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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Time to end inter-empire wars? A call for federated Union of Hi-Sec.
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Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#41 - 2015-04-27 14:21:54 UTC
Gilan Isana wrote:
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Everyone's own banner is the right one. Everyone else's banner is the wrong one. There in lies the problem.


Then create a new, uniting 4 fold banner.

Lol


yeah, we tried that.
Gilan Isana
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#42 - 2015-04-27 15:49:28 UTC
Divided the empires will simply weaken each other while the 'defensive' seekers and drifters learn more of our weaknesses, adapt their tactics and pick us off one by one at a time of their own choosing - Divide and conquer.

A bigger war is coming, maybe already upon us. The 'alien autopsy' indicates the drifters are genetically like the jove, but not the same as jove. Are they a threat to the jove? is New eden a stepping stone to this genetically enhanced races invasion plan of Jove space itself?

The cluster will burn - divided, the empires will burn with it.

Stand together, and the whole will be greater than the sum of the parts.

It is clear from many of the replies here that many members of individual empires do not wish to ally. The only thing that will make it happen is a common threat to all. We believe that threat is coming - maybe even already among us. Has it already entered the higher levels of Empire society and Concord?

Only the capsulers are strong enough to unite, and force the empires to come together or face extinction as they burn!
Tyrel Toov
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#43 - 2015-04-27 15:57:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyrel Toov
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:
Lyn Farel wrote:
... Who is James 315 ?


He runs a protection racket for miners in high security space.

Extortion racket. CODE and there ilk don't protect anything. As for the OP, cute Idea, not happening any time soon. There's too much bad blood.

I want to paint my ship Periwinkle.
Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox
#44 - 2015-04-27 16:14:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Gwen Ikiryo
Miss Isana,

Two points.

1) You are going to great lengths to talk the Drifters up as immense threat when, thus far, there is little to no evidence they pose a serious risk to the safety of the entire cluster. While it is true they are extremely dangerous opponents, you have neglected to mention the fact that their numbers are very low, and, more importantly then that, they have shown no obvious hostility to baseliners or even Capsuleers, save for ones that are going out of their way to poke into their business. (And yes, the affair with the conference counts.) Basing the entire crux of your arguement on a single, poorly-understood threat, and using it to violently rebuff any naysayers, isn't winning you many followers.

2) Even supposing you are correct, and the Drifters are going to pose a notable enough danger the nations of the world to force them into co-operation by necessity, this would by no means lead to a lasting union. In fact, historically speaking, there's almost no basis for the idea. While common threats do tend to lead to unlikely military alliances, these alliances have tended to remain military only, and disperse - Or at most, merely continue to exist in that form - after the threat is eliminated.

This is because war, even if you're fighting on the same side, is actually a very bad way to make friends in terms of international diplomacy. A show of force, even when deployed for "good", is inherently intimidating to both friends and rivals, as it forces them to wonder, "Will I be next?" A question which tends to encourage greater defense spending and cultures of jingoism in the military, so long as one party is not massively superior to the other to the point conflict seems futile. It might not seem entirely logical, but there it is.

Indeed, if you want your ambitions to come true, what you should hope for is the complete opposite - For the current conflicts to peter out, and for no new ones to replace them. Once the concept of warfare itself becomes distant enough to the general populace, and culture builds around that fact, that's when the idea of governmental union to various degrees starts to seem not so unappealing. That was how Gallentia united, for example.

Fear drives people into clannishness. Walls crumble more often with disuse then people shooting cannons at them.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#45 - 2015-04-27 17:29:23 UTC
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:

Fear drives people into clannishness. Walls crumble more often with disuse then people shooting cannons at them.


She's absolutely right.The State, in a very real way, has grown militarily strong because it has been threatened it's entire existence by the Federation. It's hard to imagine that we would have sunk so much money into military development, without needing to do so to survive.

The very strength of our opponent has determined the level of strength we've needed to aspire to. Without them, we'd be far weaker.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Ashlar Vellum
Esquire Armaments
#46 - 2015-04-27 18:02:29 UTC
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:

... While it is true they are extremely dangerous opponents, you have neglected to mention the fact that their numbers are very low, ...

We don't know that for sure, what we see now could still be just their second wave of reconnaissance forces or their prep forces.
Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox
#47 - 2015-04-28 02:13:08 UTC
Ashlar Vellum wrote:
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:

... While it is true they are extremely dangerous opponents, you have neglected to mention the fact that their numbers are very low, ...

We don't know that for sure, what we see now could still be just their second wave of reconnaissance forces or their prep forces.


Mister Vellum,

You're correct, of course, but if this is what you choose to pick at, I feel like you've sort of missed the essence of what I was trying to say.
Elmund Egivand
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2015-04-28 02:27:18 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:

Fear drives people into clannishness. Walls crumble more often with disuse then people shooting cannons at them.


