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Raven Navy Issue vs Scorpion Navi Issue vs Rattlesnake | Alternatives?
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Aeon Ecko
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2015-04-26 06:07:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Aeon Ecko
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Aeon Ecko wrote:


No I did not and you said you have nothing more to add so.


Reading your comments i'm really concerned that you are aware of how to run missions and what ship is good for that.


It varies. Things have changed and been nerf or balance what I think or know could be gone tomorrow. I do but that does not mean you have doubts. Its eve nothing is set in stone so I do not type as so
When I look back months later nothing In this thread will be what it was. Its foreshadowing.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#82 - 2015-04-26 06:30:30 UTC
Aeon Ecko wrote:


It varies. Things have changed and been nerf or balance what I think or know could be gone tomorrow. I do but that does not mean you have doubts. Its eve nothing is set in stone so I do not type as so
When I look back months later nothing In this thread will be what it was. Its foreshadowing.


Raven was a solid mission runner for years now. And only dramatic changes should make it useless. Let me ensure you that what we've discussed here would be still worth of reading and aknowledge.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Aeon Ecko
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#83 - 2015-04-26 06:42:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Aeon Ecko
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Aeon Ecko wrote:


It varies. Things have changed and been nerf or balance what I think or know could be gone tomorrow. I do but that does not mean you have doubts. Its eve nothing is set in stone so I do not type as so
When I look back months later nothing In this thread will be what it was. Its foreshadowing.


Raven was a solid mission runner for years now. And only dramatic changes should make it useless. Let me ensure you that what we've discussed here would be still worth of reading and aknowledge.


A ship is only as good as the pilot. Maybe but if OP is not sure WHICH he seems to be than i would help more if he had more than one idea JUST to get some ideas of his or her own. More the merrier. Which is why its good to ask i mean is that not what people in eve tell you to do?

"if you do not know just ask somebody in chat they will help there players running this all the time"

heard that so many times so it could not hurt right? better than flying in and not knowing. I hear you on that but then i see the dev blogs and people up in arm eve on the official fb as well. I seen things and experienced them myself so i do not speak with a god mode on and there have been major changes maybe not on your end but just because YOU yourself have not felt them does not mean it has not happened. Everybody's experience differs. You do not have to nerf something for it to be outdated. You can add new ships or modules to the game that make that ship look less important in comparison. Have you flown the a better ship and had a hard time going back to a ship that you would be your go to ship? its not restricted to just that. Heck i remember when everybody was up in arms about rifters and look at them now. People are sick to stomachs looking at them. Chain of Evolution.

OP has got a lot to look through, good or bad any publicity is good publicity. Back to eve.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#84 - 2015-04-26 07:42:26 UTC
excellent but on question asked by op you've linked some doubtfull fit with set of implants worth of billions and you think it's a good advise for a newbe ?
who are you mr.? i hear some mentoring tone in what you saying but i don't see much of good advises in your comments.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Aeon Ecko
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2015-04-26 07:51:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Aeon Ecko
Tiddle Jr wrote:
excellent but on question asked by op you've linked some doubtfull fit with set of implants worth of billions and you think it's a good advise for a newbe ?
who are you mr.? i hear some mentoring tone in what you saying but i don't see much of good advises in your comments.



Baltec1 has already handle majority of that on asked so no point in beating a dead horse. See his comments for more detail. Good advice depends on how you take it. I could give a speech but what the point if it ls on deaf ears? define good advice? what is good to some is bad to other and what is bad to others is good to some. Can't MAKE it good advice if it is not seen as such. I leave it to the person to comprehend what HE or SHE wants to take from it.

I am a eve player NOT a rocket scientist. What do you want from me? can i live. Enjoy the game forget who is a kobe fan or lebron fan.
W0lf Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#86 - 2015-04-26 16:11:38 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Arthur Aihaken wrote:

I think the Rattlesnake is potentially more forgiving for newer players.


How?

Two weapon systems to train for so it takes twice as long to train.

Two lines of battleship are required to be trained.

