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Despawning people's sites
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Ghenghis Kralj
Big Johnson's
#41 - 2015-04-22 20:46:57 UTC
or khole marauders if you have a nice wh effect like a red giant, wf, or mag
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2015-04-22 20:56:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsukino Stareine
Ab'del

We don't run escalations solo. 1.3bil is split between anywhere from 5 to 10 people. 60 man corp isn't hard to sustain, but we don't want to just sustain.

Art of Explosions
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#43 - 2015-04-23 01:32:17 UTC
1.3b for one site, yeh? now look at worst case of 10 people, that's 130m/person/site (you're doing it wrong if you're doing it with 10 people and not doing other sites on the side FYI), 6-8 sites/night turns out to 780m-1b a night. So at least one T3 if not two in one night. Now you're doing this for 4 nights. If you're blowing through 4b in a month you might just need a better FC.

again, look at all these solutions, but you reject them yeesh. If you want to farm a lot, aka if 4b+/mo can't sustain you, then move holes or get a separate jew hole. Easy as that .

Solution to your problem is out there, just stop being such a babby about it.

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Kashadin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#44 - 2015-04-23 03:09:41 UTC
I'm kinda confused here.

So someone is popping your sites on a regular basis, and your corp doesn't have the time to just run them as they come up since y'all would rather just PVP than jew (I can totally understand that sentiment), so y'all are having a hard time keeping your ISK balance up for PVP ships and whatnot.

But you have said that you understand that there are other ways to get ISK outside of home site escalations.


From my experience with WHs, running home sites actually has the slowest return on ISK when you have a limited amount of time for jewing. Where as encouraging people to go out and farm the static/do other jewing type activities in surrounding holes not only increases the amount of ISK the average person in the corp gets, but it also gets more people out of the hole to look for PVP and scanning down the chain.


It just seems to me like the OP would rather everyone just get more "space honor" and let them and their corp jew in peace and let them PVP when they "have time" than just find things that they can do for ISK while looking for the "good fight" and ganks.
MooMooDachshundCow
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2015-04-23 03:49:35 UTC
Kashadin wrote:
From my experience with WHs, running home sites actually has the slowest return on ISK when you have a limited amount of time for jewing. Where as encouraging people to go out and farm the static/do other jewing type activities in surrounding holes not only increases the amount of ISK the average person in the corp gets, but it also gets more people out of the hole to look for PVP and scanning down the chain.


This is very true. The fact is that if you have multiple scanners you'll find more sites, and if you have people running those sites randomly all over the place it actually brings in more isk than escalations. Any groups that have gotten into server banks have probably seen this.

That was the point of my first post. There are other ways to make your corp faster money than home escalations, and these methods can be repeated ad nauseum regardless of the mean scary people that despawn all your home sites.

If you missed the peak for server banks, I'm sorry for you, but seriously, spread the f out and ninja sites. It's good money, as long as you can be bothered to actually scan lol.

Yeah, well, it's just like my opinion, man.
Andrew Jester
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#46 - 2015-04-23 04:31:36 UTC
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:
If you missed the peak for server banks, I'm sorry for you, but seriously, spread the f out and ninja sites. It's good money, as long as you can be bothered to actually scan lol.


no don't you understand they just want the isk to appear. They don't really want to work for it

If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2015-04-23 07:01:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Tsukino Stareine
Andrew Jester wrote:
1.3b for one site, yeh? now look at worst case of 10 people, that's 130m/person/site (you're doing it wrong if you're doing it with 10 people and not doing other sites on the side FYI), 6-8 sites/night turns out to 780m-1b a night. So at least one T3 if not two in one night. Now you're doing this for 4 nights. If you're blowing through 4b in a month you might just need a better FC.

again, look at all these solutions, but you reject them yeesh. If you want to farm a lot, aka if 4b+/mo can't sustain you, then move holes or get a separate jew hole. Easy as that .

Solution to your problem is out there, just stop being such a babby about it.


Like I don't know if anyone else can be bothered with you but I sure as hell am done.

Stop posting **** you clearly have 0 clue about, that's my final word.

Kashadin wrote:
I'm kinda confused here.

So someone is popping your sites on a regular basis, and your corp doesn't have the time to just run them as they come up since y'all would rather just PVP than jew (I can totally understand that sentiment), so y'all are having a hard time keeping your ISK balance up for PVP ships and whatnot.

But you have said that you understand that there are other ways to get ISK outside of home site escalations.


From my experience with WHs, running home sites actually has the slowest return on ISK when you have a limited amount of time for jewing. Where as encouraging people to go out and farm the static/do other jewing type activities in surrounding holes not only increases the amount of ISK the average person in the corp gets, but it also gets more people out of the hole to look for PVP and scanning down the chain.


It just seems to me like the OP would rather everyone just get more "space honor" and let them and their corp jew in peace and let them PVP when they "have time" than just find things that they can do for ISK while looking for the "good fight" and ganks.


It's not just a problem I'm facing with my corp. From the posts here it seems activating people's sites is common practice. I can't say I haven't done it before (usually in empty systems where the constellation is the same as our home) but as I said it's not healthy for the whole community.

