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Dev blog: X Marks The Spot - The New Star Map Is Out Of Beta

First post
Author
Rainus Max
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Reckless Contingency.
#121 - 2015-04-30 11:03:39 UTC
Sorry to be a stick in the mud but could we have a 'lock rotation' option? I've gotten used to a flat 2D map with tenal/branch as the clusters 'north pole'. I see a point in allowing you to rotate the map but I can see times where a static map base is useful.
Dark Armata
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2015-04-30 11:11:05 UTC
Have spent some time scanning with the new map.

To say not impressed is a huge understatement.

The lag/delay needs to be completely removed.
Circle needs to be a cursor.
Icons need to more "background" when you have probes out. Currently can make probes very hard to use.
Probe/Dscan/Overview/etc needs to be able to be on top.
Selecting a probe result to display on the map is very buggy, some times they show, sometimes not.


Please have someone spend a couple hours scanning with the new map before making the final decision to remove the old one!

I like scanning, I really do. However removing the old map for the current version of the new map will be terrible for scanners.

W-Space IS Best Space

Liz Aun
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#123 - 2015-04-30 11:20:25 UTC
While the new map looks good it is not very good for scanning.


  1. It is very hard to see the orbital lines for planets
  2. Bookmarks and icons clutters the view
  3. The zoom level can't go as close as the old map, making it much harder to fine tune your probes for the weaker signatures
  4. The circular mouse pointer makes it extremely difficult to grab your probes or rezise them


I like the new map but i propose that the old system map is kept as a dedicated probing map
Jenshae Chiroptera
#124 - 2015-04-30 11:33:52 UTC
arsonist Igunen wrote:
the new map is bad and you should feel bad
I know this is some of that rubbish that echos in empty heads but think about it.
Here is someone trying to make something new.
If you want someone to feel bad about making new things then CCP will dwindle down to safe and boring very quickly.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2015-04-30 13:13:45 UTC
I find it really sad that I have never heard anyone say that the scanning map is good. Neither in the forum, nor in starter corp chat, nor in other chats.
It is sad because it proves the point that it was pushed out too early :c

Now I know from personal experience that a game company cannot be blamed in it's entirety for decisions. It is easy to say "blame CCP" when nobody knows what goes on behind the curtain.
My guess is, the starmap team said "it is not ready" but someone else in marketing, management or elsewhere said "It's booked for this update, so we ship it, just continue working."
Or it could have been like "let's release it and see what happens with the feedback".
Both scenarios are not really helpful and I still think the system map should have been more polished before the "official" default release, and that pushed back to the 2nd June expansion.

Again, I understand the need for a new map, and I understand the possible necessity of needing to build it up from the ground because maybe the old map was one of those dreaded "legacy code" things where no change could be made. Or it was more feasible to create an entirely new map that connects better with branching connectivity through other parts of the game of which some are yet to come? I don't know for sure, but I know that I want to help as best as I can to make the new map worthwhile c:
I'm more or less required to use it all the time so I might as well help.

I fear we have some "incarna" problem. Forcing captain's quarters upon people didn't work so well, and I sincerely hope that the new starmap will not become a second coming of Incarna-rage. I do look forward for all the improvements made to the starmap, and I look forward to carry my weight to at least try and getting there c:

Oh and a last thing why it is so important that I mentioned starter corporation;
I'm not sure if you know, but all the helpful people in CAS, from veterans to "still on trial" have a much harder time to get new players around in Eve. There are a lot more questions and irritations coming from new players than before with opportunities and we need a lot more manual guidance. The same with the starmap. The best thing we could do to help them is tell them how to activate the old map, and all of them have been thankful for this.

The consensus of all the dozens of players I see daily in my corp chat is: "new map looks (a bit) more pretty, but is a lot less useful."
Messenger Of Truth
Butlerian Crusade
#126 - 2015-04-30 14:44:39 UTC
There is a probe bug where you occasionally can't click on one of the faces of one of the probe cubes, as a different label underneath or near the cube receives the click. Even though the probe face appears to be the frontmost object in the scene.

Trade Hub Price Checker: stop.hammerti.me.uk/pricecheck

Visit "Haulers Channel" in game for all matters courier-related.

