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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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CCP - End Passive Income

First post
Author
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
#21 - 2015-04-28 05:06:28 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Oh wait,

I mined my minerals so they free..

I sold my toon for 5bill over 6months so i am 5bill richer.....

Lmao stupid dummy idiot


It costs 5 PLEX for six months and that includes the transfer.

Learn to make a proper character and you get up to 12 PLEX at the sale. That's 7 PLEX or 5.6b profit for an hours work.

Show me anything else in the game where you make 5b an hour.

Mr Epeen Cool
P3ps1 Max
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2015-04-28 12:31:51 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
Oh wait,

I mined my minerals so they free..

I sold my toon for 5bill over 6months so i am 5bill richer.....

Lmao stupid dummy idiot



Ouch, that personal attack I think is against forum rules. Calling out another player a "stupid dummy idiot" wasn't nice. Please, lets keep this civil. That bullet wound will hurt for days.
Sequester Risalo
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#23 - 2015-04-28 14:20:52 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
You forgot the worst form of passive income.

Skill training.

You can make 5 or 6 billion logging in for an hour total over six months. If you are going to rage, that's where you should be directing it.


I think Miss Moss failed the grade 2 english class before starting an Economics 202 macroecon class.
The term "make 5 or 6 billion" clearly has to be interpreted to mean profit not turnover. If the latter would be the case, her remarks would be correct, albeit less than courteous.
Enya Sparhawk
Black Tea and Talons
#24 - 2015-04-29 20:06:48 UTC
???

Why would you post such a foolish idea P3ps1 Max just to have one of your alts ridicule it?

(Man, just nut up already)


Fíorghrá: Grá na fírinne

Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad.

Bíonn súil le muir ach ní bhíonn súil le tír.

Is maith an scéalaí an aimsir.

When the lost ships of Greece finally return home...

Myrradah
Apotheosis of Caledvwich
The Wraithguard.
#25 - 2015-04-29 22:55:04 UTC
Mr Epeen wrote:
P3ps1 Max wrote:
Enough is enough! There is currently little to no risk involved for the vast majority of isk making in EVE! From Moon mining to planetary interaction and even research there is hardly ANY risk involved. Please remove all passive isk from the game!

Many players use these tools to plex accounts.

There is little incentive to do anything else.

Passive isk is killing the game.

Hell, there's no real reason to log in anymore.

Please put an end to passive income!



You forgot the worst form of passive income.

Skill training.

You can make 5 or 6 billion logging in for an hour total over six months. If you are going to rage, that's where you should be directing it.

Mr Epeen Cool


As others have stated, you have to be smart about this. You CANNOT sell a toon at cost which is what Eve appraiser is. it gives you a cost number for the most part.

The tricky part is projecting where you think the demand for a specific skilled character will be in 6 months. then if you are wrong, you taker a hit.

Ive sold about 7 toons, made a minimum of 10% and a max of 60% profit. From a rorq pilot to a specific HAC Minny combt pilot etc.

Its not a no risk gambit. Lots of risk there.
Miriana 'Trauma' Dallocort
nul-li-fy
#26 - 2015-04-29 23:39:21 UTC
There should be no isk making. Missions give just reward points that you can turn in for ships. When you get blown up, the enemy fleet or solo player gets a percentage of your ship value based on current avg new eden prices highsec regions. Make bounties actually mean something. When a certain faction doesnt like you, they put a bounty on you in the form of a ship or fleet of ships reward. Eliminate wealth entirely. Just have ships as currency lol.
Kessiaan
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2015-04-29 23:44:45 UTC
Miriana 'Trauma' Dallocort wrote:
There should be no isk making. Missions give just reward points that you can turn in for ships. When you get blown up, the enemy fleet or solo player gets a percentage of your ship value based on current avg new eden prices highsec regions. Make bounties actually mean something. When a certain faction doesnt like you, they put a bounty on you in the form of a ship or fleet of ships reward. Eliminate wealth entirely. Just have ships as currency lol.


In these games, in the absence of a viable in-game currency the players will just create one. Any item that is small enough to lug around in quantity and kind-of-but-not-really rare will work. SOJs in the Diablo 2 being the most of-cited example.
Reiisha
#28 - 2015-04-30 00:08:15 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Feel free to set up your own risk free moon mining operation.


While the OP may be going a bit far, the jist of the issue is that there are a lot of activities in EVE that don't require you to log in for long stretches of time, relatively to what you're getting out of it. PI and moon mining are the most prominent examples.

It's not about defending the latter either, but about how little interactivity such a system actually needs to work, and still be profitable. I would argue that the amount of passive activities in EVE is a direct cause of the stagnation of the amount of people online (of of, you know what i mean), and that has to be looked at.

If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all...

Dots
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#29 - 2015-04-30 00:11:48 UTC

Reiisha wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Feel free to set up your own risk free moon mining operation.


While the OP may be going a bit far, the jist of the issue is that there are a lot of activities in EVE that don't require you to log in for long stretches of time, relatively to what you're getting out of it. PI and moon mining are the most prominent examples.

It's not about defending the latter either, but about how little interactivity such a system actually needs to work, and still be profitable. I would argue that the amount of passive activities in EVE is a direct cause of the stagnation of the amount of people online (of of, you know what i mean), and that has to be looked at.


They both have interaction.

Moon mining is about securing space.. and as baltec1 has said, good luck establishing your own. PI requires collection and hauling.. which has about as much "interaction" as mining.

I don't believe OP has a point. Let's ban people with PLEX Buddy links in their sigs or on Reddit sidebars because they are getting passive income too!

everything is better with ᵈᵒᵗˢ on it

New Player Opportunities: a gallery

13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2015-04-30 00:13:51 UTC
Best troll thread to date.