She's absolutely right.The State, in a very real way, has grown militarily strong because it has been threatened it's entire existence by the Federation. It's hard to imagine that we would have sunk so much money into military development, without needing to do so to survive.

The very strength of our opponent has determined the level of strength we've needed to aspire to. Without them, we'd be far weaker.


It fricking helps that The State has one heck of a competitive economy, and it is something the Republic could learn a thing or two from.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.
Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#49 - 2015-04-28 05:43:05 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:

Fear drives people into clannishness. Walls crumble more often with disuse then people shooting cannons at them.


She's absolutely right.The State, in a very real way, has grown militarily strong because it has been threatened it's entire existence by the Federation. It's hard to imagine that we would have sunk so much money into military development, without needing to do so to survive.

The very strength of our opponent has determined the level of strength we've needed to aspire to. Without them, we'd be far weaker.


It fricking helps that The State has one heck of a competitive economy, and it is something the Republic could learn a thing or two from.


Personally speaking, I would love to see the State trading more with the Republic along those lines. Seeing you guys freed to pursue your own destiny would certainly help us feel safer.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.
Leopold Caine
Stillwater Corporation
#50 - 2015-04-28 10:15:52 UTC
Gilan Isana wrote:

The cluster will burn - divided, the empires will burn with it.


Apparently the old "there's an idealist born every second..." can be continued with "...and a doomsayer soon after. in this context.

Calm down, dear. Nothing is burning yet.
  • Leopold Caine, Domination Malakim

Angels are never far...

Stillwater Corporation Recruitment Open - Angel Cartel Bloc
Komodo Askold
Strategic Exploration and Development Corp
Silent Company
#51 - 2015-04-30 13:55:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Komodo Askold
I've also been brainstorming how to achive what you propose, Ms Isana. Not necessarily as a federated union; the details of social organization are not the main point.

Unfortunately, for now the only real point I've achieved is that we humans are damn difficult to agree. It's like as if it was part of our nature. At the end, supposing we evolved as a single species on a single planet, all our disagreements (which turn into wars eventually) come from our self-preservation instinct. I consider it to be a good thing that we have self-preservation so rooted into us, but it does bring pain on ourselves too.

It seems like in order to make our cultures all "agree", we need to overcome our base communication limitations, given from how our brains evolved. Ironically, the only ones to have really reached some kind of "unity" in the cluster until now are either forced cyborgs, or got their genetics screwed up in the process. Or never where humans in the first place, being drones instead.

I've recently come to the conclussion that the main issue is:

We can't, and we are not willing to, try to agree with anyone else unless we understand their reasons to come to that opinion, their background. Once we do, we may still disagree, but there will not be place for hate (taking hate as an irrational disagreement).

What if we could explain our reasons more effectively? How could we be more empathic than our phisiology lets us to? I wonder how could it be if all humans could share thoughts and memories freely. I'm more or less talking about a hive mind.

No, I'm not talking about losing individuality and/or being forced to do something against our will (brainwashing), although I'm aware the technologies that would allow us to share thoughts and the ones for mind control could be similar. The point is to be able to communicate between each other and share our points of view more effectively and faster, and by extent be able to make decisions about whether to agree with someone or not more rationally, by having all the relevant information.

For example. You are eating at public dining hall and request to have another dish of a certain meal, but the waiter says he can't. With our current communication abilities, both of you have to be willing to ask and listen for reasons, and be in a good mood. If it's not the case, you might even get angry and demand your food, he might no longer treat you well for the following days. With a "hive mind", you know he can't because the food is limited, and everyone should be able to get the same share of that meal. You might both agree the total amount of food is not enough for all the people who eat in that dining hall, so a request is sent to logistics to get more for next time.

You could have similar examples if you took current enemies and took them to a non-armed conversation. You might not reach an agreement on your points of view, but you would understand each other's reasons for your mutual hate. Maybe a peace could not be achived, and you would keep fighting, but at least you wouldn't be consumed by hate.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#52 - 2015-05-01 02:07:17 UTC
I don't see the purpose of this discussion. What you try to do exists already. Every single member of the empires voted James 315 into office almost 3 years ago. The New Order is replacing the old gouverments and we enforce the new law, the New Halaima Code of Conduct.

You don't have to wait for someone to step up and unite the empire. James 315 did that almost 3 years ago and we are in the progress of taking over. We will rescue New Eden from the real plague, the decadency and the lazy capsuleers. We will purge them, remove the week spots in our system, for a better and stronger New Eden.

Join us now, we are the best chance you got for a bright new future.

Evil RatKid
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