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Drake or Raven for angel ratting
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Cleo Pandora
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-09-14 05:15:00 UTC
Hello everyone im new to angel ratting and have been using a drake for a while the tank is fine but the dps is low.

I want to move to a raven but i dont think its worthwhile, or so i think.
The raven has better dps but cant hit frigates or crusiers a swell as a drake can. The drake dos'nt need a tp or rigor rigs, but the raven does to hit frigates and crusiers effectivly.

The raven could hit the BS and kill them faster, but to survive the sites like havens, it would need a good tank and to have a good tank to last that long you need to fit ccc rigs to give you enough cap to run your tank pretty much stable, so i would'nt be able to fit rigor rigs or a TP without losing tank. i know the raven has med and lights drones which help kill smaller ships but that is not as good as the drake at killing them, but if i swapped ship from a drake to a raven, will it actually speed up ratting and increase my isk per hour. So why change to a raven to me it dos'nt feel like a major inprovement, and would it actually increase my isk per hour?
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2011-09-14 05:39:29 UTC
Haven't used a drake OR raven before, but i know with Angels you could use Torps pretty well on your Raven for a nice DPS output increase

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Cleo Pandora
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-09-14 06:35:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Cleo Pandora
Yes i was thinking about using torps, but by the time they are in range cruise missles could have killed most of them because they start at around 50-45km, then appouch you, you could wait and hit them with torps, which way is quicker i dont know... this is why im so confused, then theyres the even bigger problem of being able to hit the cruisers and frigates, i can use drones but drones are'nt as good as a drakes heavys and drones. Plus to fit the raven to make the torps hit smaller ships means sacrfising tank, then i wont be able to run the havens or sanctums and lose out on making isk all together :P To run a haven i need about 450 eft tank i think to run a sanctum i think you need around 650 i think... i really need some good advice, which to go for and how to fit the raven to effectivley clear the havens and sanctum in the best way possible

Still to buy a raven or navy issue so any fit surggestions would be great and i have about 700mil isk to spend. But i dont want to risk this investment if the raven dos'nt make much of an inprovement :P
Postitute
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-09-14 06:49:24 UTC
If you can fit t2 launchers and fling scourge fury missiles, then I would go with the Drake. It's much faster going between belts (you do a lof of that ratting). It's cheaper to loose. It gets better applied damage vs many angels ships than cruise missiles, and espeically torp alternatives. I've not tried using 3x rigors to be honest, but then you still have explosion velocity issues.

If you can't fit t2 missiles on your drake, then consider doing a cruise Raven.

Did I mention the Drake is cheaper to lose?
Cleo Pandora
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#5 - 2011-09-14 07:00:10 UTC
Postitute wrote:
If you can fit t2 launchers and fling scourge fury missiles, then I would go with the Drake. It's much faster going between belts (you do a lof of that ratting). It's cheaper to loose. It gets better applied damage vs many angels ships than cruise missiles, and espeically torp alternatives. I've not tried using 3x rigors to be honest, but then you still have explosion velocity issues.

If you can't fit t2 missiles on your drake, then consider doing a cruise Raven.

Did I mention the Drake is cheaper to lose?


Yes i can use t2 heavys, and i totaly agree, but ive not used a raven much infact ive only used 1 once in a pos bash. Ive never left a womrhole till now... lol i sound like a test tube baby but.... honestly.. i dont know nothing in null sec how to maximise my isk per hour or what ship to use to do it.. You say drakes have better applied dmg to angels, is that because of the ship bonus to kinectic dmg?? or just the overall fact that the targets move fast and heavys hit them better etc. Btw is going from one belt to another qicker isk per hour than doing havens non stop in a drake or raven?
Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#6 - 2011-09-14 14:20:06 UTC
My suggestion is to go for the Raven, but I'm old school. The RoF bonus means you can use explosive damage on Angels. Also, RoF ends up being slightly better than a straight damage bonus.

(Oddly enough, explosive missiles often use lower grade minerals to build. For example, a Devastator Cruise Missile needs 1 unit Zydrine while the other three need 2 units.)

I recommend strong (scout) drone skills and T2 drones. It makes a difference. To avoid rigors and TPs, you can try T2 Precision Cruise Missiles on smaller targets. To help with cap, you can use T2 Shield Resistance Amplifiers (note: train related skills). All of this adds up to a skill intensive scenario, but not an expensive one.