Structure name/system API: stop.hammerti.me.uk/api

FreshZone
Goat Herders Inc.
#127 - 2015-04-30 15:55:08 UTC
You really should be able to see the distance to moons/planets in the map like in the old one. Its really difficult to figure out what is in d-scan range or not
Lamajagarn McMyra
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#128 - 2015-04-30 16:09:11 UTC
Just logged in today to notice this new map thing, while it looks pretty sweet i unfortunately found it unresponsive with tendencies towards lagging. Bookmarks and the probe locations stuff covers up to much also. As for the cursor i first thought it was a joke as i heard corpies talk about in on teamspeak but it is indeed more horrible than expected. Noticed we still have the option of using the old map, may bob bless you for this but could you also make it possible to access it through the probe scanner window.

Can't comment on the new starmap as of yet as i can't seem to figure out how to swap into it even.
Kaliba Mort
Dark-Rising
Wrecking Machine.
#129 - 2015-04-30 17:37:14 UTC
The map looks nice, but once you zoom in to system level for probing, it is much less functional than the old solar system view.

1. I don't really want to see all the colors outside the solar system - they reduce the contrast of what I'm doing inside with probes
2. Not enough zoom level
3. At high zoom level, the rotation can be "jerky" (round off errors?)
4. The new window obstructs other windows - sometimes you want the map in the background, not to be in the foreground obstructing directional, scan results window, chats, etc...

Overall, for probing, the old solar system only view is far superior.. and please enable the option of having the new map fullscreen in the background, as with the old map. Or at least, window that does not overlap other windows.
CCP Rise
C C P
C C P Alliance
#130 - 2015-04-30 17:49:28 UTC
Hello

Posting to let you all know that we've been receiving an enormous amount of feedback on the new map, particularly concerning the probing interface. Even though we moved the new map in as the default in this release we are still very hard at work trying to improve it. We are certainly glad we left the old map available for you in the mean time while we work to smooth out any discomforts or problems with the new one.

Expect some crucial fixes to be patched in very soon but also please be patient while we go through all the feedback and try to tackle some of the more complex problems. Hopefully with the next major release we will have a probing interface up to snuff but we won't remove the option to use the old map until that's the case.

Thanks for all the good feedback here as well as through bug reports, direct EVE mails and through the CSM.
o/

@ccp_rise

Ragnar Snowed
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#131 - 2015-04-30 18:32:32 UTC
Hello,

thanks to left the old map availlable, probe scanning isn't usable with the new map.

an other way to use the map is for dscan and the new map isn't usable in this way :

I can't locate planets or moon and align my camera from where I am to a planet and dscan with 30° for find someone

Wilj0
#132 - 2015-04-30 18:35:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Wilj0
Hi,

I agree with other people that the zoom in animation when the map opens has to go. Just like the old map, give us an option to disable animations.

I personally like the zooming inertia, but I can see how it can be annoying to others. If you do remove it, make it an option to enable/disable please.

I would like a button that zooms me out to star map and in to solar system with a cardinal north as suggested previously. Using your scroll wheel 5 times and rotating the map takes too long. This won't be as much of an issue if I could have multiple instances of the map opened at a time where one will show me the solar system and another the star map. But having only one map to zoom in and out with between the two takes too long.

Also, I would like the signatures to automatically show on my current solar system when I jump in. Right now if you select a system on the map and zoom into solar system view then jump into that system, you will not see the signatures until you close and open the map again.


Here is a prototype for a new probe interface. The new look blends better with the theme in Eve and it's radial menu (make it look like the radial menu). It will also improves user experience since the interface will not get in the way of the signature you're scanning and will always be on top of any markers and labels and have clicking priority. So no more selecting a map marker and rotating the camera around when you meant to move the scanning probes or not be able to move the probes away from the center of the solar system because of all the cluttered markers on top of their interface. Also, currently if you zoom out the probe interface covers the spheres and the only way to resize the the probe's scanning strength is zoom back in until you see the blue sphere to click and drag them or use the Probe Scanner window, select all probes, right click and select the size. These added steps could be life or death.

Prototype Probe Interface Example

Note that there is no x, y, z grid movement buttons. This is because the interface will move the probes perpendicular to the current camera angle therefore the UI can always face the camera and be easy to click on. You can even add new key bindings to move and scale the drones (up, down, left, right, num+, num-) even faster.

