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Dev blog: X Marks The Spot - The New Star Map Is Out Of Beta

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Isphirel
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2015-04-28 13:09:57 UTC
For what it's worth my spacejob is basically looking at the star system map view 98% of the time I'm logged into my main and if the old map gets removed while the new one is anywhere near this bad, I'm basically going to have to switch to ratting full time or something.
Isphirel
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#42 - 2015-04-28 13:13:11 UTC
Also can CCP please start testing new features, especially around UI and navigation and navigation UI, with a realistic number of bookmarks that a non-highsec player might accumulate after a month or so of living in a region? Maybe preload all the Q&A characters with perches around every celestial and pos bookmarks and instaundocks and, you know, the bare minimum?
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2015-04-28 13:43:20 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
This is exactly what I do not want to do. I want it back like in the old map. I do not want to have to uncheck them when I scroll into the universe map and activate them again when I scroll into the system view. This is bonkers. A two-way selection could work but in my opinion, the old map's setting is still superior to that.

I know, that's why I said so in my second part c:
But the thing is, the old map was separated into two different layers. So there was not even an option in the universe map to begin with. This new one is a unified layer and I don't think they will go back to that. I also don't see why they should go back to that, it's a good idea. The transition just needs to be improved, that's all.

Isphirel wrote:
For what it's worth my spacejob is basically looking at the star system map view 98% of the time I'm logged into my main
Yay I'm not the only one c:
JohnMonty
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2015-04-28 13:50:22 UTC  |  Edited by: JohnMonty
Probing with this new map is bad. I managed to drag my probes off the side of the map and the icons for them disappear, if you run a scan when that happens it takes an ago. Almost like they are moving to where ever the icon are. When I did click on them in the scanning interface the map zoomed over to their location and they were off in the middle of no where and I cant find a way to get them back near any system on the map let alone the one I am in. I tried to recall them and drop them again but they just ended up in the same place. I think closing and opening the map again fixes it.

That is just me spending 5mins playing around. I dont think this new map is anywhere near ready when it comes to using it for probing.


When I first loaded up the map it was a mess as I have bookmarks everywhere, which I need for my role in EVE. The only way I can use the map is if I turn the bookmarks off

What a mess

> "Defenders will also often enjoy the benefits of jump bridges,"

~CCP Fozzie, on behalf of Team Five 0 and the whole EVE Game Design team.
Legion40k
Hard Knocks Inc.
Hard Knocks Citizens
#45 - 2015-04-28 14:16:44 UTC
Genuinely surprised the map was officially launched in this state. In w-space it's pretty broken which is just, bad.

System map - while a client is in Windowed Mode, try to fullscreen the interface - borks so I can't see anything other than..that and the map interface doesn't fill the screen

linky

aaaand if I try to Focus Current Location I get a blank map of nowhere and have to restart the whole client

linky

hope there's a hotfix coming =/
Johann Tollefson
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#46 - 2015-04-28 14:20:45 UTC
Just moving the probes around is painful. The arrows are two dimensional so any time I want to adjust my location I have to spin my view so I can select. If I grab one an at odd angle suddenly they rocket onto a crazy vector. Then I get to zoom out, lag, find the probes, lag, try and get them back where they were, lag, and finally just scoop and relaunch.

Make the flat arrow a cylinder.

It's also very tough to resize the spheres as a group. I just can't seem to snap and grab like before. It seems as if the sphere is just a few millimeters off.

The resolution is quite lacking, I can't get down close enough. As others have mentioned the bracket system is weird, stacks oddly, and once you throw some bookmarks into the mix it all turns into a **** salad.

I think this has the ability to be a good map, it just needs to get tweaked.
Tralusi Pahineh
Friendly Mercenary Network
#47 - 2015-04-28 14:43:39 UTC
the best thing they can implement for probing is to made an option with "simple mode" (old map) and "normal mode" (new map)
this would be the best for all explorers.
X4me1eoH
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#48 - 2015-04-28 14:50:24 UTC
Filters on the map is completely unreadable. 1 that the 18 people in the dock, look exactly the same. 50 point barely larger in size, no difference visually.

http://i.imgur.com/yTEy4kB.png

Гайды по еве: https://www.youtube.com/user/X4me1eoH/feed?&ab_channel=X4me1eoH
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#49 - 2015-04-28 14:53:49 UTC
JohnMonty wrote:
When I first loaded up the map it was a mess as I have bookmarks everywhere, which I need for my role in EVE. The only way I can use the map is if I turn the bookmarks off

What a mess

Bookmarks Online - the use of this bookmark madness doesn't confide in me. It doesn't only cover all the stars and the actual information that I seek to see, it is also hard to hit the right ones. The old system was way better in that regard.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#50 - 2015-04-28 15:01:51 UTC
Natya Mebelle wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
This is exactly what I do not want to do. I want it back like in the old map. I do not want to have to uncheck them when I scroll into the universe map and activate them again when I scroll into the system view. This is bonkers. A two-way selection could work but in my opinion, the old map's setting is still superior to that.

