These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Corporate share return on character sale

First post
Author
Kimsemus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2015-04-23 19:05:16 UTC
I recently ran into an issue where, after selling a character, realized I forgot to transfer a number of corporate shares from him back to the relevant corporations.

It would be good, in my opinion, that this be added to the checklist of things to do when buying/selling characters, or add an automatic feature to do so when a character changes accounts or is sold.

Luckily in my case, I was able to contact the person I sold the character too, and he kindly returned the shares to me.

In all the bustle of transferring a character, I imagine more than one person has overlooked wallet shares in some form or another (I myself have received characters with shares on them through legal CCP-endorsed transfers), so some kind of mechanic for checking for this like the transfer service checks for many other things would be good, or do an automatic swap over back to the corp, or perhaps add a check box during the sale process on the website.

Before the other party returned my shares, I actually received a GM response saying that I could not be helped, because CCP currently lacks the technical/GM tools to transfer shares themselves, and the GM suggested I post this thread here for feedback.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#2 - 2015-04-23 19:16:08 UTC
-1. Actions in eve are supposed to have hilarious consequences. The coolest moments in eve history are all "mistakes", from a titan jumping rather than bridging (askai) , to a sov bill going unpaid (B-R), to director level characters being trusted after being turned (Disbanding of BOB), all were mistakes. Simple, easy mistakes, that led to the highest points in the history of eve.

Steps to remedy this:
1: Stop being a bad.
2: Don't put shares on non-mains or dedicated CEO alts
3: Don't sell mains or dedicated CEO alts.
4: Remember not to be a bad.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Kimsemus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2015-04-23 19:21:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimsemus
James Baboli wrote:
-1. Actions in eve are supposed to have hilarious consequences. The coolest moments in eve history are all "mistakes", from a titan jumping rather than bridging (askai) , to a sov bill going unpaid (B-R), to director level characters being trusted after being turned (Disbanding of BOB), all were mistakes. Simple, easy mistakes, that led to the highest points in the history of eve.

Steps to remedy this:
1: Stop being a bad.
2: Don't put shares on non-mains or dedicated CEO alts
3: Don't sell mains or dedicated CEO alts.
4: Remember not to be a bad.


As edgy as you may be trying to be, this doesn't do anything to address the problem within CCP's current guidelines.

For one, under the current account transfer language, nothing of real value should be left on a transferring character. Shares can be of enormous value. CCP current has no mechanical ability to reverse or fix this if a mistake is made during or after the transfer process, unlike all other assets in the game.

All the things you just describe were things that occurred in game, within CCP guidelines and controllable mechanics, what I described is not.

There are also many reasons to put shares on characters, beyond your clearly very limited understanding of corporation mechanics. The big annoyance is a few shares left on a character just allows them to see (and be annoyed by) every vote that occurs without being able to influence them, at worst, a corporate can inadvertently suffer when someone sells a toon in a corp without checking, which is completely outside the purvue or control of the corporation in question, or CCP.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#4 - 2015-04-23 19:38:13 UTC
Naw... I agree with James. Rules or not, if you make a mistake you pay for it. And either you have to rely on the kindness of others to resolve it... or find some "other" way to get around the problem.

True story: a coprie sold his character and forgot to give up shares. Someone who didn't like us then bought the character and used the shares to see all of our corp-mail.
When we wised up to it... we tried to pay him off. He refused.
So we decided to spam his mailbox (via corporate mails) with lurid stories about midgets and the mechanics of auto-erotic asphyxiation rather anything of actual use.
He returned the shares after a month of this. Apparenly he was beginning to miss his own corps important memos because he had to wholesale delete his inbox.
Kimsemus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2015-04-23 19:41:54 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Naw... I agree with James. Rules or not, if you make a mistake you pay for it. And either you have to rely on the kindness of others to resolve it... or find some "other" way to get around the problem.

True story: a coprie sold his character and forgot to give up shares. Someone who didn't like us then bought the character and used the shares to see all of our corp-mail.
When we wised up to it... we tried to pay him off. He refused.
So we decided to spam his mailbox (via corporate mails) with lurid stories about midgets and the mechanics of auto-erotic asphyxiation rather anything of actual use.
He returned the shares after a month of this. Apparenly he was beginning to miss his own corps important memos because he had to wholesale delete his inbox.


You can't see corporate mail unless you have a character in the corp. Shares do not give you access to corporate mail in a corp you are not in.

You can only see vote notifications.