The UI's outer ring allows you to move/position the probes. The buttons on the top, bottom, left and right are obviously for moving the probes only horizontally or vertically. The buttons on the corners let you move the probes in any direction. The inner ring lets you scale the probes. The inner ring can be removed and you can use the corner buttons for scaling probe strength and let the up, down, left, right buttons move the probes in any direction (don't lock to an axis).

Note the cross-hairs on the center of the UI. This cross-hairs is 3D pointing at the cardinal directions of the galaxy. It serves two purposes. One is to pinpoint exactly the center of your current scan. The second is to give the player a reference to orient himself when spinning the camera around while positioning the probes for a scan (left, front, top).

The interface should come with a scaling slider option to increase/decrease the size of the UI. The UI should not scale when you resize the map window.
Tiran'Sol
Hostile.
PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
#133 - 2015-04-30 18:41:05 UTC
A bit of feedback. I really like the general look of the new map. It looks "great", however sadly I need significantly more time recognizing and processing information. I consider the following things a regression:


  1. Color and size indicator of activity. Distinguishing 1 perosn in a system vs 0 person in a system is hard. This is partly because the color isn't distinct enough from the standard color of solar systems in the overview and partly because the circles are rendered too small.
  2. Cynogens listings are huge. Provi is a huge orange dot now. The rendered circles are overlapping and way too big, making it impossible to distinguish systems.
  3. General colors of system connections don't have enough contrast. In particular with new background. Please have the map have more contrast
  4. Dscanning using the system map doesn't work anymore. We used to jump in, hit the system map button and be able to look around into a direciton and scan. With the new map this is gone as it centers around the sun and not where in the system you are. This is a major drawback as we now are bound to clumsy in-game overlays and 10s delays till they show up.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#134 - 2015-04-30 18:55:20 UTC
CCP Rise wrote:
Hello

Posting to let you all know that we've been receiving an enormous amount of feedback on the new map, particularly concerning the probing interface. Even though we moved the new map in as the default in this release we are still very hard at work trying to improve it. We are certainly glad we left the old map available for you in the mean time while we work to smooth out any discomforts or problems with the new one.

Expect some crucial fixes to be patched in very soon but also please be patient while we go through all the feedback and try to tackle some of the more complex problems. Hopefully with the next major release we will have a probing interface up to snuff but we won't remove the option to use the old map until that's the case.

Thanks for all the good feedback here as well as through bug reports, direct EVE mails and through the CSM.
o/



Do you have any plans to look at the statistics granularity?

It's been mentioned a LOT and I don't recall seeing any notes about it. Apologies if I missed one.
Circumstantial Evidence
#135 - 2015-04-30 19:38:11 UTC
Rainus Max wrote:
Sorry to be a stick in the mud but could we have a 'lock rotation' option? I've gotten used to a flat 2D map with tenal/branch as the clusters 'north pole'. I see a point in allowing you to rotate the map but I can see times where a static map base is useful.
+1
Abstract view is nice, pan/tilt/zoom control is nice, but, a consistent fixed frame of reference is a hallmark of the old 2D map.

Zoom inertia: another vote that this has too much (very cool looking) float in it, leading to undershoot/overshoot of desired result.
tgl3
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2015-04-30 21:34:14 UTC
Aside from all the issues with fullscreen, pan speed responseness, probe icons getting in way of your ability to even click the scan resposition square; why the heck are the moons not viewable? You can't zoom in as far now, meaning you can't pick out individual moons for d-scan or navigational purposes.
Jackie Cane
Chaos Gate
#137 - 2015-04-30 22:33:46 UTC
So a few pointers for the new map.

1) When in fullscreen mode i spent a good 20 minutes or so looking for the map control panel, only to realize it was at the center top. This was because the color of the panel was black, on top of a black background, plus the icons are super tiny. The panel color should be like a light gray or some contrast color so people know where it is. Also the buttons could be a bit bigger. The map controls should be clearly labeled as controls..... not just "Map"

2) The station service window does not automatically close when I open the map in fullscreen.

3) A focus on destination button would be nice

4)why is the flat map ( 2D ) option called abstract instead of 2D or flat map? How will future generations know that QYZM-W is the true north of EVE ?