I know, that's why I said so in my second part c:
But the thing is, the old map was separated into two different layers. So there was not even an option in the universe map to begin with. This new one is a unified layer and I don't think they will go back to that. I also don't see why they should go back to that, it's a good idea. The transition just needs to be improved, that's all.

I could not care less for CCP's intentions. They turn the map into a worse system to use than it currently is. If they cannot figure out how to get these formerly separate layers properly transfered over into their new system, which they impose on us sooner than later, they should scrap it and stick with the old system. They remove essential functionality from the map with the current iteration of the new map, they make it harder to do things with the new map compared to the current system and the fancy new looks hold less information accuracy than the old system. I'm not someone who usually is against new fancy stuff and eyecandy, but I insist on that this does not go at the expense of functionality and usability. This bookmark madness, to name only one example, perfectly demonstrates the outrageously bad implementation of the system.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Manic Velocity
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2015-04-28 15:05:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Manic Velocity
I just want to parrot my suggestion from the old thread:

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5697363#post5697363

The inertia is very annoying and it slows down probing significantly. Please give us explorers a toggle to disable it.

And a new point of contention: the cursor is essentially a thick border around an invisible single-pixel pointer. I can never be certain if I'm clicking on my intended target. I just have a vague idea of "maybe somewhere in here, hopefully" when I move the circle over anything.

I don't see the reasoning to have a completely different (and less efficient) cursor in a single area of the UI, while the rest of the UI uses a more universally understood (and functional) cursor.

"The most punchable face in New Eden."

Be excellent to each other.

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Cara Forelli
State War Academy
Caldari State
#52 - 2015-04-28 15:06:33 UTC
The solar system map must, must, MUST have a functional D-scan mechanic! The absolute fastest way to find targets is through dscan via the old solar system map. Any other method pales in comparison. The new map is useless for this.

I will have the new map disabled until this is implemented. Dscan is my number one reason to open the solar system map, not just a rarely-used extra feature.

Want to talk? Join my channel in game: House Forelli

Titan's Lament
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2015-04-28 15:56:39 UTC
Rivr Luzade wrote:
*snip*

Trust me, I do not like parts of the new map and that is why I wrote pages of pages to help improving things. Just like you do c: No reason for us to get upset at each other, instead we continue to bring up good points in a reasonable manner.

The new map can still be opted out, in the settings, like the beta map could be tried out earlier. The "new map" is not yet mandatory. But the new map is meant to stay so the best thing we can do is help improve it, right? c:
It is entirely possible that the old map was part of the legacy code problem, which is why they couldn't iterate on it, which is why they decided to make a completely new one. Please consider this too.

So here we are, writing all our stuff. There is no reason to flak CCP over and over again for the same things. It's here, it's CLEARLY not finished, as CCP said themselves, so let's make the best to improve it c:
Ound
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2015-04-28 16:04:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Ound
Well done with the improvements on the new map, but there are still things to be done.

1. A small thing. Wormhole systems don't have a sun (it's not shown on the map). It's often useful to center on a sun so that you can see entire system from perspective of a sun, helps navigating.

2. A big thing. Solar system detail, I think this is the biggest gripe for me of the new map. It lacks detail, I cannot zoom in close enough to distinguish individual moons, it's very useful to see layout of POSes or ships that you have scanned down without warping to them. I think this is one of the main things for me that I would like to see you guys to work on.

On top of that, I think that the icons are weird, not a huge fan of stacking teardrops but I have no better ideas, however, this ties closely to #2 since if we were able to zoom in close enough, there would be no excessive icon stacking I suppose.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#55 - 2015-04-28 16:25:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Rivr Luzade
Natya Mebelle wrote:
Rivr Luzade wrote:
*snip*

Trust me, I do not like parts of the new map and that is why I wrote pages of pages to help improving things. Just like you do c: No reason for us to get upset at each other, instead we continue to bring up good points in a reasonable manner.