Cause logistics are free.

Cause structures are free.

Cause wardecs cant blow your crap up.

Etc.

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices

Asura Vajrarupa
Doomheim
#31 - 2015-04-30 00:57:17 UTC
P3ps1 Max wrote:
Enough is enough! There is currently little to no risk involved for the vast majority of isk making in EVE! From Moon mining to planetary interaction and even research there is hardly ANY risk involved. Please remove all passive isk from the game!

Many players use these tools to plex accounts.

There is little incentive to do anything else.

Passive isk is killing the game.

Hell, there's no real reason to log in anymore.

Please put an end to passive income!


The irony®






10/10, would read again.

Ignorance is the cause of suffering.

Garmyne Atavuli
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2015-04-30 01:05:07 UTC
P3ps1 Max wrote:
Passive isk is killing the game.

Hell, there's no real reason to log in anymore.


Can I haz ur stuffs, for my passive incomes.
Bonezay
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2015-04-30 01:52:29 UTC
Not sure if OP is actively trolling or passively trolling...Big smile
Mithandra
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#34 - 2015-04-30 13:50:14 UTC
Bonezay wrote:
Not sure if OP is actively trolling or passively trolling...Big smile



if he replies more than once its active trolling

If he doesn't reply at all, it's passive

Eve is the dark haired, totally hot emo gothchild of the gaming community

Otso Bakarti
Doomheim
#35 - 2015-04-30 14:03:16 UTC
The only way to end passive income is to totally lose your character if it's killed. Lose all its possessions, ISK, contacts list, messages, bookmarked locations, EVERYTHING - and have to roll another toon. FOR:

as long as you know you aren't going to die, you aren't risking anything ever. Derp.

There just isn't anything that can be said!

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#36 - 2015-04-30 14:10:41 UTC
Sequester Risalo wrote:
Mr Epeen wrote:
You forgot the worst form of passive income.

Skill training.

You can make 5 or 6 billion logging in for an hour total over six months. If you are going to rage, that's where you should be directing it.


I think Miss Moss failed the grade 2 english class before starting an Economics 202 macroecon class.
The term "make 5 or 6 billion" clearly has to be interpreted to mean profit not turnover. If the latter would be the case, her remarks would be correct, albeit less than courteous.

No, you're not making 6 billion profit on a 6 month old character.

At most they have around 9 million SP and sell for anything from 3 - 6 Billion. When you take in the cost of the account (Power Of Two is often a good way to do it when it runs) and the $20/2 PLEX to transfer, the profit is relatively low on a 6-month old character.

As an alternative, you can buy already established characters and continue to train those. Then the profit at the end is reduced by the 6-month subscriptions cost, the initial purchase cost and transfer. It is possible to make good profit on established characters, but 1 billion profit per month still implies an increase in value of close to 2 billion per month, which is very rare.
Mark88fan Jones
Jones Brothers Inc.
#37 - 2015-04-30 16:45:50 UTC
Well for a new player, such as myself, I found learning about and skilling up for PI to be a lot of fun. Just placed colonies on 4 planets and that was fun figuring out how to make it work. After running a little over a day, I collected the transmitters and put them on the market this morning for $5 mil. I could have sold for $4 mil, but don't need it right now.

Anyhow, point is that it's fun and a good source of income for new players. I don't see why that would bother someone.
Shakuul
Infinitus Sapientia
#38 - 2015-04-30 18:28:28 UTC
Any source of truly passive income will either be (1) competed down in price until the effort in setting it up roughly equals the gains from doing it or (2) fought over until the cost of acquisition roughly equals the gains.

You observe case (1) with datacores. When they were new, you could make signifcantly more than 1 PLEX/month with a 3 datacore alt, especially since LP used to accrue while unsubbed Shocked. Now with datacores you can expect to make maybe 100mil/month with 3 accounts doing it, or the equivalent of a few hours of mission running. Nothing to write home about.

You observe case (2) with things like moon mining, where alliances fight over the best space and have to invest significant time and effort into moving all of their moon goo around and keeping poses fueled. Arguably POSes aren't even passive income because you have to fuel it and move goods to market, but I see your point.

I would not consider PI to be passive income. It is a huge clickfest and at the end you get a little bit of ISK. This sounds a lot like mining...
13kr1d1
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#39 - 2015-05-01 01:46:42 UTC
Shakuul wrote:
Any source of truly passive income will either be (1) competed down in price until the effort in setting it up roughly equals the gains from doing it or (2) fought over until the cost of acquisition roughly equals the gains.

You observe case (1) with datacores. When they were new, you could make signifcantly more than 1 PLEX/month with a 3 datacore alt, especially since LP used to accrue while unsubbed Shocked. Now with datacores you can expect to make maybe 100mil/month with 3 accounts doing it, or the equivalent of a few hours of mission running. Nothing to write home about.

You observe case (2) with things like moon mining, where alliances fight over the best space and have to invest significant time and effort into moving all of their moon goo around and keeping poses fueled. Arguably POSes aren't even passive income because you have to fuel it and move goods to market, but I see your point.

I would not consider PI to be passive income. It is a huge clickfest and at the end you get a little bit of ISK. This sounds a lot like mining...


Ambivalent to this. You gave a real legitimate response, which can only serve to help non-idiots understand economics, while at the same time, it was technically posted in a troll thread. Blink

Don't kid yourselves. Even the dirtiest pirates from the birth of EVE have been carebears. They use alts to bring them goods at cheap prices and safely, rather than live with consequences of their in game actions on their main, from concord to prices

Antihrist Pripravnik
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2015-05-01 01:53:48 UTC
So this is what we call a forum thread these days.

Impressive.