5) the "color by" menu could stand to be wider so that the list of options can each fit on a single line

6) Recent menu selections should be collapsable

Other than that it looks really nice, and it seems to be coming along pretty well.
Nico Gasha
Emasculation Services
#138 - 2015-05-01 03:16:11 UTC
The new map is not beta. Its more like an epsilon submoron. It locks up the minute you try to move it around. At one point it zoomed off the side of the page and I couldn't get it back to center at all. The old map, you can just grab it an move it around very easily. If I can't even do this, I won't use it. I disabled it immediately.
Sri Nova
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#139 - 2015-05-01 04:31:07 UTC
argh ... missed the link before posting this in the old thread ...

Yeah the new map is pretty and i like the ideas but the usability as far as serious scanning goes leaves a lot to be desired.

takes more clicks to be able to resize probes.

when dragging probes as groups, approaching the top or the bottom of the map focus changes and movement is reversed.

sometimes probes completely disappear off the map. have to relaunch map to get them to reappear.

groups of signatures disappear and become unveiwable on map you have to repeatedly click on the sig id. so it will show briefly.

signatures disappearing all together.. dont know what to make of this one, will scan something down to 70 - 80+ %
next refinement poof its gone. figure it was a weird false positive, scan down something else. enlarge scanning area ..
and there it is again may or may not be able to scan it down depending on ?. regardless sigs are disappearing off the map.


while i was able scan successfully last night there was a lot of frustration involved. that was not the case with the old map.

suggest you have a dev scan down all the drones in a system, so they can experience first hand the issues that are being alluded to in this thread.
LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#140 - 2015-05-01 06:52:00 UTC  |  Edited by: LUMINOUS SPIRIT
Issue: Star map. Setting a series of waypoints for a long route.


When setting up a long series of waypoints across a region, for a ghost hunting patrol for example, perhaps a route 60 jumps long, the new map overloads you with unnecessary information that does not add anything of value, but distracts.

Consider, which is better?

Old map or New map

You can clearly see that the old map fulfills the requirements for display of a route without unnecessary eye candy, AND has a somewhat better perspective, better overview of the region.

This is what i would suggest.

1) Add option to turn off constellation highlighting. This is just annoying, have you tried to plot a route around jita? Look at this mess... Map screenshot
2) Add option to control/remove system name fade-in. Sometimes, I dont care about system names. Actually, i dont care about system names MOST of the time. Just take up map screen space.
3) Add option to display all systems as standard dots with NO color. In new map, even actual color of suns is still multi-colored and annoying/distracting. Eye candy, nothing else.
4) Add option to display all jump connections as simple grey lines. No differentiation between regional and standard gates please. all connections should be the same type of line. No multicolored weirdness please.
5) Route animation and color is also distracting. When the stars are colored by security status on new map, everything is just one red line... Look at this, where is my route? Map screenshot This is just godawful.

Bottom line. New map is pretty, shiny, lots of eye candy, but for the love of god, please give me a basic version with just dots and lines and everything turned off. its a map, not a children's coloring book.


Issue. Scanning.

When scanning, I just need sun, planets, orbits in a thin grey line for ease of orientation, and a detailed level of zoom so i can tell which moon, belt or a nearby safespot a ship is at. Currently, I cant even zoom in enough to see where the asteroid belts are.

For scanning, new map is completely unusable until you add a level of zoom that allows me to see which moon/belt a ship is at.

Suggestions.

1) Where is 'You are here' marker? Where is my ship on the system map??? You think i can see the crosshairs circle that looks like everything else?
2) When scanning, I dont need to see stargate connection lines, they just get in the way.
3) the cursor on the new map, the white circle, blends in with the white on the probe cube and arrows. I cant see what I am clicking on.
40 Zoom level, icons. This is jita 4-4 at maximum zoom. There are like 8 stations there, and some 14 moons or so. Map screenshot. So, which ship is where? Where is my ship? Is this usable? No.
4) When scanning, I dont need over-sized icons of physical locations that just get in the way. See previous screenshot.
5) Remove probe icons, unnecessary.

Also, remove all eye candy please, when Im scanning i could not care less about what color the sun is. Just give me schematic outlines of the system.

Bottom line. guys, go back to the drawing table, and rework the scanning component of the map. Completely rework it. System map should contain MINIMUM of information. No colors, no lines, icons AS SMALL AS POSSIBLE, zoom level maximum, more then old map please, ability to center on celestials, combat probes should automatically center on the sun in formation, ideally everything should be semi-transparent, no instant pop-up that blocks half your map.... a cluster of ships in space should be represented by tiny green dots, not brackets, and pop-up should be transparent if it has to appear.