If it sounded like I was upset at you, this is not the case. The one and only group I am upset with is CCP. They have implemented barely anything from previous feedback, skipped most the suggestions and just fixed some bits and pieces. This thing is going to be made mandatory in the next patch in whatever state it is in, just like the industry interface which still lacks functionality and has bugs (like column sorting transferring over between different activity settings in the jobs tab (when I select History and sort the entries in the End Date column, all the entries are also sorted by the End Date column in the All Active Jobs setting. Completely pointless and only one example.) Thus, I have profound doubts that CCP is doing their best to make this map disaster a more or less functional system.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
Natya Mebelle
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2015-04-28 16:33:53 UTC
Okay, that's fair c: Thanks for clarifying that you're only upset at CCP. The response sounded a bit harsh :D

Maybe they had to push it for the deadline and couldn't get things done soon enough. It's maybe a reason, but not an excuse. I admit there have been lots of changes made for the better on a starmap level since they first introduced it. I do believe the system scanning was maybe too early on to ship. They might have been better off with delaying it for 2nd of June, but then again, schedules need to be met. It's a company after all.
But I think they're going to push more resources into the starmap since this is a thing that literally every player takes part in one way or the other.
Alex Boeing
Absolute Order XVIII
Absolute Will
#57 - 2015-04-28 16:34:40 UTC
In truth, in spite of its visual appeal, the practical part of the map is terrible. I want to comment on the system map. When I open the system map, it means that I'm interested in a SYSTEM map, I do not need anything extra there and around. This means that I'm looking for some things specifically for this system, maybe scaning, maybe looking for a distance between objects. And all it is in old simple schematic map in the spirit of Eve. In the new map, i really can't scan, due to the fact that the cursor is round, like it is a constant load, and the icons of the planets, moons and other things just enormous and in addition to all swell even more. Im trying to move the probes, but uh oh, they are completly on planet and im picking plant... than planet ... than planet... and after 3 times i hit the probes. Very nice. But the worst thing is that there is no distance marking between me and objects. This function is extremely usefull and needed. Since you first entroduced this map, i switch it off, mostly because of scanning
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#58 - 2015-04-28 16:38:07 UTC
Then they should rethink their deadlines. Wasn't it CCP Seagull herself who boastfully announced that their new, 5 weeks release cadence would allow them more flexibility and to release stuff in between bigger releases? So far, I have not seen any benefit from that (Ok, that they didn't release the industry changes as planned shortly after the last years fanfest was good, considering how poor it was still months later). They also do not really have the manpower for more people on that project. They need everyone on Sovereignty because this must not be a poor performance.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.
BackstreetsRoy
Bittan Research
#59 - 2015-04-28 17:11:47 UTC
Ok my feedback –

Solar System map (scanning)
- Inertia is an absolute pain, the old map was crisp when zooming – this is a useless feature
- Not possible to use the tactical overlay which I use often to gauge distance from objects (as when constantly zooming - a constant reference is needed to gauge distance and the tactical overlay provides this so I would like this feature back)
-There is too much clutter on initial probe deployment which can make it impossible to click the probes-centre-cube to reposition probes quickly. You must use an arrow to move it initially and then the cube can be used. Granted this used to happen sometimes on the old map but happens more often on the new map (more / larger icons maybe ??)
- When the probe-centre-cube is double clicked to centre the probes it readjusts the zoom which means; double click to centre, then swear and have to re-zoom to the position I was in (really annoying “feature”)

Star Map
- I cannot orientate myself in the universe with the new map. In the old map (flattened) I can see exactly where I am, know how near various systems and regions I am and clearly know where I am heading to. The new map is absolutely useless for that – and made worse by the fact that it also rotates so there is no constant orientation displayed. Do I really have to have a second screen open with Dotlan on it to see my orientation in the EVE universe??????
- Route Planing. I scan HS, LS and NS and in each area I open the map and click on various systems to create a route (either a circular route or to head in a certain direction). On the new map this is not possible due to the inability to orientate oneself in the universe (see above).

In summary then, I consider this a shiny new toy which has lost significant functionality and looks like it was designed by someone who doesn’t actually use it (remember the scanning filter anyone????)

I hope that when it is forced on us there is selectable option somewhere to just keep using the old map.