So, yeah, did you make that up for flavor?
Iain Cariaba
#6 - 2015-04-23 19:42:30 UTC
CCP is not responsible for making sure you crossed all your 'i's and dotted all your 't's. Take some personal responsibility.
Elenahina
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-04-23 19:49:06 UTC
That happened to me once, because I too am a bad.

Petitioned it, quoting the appropriate rule from the character forums, and CCP sent me back the shares with a note that said, in a nutshell, stop sucking.

So they aren't unaware of the issue, and it really is up to the seller to make sure there's nothing of value left on the character in question.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

Kimsemus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2015-04-23 19:50:44 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
Elenahina wrote:
That happened to me once, because I too am a bad.

Petitioned it, quoting the appropriate rule from the character forums, and CCP sent me back the shares with a note that said, in a nutshell, stop sucking.

So they aren't unaware of the issue, and it really is up to the seller to make sure there's nothing of value left on the character in question.


Removed GM correspondence. -ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#9 - 2015-04-23 21:19:21 UTC
Quote:
You can only see vote notifications.

So, yeah, did you make that up for flavor?

Nope.

I don't know what settings you had... but shares DO allow people to read corp-wide mails, not just notifications.
Cade Windstalker
#10 - 2015-04-23 22:35:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
ShahFluffers wrote:
Naw... I agree with James. Rules or not, if you make a mistake you pay for it. And either you have to rely on the kindness of others to resolve it... or find some "other" way to get around the problem.

True story: a coprie sold his character and forgot to give up shares. Someone who didn't like us then bought the character and used the shares to see all of our corp-mail.
When we wised up to it... we tried to pay him off. He refused.
So we decided to spam his mailbox (via corporate mails) with lurid stories about midgets and the mechanics of auto-erotic asphyxiation rather anything of actual use.
He returned the shares after a month of this. Apparenly he was beginning to miss his own corps important memos because he had to wholesale delete his inbox.


As much as this made me laugh I agree with OP. Buying a character is not supposed to give you any sort of advantage over the seller and the rules for selling or transferring a character reflect this. You're not supposed to have any ISK in the character's wallet, so it seems like the shares issue is just an omission by CCP rather than an intended mechanic.

Giving someone shares and then having them turn that around on you is one thing, having someone buy a character and having that person forget to transfer the shares back before hand is another thing entirely. You shouldn't be able to use a bought character to gain this sort of advantage in the same way that you're not allowed to misrepresent yourself as the original owner using the bought character.
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#11 - 2015-04-23 22:57:52 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Naw... I agree with James. Rules or not, if you make a mistake you pay for it. And either you have to rely on the kindness of others to resolve it... or find some "other" way to get around the problem.

True story: a coprie sold his character and forgot to give up shares. Someone who didn't like us then bought the character and used the shares to see all of our corp-mail.
When we wised up to it... we tried to pay him off. He refused.
So we decided to spam his mailbox (via corporate mails) with lurid stories about midgets and the mechanics of auto-erotic asphyxiation rather anything of actual use.
He returned the shares after a month of this. Apparenly he was beginning to miss his own corps important memos because he had to wholesale delete his inbox.


As much as this made me laugh I agree with OP. Buying a character is not supposed to give you any sort of advantage over the seller and the rules for selling or transferring a character reflect this. You're not supposed to have any ISK in the character's wallet, so it seems like the shares issue is just an omission by CCP rather than an intended mechanic.

Giving someone shares and then having them turn that around on you is one thing, having someone buy a character and having that person forget to transfer the shares back before hand is another thing entirely. You shouldn't be able to use a bought character to gain this sort of advantage in the same way that you're not allowed to misrepresent yourself as the original owner using the bought character.

yeah im inclined to agree with this,
yeah yeah consequences and all that (which im normally with ye on) but in the context of a toon sale this just seems like an oversight.

shares kinda suck though so they will probably be looked at when corps get a pass
Kimsemus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2015-04-23 23:04:09 UTC
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Cade Windstalker wrote:
ShahFluffers wrote:
Naw... I agree with James. Rules or not, if you make a mistake you pay for it. And either you have to rely on the kindness of others to resolve it... or find some "other" way to get around the problem.

True story: a coprie sold his character and forgot to give up shares. Someone who didn't like us then bought the character and used the shares to see all of our corp-mail.
When we wised up to it... we tried to pay him off. He refused.
So we decided to spam his mailbox (via corporate mails) with lurid stories about midgets and the mechanics of auto-erotic asphyxiation rather anything of actual use.
He returned the shares after a month of this. Apparenly he was beginning to miss his own corps important memos because he had to wholesale delete his inbox.