You have two weapons to use so you have twice as much work in that area.

Drones require you to look after them and the rattle is not bonuses for light/med drones.

The raven is much easier to get into, cheaper, easier to use and fit. The rattle is something to aim for after you have been in the raven not before.


Its doesnt matter how many skills you need to train to get maximum dps out of a hull, a rattlesnakes way harder to max then a raven but that doesnt matter.

A 2 month old character deals way more dps and tanks way more in the rattlesnake then in any other ship in game due to how well it scales with almost no skills making it the perfect ship for newer players.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#87 - 2015-04-26 17:07:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
[A 2 month old character deals way more dps and tanks way more in the rattlesnake then in any other ship in game due to how well it scales with almost no skills making it the perfect ship for newer players.

Aside from the cost difference (the Rattlesnake being about 2.1x more), even with minimal drone skills it's going to fare quite well.

Raven - Caldari Battleship I ... 6.32 effective launchers
Rattlesnake - Gallente Battleship I ... 5.5 effective launchers plus drone DPS (Geckos are insanely easy to train into).

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#88 - 2015-04-26 17:21:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Market McSelling Alt
Arthur Aihaken wrote:
W0lf Crendraven wrote:
[A 2 month old character deals way more dps and tanks way more in the rattlesnake then in any other ship in game due to how well it scales with almost no skills making it the perfect ship for newer players.

Aside from the cost difference (the Rattlesnake being about 2.1x more), even with minimal drone skills it's going to fare quite well.

Raven - Caldari Battleship I ... 6.32 effective launchers
Rattlesnake - Gallente Battleship I ... 5.5 effective launchers plus drone DPS (Geckos are insanely easy to train into).



Dont forget the survivability, the resists on a RS are higher, and the EHP much much higher.

RS is just all around a better choice for the new and the old player. Raven is a horrible option for Level 3 or level 4.

And the cost is hardly debilitating. RS is 365mil now and the Raven 175mil.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#89 - 2015-04-26 17:27:43 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Dont forget the survivability, the resists on a RS are higher, and the EHP much much higher.
RS is just all around a better choice for the new and the old player. Raven is a horrible option for Level 3 or level 4.
And the cost is hardly debilitating. RS is 365mil now and the Raven 175mil.

It can take a while to train into the full resists for a Rattlesnake, but the substantially larger shield buffer and passive recharge make a huge difference. It really comes down to cost, which for quite a few is academic.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#90 - 2015-04-26 21:38:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiddle Jr
Aeon Ecko wrote:


Baltec1 has already handle majority of that on asked so no point in beating a dead horse. See his comments for more detail. Good advice depends on how you take it. I could give a speech but what the point if it ls on deaf ears? define good advice? what is good to some is bad to other and what is bad to others is good to some. Can't MAKE it good advice if it is not seen as such. I leave it to the person to comprehend what HE or SHE wants to take from it.

I am a eve player NOT a rocket scientist. What do you want from me? can i live. Enjoy the game forget who is a kobe fan or lebron fan.


Let me ask you once again, what is the point of Megathron's fit you've linked? Is that your interpretation of good advise on ship to run missions?

You shoudn't be a rocket scientist neither i am to give advises. But you have to have some level of expertiese which is based on your own experience. In the mean time there are a lot of well known set ups and obvious choices (talking about specific fits) which ones you couldn't ignore.

For example - i did try to run some lvl 4 in a Myrmidon. It wasn't smooth and easy but was some sort of fun.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#91 - 2015-04-26 21:51:00 UTC
If we are going to push the OP towards high damage pirate battleships then we might as well say train for the mach.
Aeon Ecko
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#92 - 2015-04-26 22:16:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Aeon Ecko
Tiddle Jr wrote:
Aeon Ecko wrote:


Baltec1 has already handle majority of that on asked so no point in beating a dead horse. See his comments for more detail. Good advice depends on how you take it. I could give a speech but what the point if it ls on deaf ears? define good advice? what is good to some is bad to other and what is bad to others is good to some. Can't MAKE it good advice if it is not seen as such. I leave it to the person to comprehend what HE or SHE wants to take from it.