Roy

Ps I could honestly live with the new solar system map as it is usable (just annoying) but that’s not really a great testament and if new stuff loses functionality then it is not a success in my opinion. The star map though is garbage for my uses.
Pps If any of my problems are due to my ineptitude in setting up the new map then please advise me accordingly and I will try again. Until then It's selected off.
Wilj0
#60 - 2015-04-28 18:52:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Wilj0
Hi,

The new map looks way better and it is so much nicer to navigate with the star map to solar system transitions.

Here is a list of things that would improve my experience with the new star map:

  • The map has a background sound that restarts every time you scan, move, scale the probes. The sound is distracting, let me mute this sound. I always have the map open.

  • Scanning probes shake repeatedly at times.

  • When in fullscreen, centering the map's camera on something does not use the center depicted when you offset the camera in the display options.

  • Let us move the map's title bar to different location when in fullscreen.

  • Let us open multiple instances of the star map. One to be zoomed in on the currently solar system (which I would like to auto-center on the solar system, not my ship) and one for the star map with my planned rout (which I would not like to auto-center on my location... so different options for each map opened).

  • Let me lock/pin the map in position.

  • Let me dock the map as a tab into other windows (stacking).

  • The map currently snaps to the edge of the screen; let it snap to the widths/heights of other windows as well.

  • Zooming doesn't work when the cursor is over a label.

  • Give me an option to auto-center the map on my position or on the sun of the solar system when I jump a gate.

  • On the star map, when you zoom in enough to show the star names, the labels don't let you select stars under them. Labels get in the way of clicking. Let us remove labels or give the dots of the solar systems priority over the names on clicks.

  • Same as above but with the probes when scanning. Markers and solar system name gets in the way of clicking on the drones. Drones should have click priority.

  • Give us an option to show/hide star names. I'd like the star names to only appear when I hover over the star not when I zoom in far enough.

  • When I shrink the map to it's minimum size in floating mode I can not interact with the scanning probes. Their manipulation cube icon is way too small. Make the scanning probe's icons 3x bigger, don't have them scale with the window, or give us a slider to re-size them ourselves.

  • I usually run into the problem of selecting the probe's arrow that is perpendicular to my current view and dragging. This make my drone run towards or away from my camera view very, very fast! To find the probe I need to zoom way out and drag him back in place. Sometimes I can't zoom that far out so I need to rover my probes, reload, and relaunch them. Do not let me select the arrows perpendicular to my view... disable them depending on my camera angle. Who wants to select those arrows anyways, I usually just click on the face of the cube to move the probes.

  • The scaling of the probe's scanning area is not as sensitive as it could be. I've hovered over the probes "edge" of the sphere to click and drag to scale them and the scanning sphere does not highlight. I need to keep hovering over other probes until it highlights.

  • Let us double click on signatures to center the camera on them even if they are still spheres or two dots. for two dots just center the camera on the median point.

  • The angle of the camera at the north and south pole of the solar system map is very wide. I know I can not place the camera at exactly the north or south pole due to divide by zero error; but it can be closer than it currently is. This will allow us to move the probes with more precision on top of a signature.

  • The signatures are a little hard to see when they are shown as a sphere.

  • The black background on the markers blends into the map's background too easily. The only thing you really see is the white icon.

  • Give us an option to show markers (like bookmarks) only when zoomed in to solar system view and vice-versa.

  • For scanner probe positioning maybe show a radial menu around the scanning sphere of all the probes that when clicked and dragged lets you move the drones up,down, left, right relative to the current camera's angle. The "corner" buttons (top-left, top-right, etc...) will move the probe's in any direction, not just up or down, but also left and right. Right click and dragging anywhere on radial menu will let you scale the probe's sphere size. Or have an inner radial menu for scaling. The probe radial menu should have input priority over markers and labels. This way we can get rid of the old cube with arrows to manipulate the scanning probes and solve a lot of issues with selecting, dragging, and scaling them.

  • Let us select more than one "statistic" on the map. Currently we need to toggle between show sec-status, players in system, ships killed, etc... Get rid of the glowing dots that are hard to see the information of a system next to another system that has an overwhelming stat covering the map. Maybe implement the statistics as bar graphs on top/next to the name of each solar system. Give them a maximum height... maybe as tall as the text and let us display as many of these statistics as we would like. Maybe let us select the bar graph color, maybe the color depends on the size of the statistic. Maybe even give us a slider to increase or decrease the statistics bar graph size. You can even let us pre-select the solar systems/regions we would like to show this information on and not show the statistics on rest of the solar systems. Doubt the bar graph idea will work. It might get too busy... but their has to be a way to show multiple statistics at once.


Keep it up CCP!

Cheers,
Wilj0