I don't know what kind of experience you have but I haven't found a way to make 500m in one hour in any part of w-space. It's not about space honour or anything like that, In my opinion you're only hurting yourself in terms of content if you wreck someone's income for what could be up to a week.

Also let's think about it like this: risk vs reward. Risk of popping someone's sites in a covops? Literally none. Reward? Technically could shut down any kind of home site running for up to a week, more if spawns are bad. People in that corp stop logging on or stop taking fights they usually would because they can't afford to lose more shinier stuff, you get less fights and of worse quality.

MooMooDachshundCow wrote:
This is very true. The fact is that if you have multiple scanners you'll find more sites, and if you have people running those sites randomly all over the place it actually brings in more isk than escalations. Any groups that have gotten into server banks have probably seen this.

That was the point of my first post. There are other ways to make your corp faster money than home escalations, and these methods can be repeated ad nauseum regardless of the mean scary people that despawn all your home sites.

If you missed the peak for server banks, I'm sorry for you, but seriously, spread the f out and ninja sites. It's good money, as long as you can be bothered to actually scan lol.


We always have multiple scanners online, however as you pointed out, the server bank boom has died and making money outside of escalating home sites is rather pitiful. I understand you technically can make more outside the home hole but again it takes far more TIME.

Art of Explosions
Kashadin
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#48 - 2015-04-23 07:21:50 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:


Kashadin wrote:
I'm kinda confused here.

So someone is popping your sites on a regular basis, and your corp doesn't have the time to just run them as they come up since y'all would rather just PVP than jew (I can totally understand that sentiment), so y'all are having a hard time keeping your ISK balance up for PVP ships and whatnot.

But you have said that you understand that there are other ways to get ISK outside of home site escalations.


From my experience with WHs, running home sites actually has the slowest return on ISK when you have a limited amount of time for jewing. Where as encouraging people to go out and farm the static/do other jewing type activities in surrounding holes not only increases the amount of ISK the average person in the corp gets, but it also gets more people out of the hole to look for PVP and scanning down the chain.


It just seems to me like the OP would rather everyone just get more "space honor" and let them and their corp jew in peace and let them PVP when they "have time" than just find things that they can do for ISK while looking for the "good fight" and ganks.


It's not just a problem I'm facing with my corp. From the posts here it seems activating people's sites is common practice. I can't say I haven't done it before (usually in empty systems where the constellation is the same as our home) but as I said it's not healthy for the whole community.

I don't know what kind of experience you have but I haven't found a way to make 500m in one hour in any part of w-space. It's not about space honour or anything like that, In my opinion you're only hurting yourself in terms of content if you wreck someone's income for what could be up to a week.

Also let's think about it like this: risk vs reward. Risk of popping someone's sites in a covops? Literally none. Reward? Technically could shut down any kind of home site running for up to a week, more if spawns are bad. People in that corp stop logging on or stop taking fights they usually would because they can't afford to lose more shinier stuff, you get less fights and of worse quality.



Risk/Reward is always in flux as far as Eve is concerned.

The biggest money makers in the game are the tech moons in Null sec yet the mechanics for collecting them are literally risk free and with the way most Null alliances/coalitions seem to run even keeping them isn't really all that much of a risk.

As far as WH space goes the, the Risk/Reward for anything again fluxuates a lot depending on what you are doing and how careful you are when you do it.

Running home sites can either be a big Risk with a big Reward if you have the minimal amount of ships needed to run a full escalations and you leave your chain open. Or they can be low(er) Risk with big Reward if you close all the connections and again do them with the minimal ships needed to run a full escalation. OR they can be low(est) Risk with low(er) Reward if you use as many people as you can to run them while closing all connections to your WH and running as soon as a new sig pops into your WH.


And the same is with almost every single activity in the game, the amount of Risk/Reward depends on the actions taken by the person doing the activity.

Get your people out and scanning/hunting. Get them to start running smaller group things in the chain to make ISK. If you consistantly get access to the same areas of Null try setting up siphons to steal moon goo and selling that.

Hell if you are in a decent enough WH with the right planets you can set yourself up with most of the ISK per-month needed for a fuel by just doing PI and that way you might be able to cut down on the money taken out of corp for that and put it towards PVP ships. And most planets in WHs can support a medium sized corp all running the same things as long as y'all work everything out.
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#49 - 2015-04-23 09:02:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Ab'del Abu
So to summarize:

- you want to do escalate sites to your heart's content. There should always be 10 sites in your hole, so you can mad isk whenever you feel like it.
- 150isk/h is not enough, you want dank 500isk/h

Feel entitled much? If I was you, I would apologize and shut up before someone starts looking for your hole. Maybe too late though Blink

PS: This the system that you live in?
ShootThatDonkeyEeyore
Doomheim
#50 - 2015-04-23 10:02:43 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
PL moving to wormhole space now? Cool


PL already in wormhole under Hard Knocks Citizens
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#51 - 2015-04-23 10:36:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Lloyd Roses
Well there is some contrast from escalations to c3 sites, however comparing a corp-pve-op in a c5 and solo farming in the c3, I'd rather do the latter for better ISK/hr.