That said, I’ve known people who just stick with the Drake long term and are “happy and productive people.” Using navy or T2 ammo on larger targets will help bring them down faster. Concentrating fire with a group of T2 light drones will help too. If you read the QEN, then you know the Drake is the second most flown ship in Eve (only the Hulk is flown more). A lot of people like it for good reason.

On a side note, there are cap implants: one for recharge, one for total. An extra 3% or 4% each is not a bad thing for an active tank. For a passive tank, the same kind of implants exists for shields.
Usurpine
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2011-09-14 15:26:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Usurpine
I you use a sniper Raven with 2-3 scripted sensor boster with target range scripts and cruise missiles you can snipe all rats down from 240km, you dont need a tank on the raven. With this setup you can do all sites. Fast frigs can be easily killed with small drones, once the get in range.
Cleo Pandora
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#8 - 2011-09-14 16:57:43 UTC
Obsidiana wrote:
My suggestion is to go for the Raven, but I'm old school. The RoF bonus means you can use explosive damage on Angels. Also, RoF ends up being slightly better than a straight damage bonus.

(Oddly enough, explosive missiles often use lower grade minerals to build. For example, a Devastator Cruise Missile needs 1 unit Zydrine while the other three need 2 units.)

I recommend strong (scout) drone skills and T2 drones. It makes a difference. To avoid rigors and TPs, you can try T2 Precision Cruise Missiles on smaller targets. To help with cap, you can use T2 Shield Resistance Amplifiers (note: train related skills). All of this adds up to a skill intensive scenario, but not an expensive one.

That said, I’ve known people who just stick with the Drake long term and are “happy and productive people.” Using navy or T2 ammo on larger targets will help bring them down faster. Concentrating fire with a group of T2 light drones will help too. If you read the QEN, then you know the Drake is the second most flown ship in Eve (only the Hulk is flown more). A lot of people like it for good reason.

On a side note, there are cap implants: one for recharge, one for total. An extra 3% or 4% each is not a bad thing for an active tank. For a passive tank, the same kind of implants exists for shields.


Thank you that was very helpful, i always think using hardeners are better but if i t helps cap tehn your right i could fit rigors thank you very much :D T2 Med and light drone skills are currently being trained and im getting a raven. thanks you.
Alua Oresson
Aegis Ascending
Solyaris Chtonium
#9 - 2011-09-14 19:06:07 UTC
Usurpine wrote:
I you use a sniper Raven with 2-3 scripted sensor boster with target range scripts and cruise missiles you can snipe all rats down from 240km, you dont need a tank on the raven. With this setup you can do all sites. Fast frigs can be easily killed with small drones, once the get in range.



I have done this before. Works very well for running sites as you have stated your intent to do. Warp into the site at 100km, turn away and start shooting. Takes a little concentration of counting volleys to get your efficiency high, but you hardly need any tank at all to run these.

As a bonus, running this way ensures that anyone that warps in is going to be way the hell away from you.

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Funk Doobious
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#10 - 2011-09-15 10:50:00 UTC
Use the drake and save/skill for tengu.
Obsidiana
Atrament Inc.
#11 - 2011-09-15 21:24:03 UTC
Cleo Pandora wrote:
Thank you that was very helpful, i always think using hardeners are better but if i t helps cap tehn your right i could fit rigors thank you very much :D T2 Med and light drone skills are currently being trained and im getting a raven. thanks you.


I’m glad I could help. 8) Shield tanks have a “natural” advantage against Angels, so that helps too. Also, feel free to take a shot at smaller targets here and there. Sometimes you get lucky and one or two volley them. Granted, that usually happens when snipping Serpentis for me, so your experience may vary.

On the same side note as last time, there are missile implants too. The bonus can be in the form of damage, RoF, precision, or range. It’s something to keep in mind.
Mikeh24
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2011-09-16 00:57:29 UTC
Cleo Pandora wrote:
Btw is going from one belt to another qicker isk per hour than doing havens non stop in a drake or raven?


Raven, Torps, Haven, and Warp to zero.

You'll think differently when you make over 15mill every time the wallet updates (tic).