I am a eve player NOT a rocket scientist. What do you want from me? can i live. Enjoy the game forget who is a kobe fan or lebron fan.


Let me ask you once again, what is the point of Megathron's fit you've linked? Is that your interpretation of good advise on ship to run missions?

You shoudn't be a rocket scientist neither i am to give advises. But you have to have some level of expertiese which is based on your own experience. In the mean time there are a lot of well known set ups and obvious choices (talking about specific fits) which ones you couldn't ignore.

For example - i did try to run some lvl 4 in a Myrmidon. It wasn't smooth and easy but was some sort of fun.


And yet your asking to TELL YOU what IS and what IS NOT i can't speak on what is good for you or not i am not anyone's parents here. Just suggestion to play off of. It seem OP has not even been in this thread since it even jumped off so no point in ANYTHING until OP has given word. At the end of the day it is THEIR experience and their's alone no one has a say over who does what. I am not Kim Jong Un.
Aeon Ecko
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#93 - 2015-04-26 22:30:54 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
If we are going to push the OP towards high damage pirate battleships then we might as well say train for the mach.


Can you talk to Tiddle Jr and give him some of your wisdom. You seem a reasonable guy. He will not let this go.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#94 - 2015-04-26 22:54:30 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
If we are going to push the OP towards high damage pirate battleships then we might as well say train for the mach.



Mach does not scale well to low skill players. T1 arties and ACs and the lack of ability to properly use a MJD or MWD would be a death sentence in a ship that already has tank issues and relies on DPS for tank.

Rattle is not just a high damage pirate BS, it is a High Damage/High Survivability multipurpose Pirate BS. It honestly is OP, but that is ok. It just happens to be one of the most perfect ships to learn missions in, and also to train to its full potential. Years ago it was the RNI, then the HML Tengu, now its Rattle for kill all and Mach for blitz and Golem for easy street. Mach and Golem are skill intensive, Rattle is good right at lvl 3 across the board and training for one can be done in 30 days. Your skills just make it better with time.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
Arthur Aihaken
CODE.d
#95 - 2015-04-26 23:33:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Arthur Aihaken
baltec1 wrote:
If we are going to push the OP towards high damage pirate battleships then we might as well say train for the mach.

It is more ISK, and you go need really good gunnery skills to really maximize it.

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#96 - 2015-04-27 08:18:22 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:



Mach does not scale well to low skill players.


It took a month to be viable on my alt who had no gunnery or minmatar ship skills, It is a shorter train than the rattle.


Market McSelling Alt wrote:

T1 arties and ACs and the lack of ability to properly use a MJD or MWD would be a death sentence in a ship that already has tank issues and relies on DPS for tank.


Hence my advice of running it in level 3 missions for a while.

Market McSelling Alt wrote:

Rattle is not just a high damage pirate BS, it is a High Damage/High Survivability multipurpose Pirate BS. It honestly is OP, but that is ok. It just happens to be one of the most perfect ships to learn missions in


The perfect ship to learn how to pilot battleships in missions is something you can train into very quickly, is very easy to use and costs as little as possible. That rattle is not that ship.
Amanda Chan
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#97 - 2015-04-27 08:19:37 UTC
Well...this thread got derailed. At the end of the day the Rattlesnake is a damn cheap faction battleship.

It has a very high SP ceiling and also a very low entry SP because of the hull bonus. Yes a Raven would be cheaper, but the OP asked for a comparison between the RNI, SNI and Rattlesnake.
Forum Posts
Doomheim
#98 - 2015-04-27 20:22:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Forum Posts
You can use a rattle before you are even fully trained. Using RHML's instead of cruises, Faction Heavies or Gecko and using a brawler tank akin to a gila's will still be very able, and it will only grow with you. You can switch to Cruise/Sentry/MJD/Active Tanking in whatever combination as you gain more skills.