you thing its moon miners that are raising price of PLEX you have got it all wrong my space poor friend.
Mario Putzo
#47 - 2015-05-01 15:03:02 UTC
chelly Dian wrote:

And if you thing its moon miners that are raising price of PLEX you have got it all wrong my space poor friend.


They most certainly contribute to it. Moon mining on the alliance level facilitates SRP, SRP keeps more money in a pilots pocket they would otherwise need to replace ships, since Moon Mining is covering that through SRP, they have extra isk to go to PLEX.

In fact SRP programs likely have the largest impact on PLEX prices right now, and they are primarily funded through Moon Mining.


On the individual level passive income certainly allows one to buy PLEX easier. Couple PI alts can pull in about 75% of a PLEX, (maybe a bit less now since PLEX have gone up since I did my numbering with the free 2 Char Training CCP gave us). Individual moon mining (which is rare) can generate anywhere from 50%-100% of a PLEX (depending on material mined, and cost of pos upkeep). In either event both provide a portion of the cost of a PLEX for doing relatively nothing and maybe more importantly it allows a player to Mission AND Generate ISK from inactive sources at the same time. It makes PLEXing much easier.

Since we all know PLEX pricing is driven by supply and demand, More people with the ability to purchase PLEX with less time invested, means higher demand on the market. Supply has been more or less in steady decline since about 2012, while demand has actually accelerated (likely due to 2 char training, and more recently ship skins using PLEX > AUR).

So while moon mining and PI are not solely responsible for PLEX increasing 1:1, they certainly do impact the rise by a sizeable %.
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#48 - 2015-05-01 15:08:44 UTC
Does extortion count as passive income?
Mario Putzo
#49 - 2015-05-01 15:23:02 UTC
Ma'Baker McCandless wrote:
Does extortion count as passive income?


I would say no.
Ma'Baker McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#50 - 2015-05-01 15:25:20 UTC
Cool.

Cos I do less work than an Incursion Runner on autopilot and I still rake it in lol
Gerhard Stringfellow
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2015-05-03 12:39:18 UTC
Moon goo is hardly risk free, and I'd hate to try and rely on PI to PLEX an account (or god forbid several). Those are the only two things I can really think of as passive income that are legal within game mechanics (not including bot mining or nasty things of that nature).

Another pubbie elite PvE pay to win mining carebear

2Sonas1Cup
#52 - 2015-05-03 12:48:23 UTC  |  Edited by: 2Sonas1Cup
Guide:

3 accounts
6 ALTs (2 per account) in a wormhole 0% tax own pocos
6 planets per character
~ 5 million isk per planet a day

5*6*6*30= 5.4 billion isk a month

15 minutes a day required
30 minutes on the weekend for logistics


Notes:
- Try not installing more than 4 command centres on the same planet.
- Sweet spot is 8k isk or more per unit of p2.
- Aim for 18k units of each raw material extracted per hour.
malcovas Henderson
THoF
#53 - 2015-05-03 13:17:32 UTC
All I am reading from the OP is "I cannot / wont do the passive billions isk shizzle, so it should be stopped". Jealous self entitlemently kinda of thing.



BrundleMeth
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#54 - 2015-05-03 15:09:13 UTC
Guttripper wrote:
Better not let my employer know I was sitting on my ass on vacation getting that passive income doing squat...

How it that different from when you are at work? LOLOLOL
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2015-05-03 17:36:18 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Blue dohnut won't end until moon-goo income is removed.

I know very well the logistics and defensive headaches of maintaining moon poses. It's hard work. But that's not the point. It's not about what's "fair." If the goal of fuzziesov is to end blue dohnut and give small guys a chance at sov, this has to be done.

If fozzie wants to do it, he'll do it. We won't be able influence him by making disingenuous posts in defense of our moon goo. All it does is make us look like idiots to everyone who looks at the forums in the process. There's no point. Whatever will be, will be.
bonkerss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2015-05-03 17:56:38 UTC
P3ps1 Max wrote:
Enough is enough! There is currently little to no risk involved for the vast majority of isk making in EVE! From Moon mining to planetary interaction and even research there is hardly ANY risk involved. Please remove all passive isk from the game!

Many players use these tools to plex accounts.

There is little incentive to do anything else.

Passive isk is killing the game.

Hell, there's no real reason to log in anymore.

Please put an end to passive income!


The irony®






i would go forth opposite. MORE PASSIVE INCOME. Eve pve is so extremely boring i wish i would get all my isk passive:)
Spurty
#57 - 2015-05-03 19:08:32 UTC
Recently made billions building t3 destroyers in wormholes

Put moons to mine in here please

See who moans when that happens. Make it fair

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP

d0cTeR9
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#58 - 2015-05-03 19:18:46 UTC
2Sonas1Cup wrote:
Guide:

3 accounts
6 ALTs (2 per account) in a wormhole 0% tax own pocos
6 planets per character
~ 5 million isk per planet a day

5*6*6*30= 5.4 billion isk a month

15 minutes a day required
30 minutes on the weekend for logistics


Notes:
- Try not installing more than 4 command centres on the same planet.
- Sweet spot is 8k isk or more per unit of p2.
- Aim for 18k units of each raw material extracted per hour.


Don't those get blown up when ever they go to high-sec to sell stuff?

Been around since the beginning.

u3pog
Ministerstvo na otbranata
#59 - 2015-05-03 19:38:34 UTC
Reiisha wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Feel free to set up your own risk free moon mining operation.


While the OP may be going a bit far, the jist of the issue is that there are a lot of activities in EVE that don't require you to log in for long stretches of time, relatively to what you're getting out of it. PI and moon mining are the most prominent examples.

It's not about defending the latter either, but about how little interactivity such a system actually needs to work, and still be profitable. I would argue that the amount of passive activities in EVE is a direct cause of the stagnation of the amount of people online (of of, you know what i mean), and that has to be looked at.


You are so hot! Marry me! We will have many baby capsuleers and one day they'll grow up to be leaders! If not, well....we'll use them for passive income!
Mario Putzo
#60 - 2015-05-03 20:45:44 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Oh wait,

I mined my minerals so they free..

I sold my toon for 5bill over 6months so i am 5bill richer.....

Lmao stupid dummy idiot


It costs 5 PLEX for six months and that includes the transfer.

Learn to make a proper character and you get up to 12 PLEX at the sale. That's 7 PLEX or 5.6b profit for an hours work.

Show me anything else in the game where you make 5b an hour.

Mr Epeen Cool


Its not 5b/hr.

6*30*24 = 4382 hours.
5,600,000,000/4382 = 1,277,955 isk/hr.