As much as this made me laugh I agree with OP. Buying a character is not supposed to give you any sort of advantage over the seller and the rules for selling or transferring a character reflect this. You're not supposed to have any ISK in the character's wallet, so it seems like the shares issue is just an omission by CCP rather than an intended mechanic.

Giving someone shares and then having them turn that around on you is one thing, having someone buy a character and having that person forget to transfer the shares back before hand is another thing entirely. You shouldn't be able to use a bought character to gain this sort of advantage in the same way that you're not allowed to misrepresent yourself as the original owner using the bought character.

yeah im inclined to agree with this,
yeah yeah consequences and all that (which im normally with ye on) but in the context of a toon sale this just seems like an oversight.

shares kinda suck though so they will probably be looked at when corps get a pass


That's all I'm really advocating for, that, and for CCP to develop the tools to correct this if an error is made, in the context of character sales.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#13 - 2015-04-23 23:14:34 UTC
I'm with James on this. Stop being bad.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Omnathious Deninard
Ministry of Silly Walks.
#14 - 2015-04-23 23:34:17 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Naw... I agree with James. Rules or not, if you make a mistake you pay for it. And either you have to rely on the kindness of others to resolve it... or find some "other" way to get around the problem.

True story: a coprie sold his character and forgot to give up shares. Someone who didn't like us then bought the character and used the shares to see all of our corp-mail.
When we wised up to it... we tried to pay him off. He refused.
So we decided to spam his mailbox (via corporate mails) with lurid stories about midgets and the mechanics of auto-erotic asphyxiation rather anything of actual use.
He returned the shares after a month of this. Apparenly he was beginning to miss his own corps important memos because he had to wholesale delete his inbox.

One of the best posts I have read in a while. +1 for the story

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

CCP Falcon
#15 - 2015-04-24 09:55:20 UTC
Well, that's very unfortunate for you.

At this stage, it's not part of the forum rules or character trade rules that you need to hand back shares, so you're not able to be reimbursed these shares.

However, I'll be reviewing the forum rules this weekend for the Character Bazaar given that SKINs are going to change the value of characters quite significantly.

I'll look at including a note regarding shares too, so that the rules are more clearly defined :)

- F

CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3

McChicken Combo HalfMayo
The Happy Meal
#16 - 2015-04-24 11:21:23 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
Naw... I agree with James. Rules or not, if you make a mistake you pay for it. And either you have to rely on the kindness of others to resolve it... or find some "other" way to get around the problem.

The character bazaar has special rules. You can't scam for instance. When it comes to the bazaar the intention from CCP is clearly to divide the characters being sold from the corps they belonged to.

"Prior to leaving a corporation, the character to be sold MUST send a corp-wide EVE mail stating that they are going to be sold and will be leaving for an NPC corporation." - Rule 15, Character Bazaar

"The character being sold must be in an NPC corporation at the time of posting, and for the entire duration of the sale/auction thread being active." - Rule 11, Character Bazaar

It's not a stretch then to propose corp shares do not get transferred either. Especially if they give the purchaser access to corp functions like mails.

There are all our dominion

Gate camps: "Its like the lowsec watercooler, just with explosions and boose" - Ralph King-Griffin

James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#17 - 2015-04-24 11:59:24 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Well, that's very unfortunate for you.

At this stage, it's not part of the forum rules or character trade rules that you need to hand back shares, so you're not able to be reimbursed these shares.

However, I'll be reviewing the forum rules this weekend for the Character Bazaar given that SKINs are going to change the value of characters quite significantly.

I'll look at including a note regarding shares too, so that the rules are more clearly defined :)

- F

This is for the good.

Clear rules, one way or the other, mean that either next time we get to laugh at the bad explicitly, or they get their thing that they read as implicitly part of the rules without any explicit statement to 1his effect.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp

Kimsemus
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2015-04-24 19:40:22 UTC
CCP Falcon wrote:
Well, that's very unfortunate for you.

At this stage, it's not part of the forum rules or character trade rules that you need to hand back shares, so you're not able to be reimbursed these shares.

However, I'll be reviewing the forum rules this weekend for the Character Bazaar given that SKINs are going to change the value of characters quite significantly.

I'll look at including a note regarding shares too, so that the rules are more clearly defined :)

- F


You're awesome CCP Falcon, not asking for change unless it's warranted or might be more clear for players involved, as shares CAN be quite valuable, (more so than, say a capital left on an account) in some cases when you think about it during character sales.