I have a hard time imagining how a c3 and the sites to be farmed in there aren't worth it for you guys. You talk of a small group so I assume 5+noctis at least, you can run 15+ c3 anoms with that many people an hour. About 50mil each, there's your income regardless of sites that got activated. Salvaging is a lot faster even since sites aren't so streteched out. After about 1-2 hours, you got a new HAC. You won't have the same level of isolation while pveing as in a home system, but you're terribly close.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2015-04-23 12:41:49 UTC
Ab'del Abu wrote:
So to summarize:

- you want to do escalate sites to your heart's content. There should always be 10 sites in your hole, so you can mad isk whenever you feel like it.
- 150isk/h is not enough, you want dank 500isk/h

Feel entitled much? If I was you, I would apologize and shut up before someone starts looking for your hole. Maybe too late though Blink

PS: This the system that you live in?


We want to escalate when we have the people together in the limited time working people have.

500m/h is not unreasonable considering the resources we are fielding to make this ISK.

Sure 150m/h is fine if you're just trotting around in ishtars in a C3, but again Risk should mean reward.

It's absolutely nothing to do with feeling entitled.

Art of Explosions
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#53 - 2015-04-23 12:53:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Ab'del Abu
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
Ab'del Abu wrote:
So to summarize:

- you want to do escalate sites to your heart's content. There should always be 10 sites in your hole, so you can mad isk whenever you feel like it.
- 150isk/h is not enough, you want dank 500isk/h

Feel entitled much? If I was you, I would apologize and shut up before someone starts looking for your hole. Maybe too late though Blink

PS: This the system that you live in?


We want to escalate when we have the people together in the limited time working people have.

500m/h is not unreasonable considering the resources we are fielding to make this ISK.

Sure 150m/h is fine if you're just trotting around in ishtars in a C3, but again Risk should mean reward.

It's absolutely nothing to do with feeling entitled.


Yeah well that's not how it works, unfortunately. If you want sweet isk/hour you'll have to make concessions and make due with what Bob provides (which in a C6 is A LOT).

If you have trouble getting enough people for a full escalation you should consider only doing two waves for example, all it takes is a carrier, a dread and a loki (optionally + boosts and salvager). The isk is shared between less people, so it's just as efficient if not more so ...
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2015-04-23 13:01:55 UTC
That's assuming we have 2 sets of those ships :)

Like I understand what you're saying but you're making up some hypothetical dream situation that doesn't exist.

Art of Explosions
Newt BlackCompany
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2015-04-23 13:03:52 UTC
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:
[quote=Kashadin]but seriously, spread the f out and ninja sites. It's good money, as long as you can be bothered to actually scan lol.


This. If you can't be bothered to scan, you shouldn't be in a wh. If you have corp members who never scan, they are leeches and should be booted for not carrying their own weight.

Scanning is the key skill and constant job in WH life. Get used to it, or move to Null.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2015-04-23 13:06:51 UTC
we've already established that ninjaing data sites is NOT good money anymore. Doesn't matter how much you scan, the best money will be at home (unless this happens)

Art of Explosions
Ab'del Abu
Atlantis Ascendant
#57 - 2015-04-23 13:19:04 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
That's assuming we have 2 sets of those ships :)

Like I understand what you're saying but you're making up some hypothetical dream situation that doesn't exist.


Guess you'll have to wait until you have more capital ships/pilots then.
Newt BlackCompany
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2015-04-23 13:37:43 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:

We always have multiple scanners online, however as you pointed out, the server bank boom has died and making money outside of escalating home sites is rather pitiful. I understand you technically can make more outside the home hole but again it takes far more TIME.


This is normally untrue. With escalations, you get more isk/site, but you have to split it over a larger group of players. Best I could make doing escalations was about 250-300M/hr personally, but it was highly variable. Soloing C4 sites, I can do 3/hour and make 300M/hour consistently, and I can do this in my static so if I run out of sites, I have to roll the static and prep the new hole, but then I have more sites. I'm guessing you can do better if you can solo (or duo) c5 sites without escalations, using marauders or something.
Newt BlackCompany
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#59 - 2015-04-23 13:38:40 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:
we've already established that ninjaing data sites is NOT good money anymore. Doesn't matter how much you scan, the best money will be at home (unless this happens)


True, data sites are crap, but ninja the C5 gas sites and run anoms in the static.
DeathForMeh
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#60 - 2015-04-23 13:40:28 UTC
I wouldn't use so many "we"'s that involve my corpies. Alot of replies present my and not only point of view with finding content in the chain you see no pvp you definately get to find some extra isk you can put ur hands on, and reverted situation while you got the jews getting rich they can find fights in the chain or get ganked and call for rescue, win win situation for me. Now to the topic of despawning the sites in C5/C6 space, I see the existing mechanics beneficial as 4 days is enough to get some change for pvp and sites don't build up for ages in specific systems while warping to the sites spreads them towards multiple systems over n over again so the odds are they are comming back to your home system aswell. So please DO WARP to the sites so they spawn back at our holes. Roll