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Permanent Security Status penalty.

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el cowboy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-04-22 15:34:53 UTC
I think there should be a second level of security status put into the game. I have thought for a long time that there was too easy of a mechanism to be able to do bad things with very little consequence. People can kill people in high and low sec and after a few hours of ratting they can go back and do it again day after day and week after week.

There should be some way that Concord can distinguish which characters are prone to criminal activities independent of their current pointless security status. If someone continually is killing people in high sec they should be flagged permanently or have some very slow recovery of status.

One other thing that might work is the more you have to farm security status the less you actually receive so that at some point you no longer receive positive security status from doing mundane activities like ratting.

Ultimately I just want to see actual consequences for being a criminal in high sec and to lesser extent in low sec.



Ok, now queue the incessant barrage of flaming and care bear comments from people that think it is fun to go out in low vaulue suicide ships because they do not like a fair fight.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2015-04-22 15:36:34 UTC
el cowboy wrote:
after a few hours of ratting they can go back and do it again day after day and week after week.


Said no-one who has ratted back from -10 EVER
el cowboy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#3 - 2015-04-22 15:40:27 UTC
Actually I have brought this toon back from -10. Yes, it takes a while longer than a few hours.

But if you keep up with it and not let your self get to -10 you can stay relatively safe while still doing bad things for very little consequence.
Mario Putzo
#4 - 2015-04-22 15:41:57 UTC
Oh so many angles to come at this from...but Ill be nice today.

You want to know something even crazier. Folks can just buy tags off the market and fix their sec status without even needing to rat. Power to the people!
Cade Windstalker
#5 - 2015-04-22 15:43:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Cade Windstalker
el cowboy wrote:
Actually I have brought this toon back from -10. Yes, it takes a while longer than a few hours.

But if you keep up with it and not let your self get to -10 you can stay relatively safe while still doing bad things for very little consequence.


Which is... more or less the intent of the system?

See: "Never fly what you can't afford to lose" and "the Eve universe is not a nice place" (something about dark, gritty, and dystopian?)

The main consequence is stuff like Kill Rights and people thwarting your ganks and stuff. If you're annoyed that someone ganked you then spend a few hours or days or whatever in an ECM fit Blackbird or Scorpion off one of the main ganking gates and jam the crap out of them every time they try to gank someone.
el cowboy
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#6 - 2015-04-22 15:51:29 UTC
Gate camps are one thing, I am more refering to the going out in catalysts with a cheap fit to kill high value targets. I do not think that tactic is really wrong but there should just be more LASTING consequences than there are currently.

And before you go into do not fly what you can't afford to lose, everything I fly I can afford to lose, but why should I have to keep paying for things to people that in a non linear coded world that favors loopholes and does nothing to hold people accountable for their actions?

Again, I do not mind any of the tactics people use in Eve because it is a game that is harsh. I like that it is harsh and I think it should just be more harsh. The issue is that the game is off balance for how harsh the game is for people that do things legitimately and those that are "criminals". If you made it harsher for people to be a criminal I wonder how many QQ and your making the game too hard posts we would see.
Mario Putzo
#7 - 2015-04-22 16:40:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
You do realize that even with -10 standings that people can and will still enter HS and Gank people right. CONCORD is not a protection force, it is a reactionary force. The onus of protection falls first upon you, and second upon the people you fly with. CONCORD is not a babysitter, they are a broom and sweep away the **** after they are told its ****.

Want to stop being ganked...make an alt, stick him in a rookie ship, and every so often undock shoot your main in the belt and keep CONCORD on grid with you all day. Problem solved....Next!

Also probably 0. Folks who gank will still gank, they don't care about sec status because its quite easy to have an Alt with high sec status get anything and everything you could possibly need from HS...while keeping your ganking toon happily stocked up for more ganking even at -10.
Jimmmy Jones
Nemesis Innovations
#8 - 2015-04-22 16:45:42 UTC
And here I thought someone named El Cowboy would be more supportive of a wild west not ruled by the iron fist of the law.

Maybe we should rename him "El Sheriff"

In EVE, the only thing permanent is Biomassing.

-1. This won't effect recycled catalyst alts anyway.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2015-04-22 16:54:34 UTC
Can you explain to the class why you feel that suicide ganking needs ANOTHER nerf?

And do you realise that a fair few gankers take pride in their -10, and don't care about raising it?
Vic Jefferson
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#10 - 2015-04-22 18:33:52 UTC
el cowboy wrote:
I do not think that tactic is really wrong but there should just be more LASTING consequences than there are currently.


There are. The really amazing part about it is that it's up to the players to determine what these consequences are, not the sterile, faceless, boring game mechanics.

Arguably, when you gank and pod someone in an NPC corporation, you do lose a fair bit of standing with that corp. I think I'm -10 with the many of them for this reason, and close on many more. There's an academic consequence for you, but honestly, It should be left to the players.

Vote Vic Jefferson for CSM X.....XI.....XII?
Cade Windstalker
#11 - 2015-04-22 19:26:59 UTC
el cowboy wrote:
Gate camps are one thing, I am more refering to the going out in catalysts with a cheap fit to kill high value targets. I do not think that tactic is really wrong but there should just be more LASTING consequences than there are currently.

And before you go into do not fly what you can't afford to lose, everything I fly I can afford to lose, but why should I have to keep paying for things to people that in a non linear coded world that favors loopholes and does nothing to hold people accountable for their actions?

Again, I do not mind any of the tactics people use in Eve because it is a game that is harsh. I like that it is harsh and I think it should just be more harsh. The issue is that the game is off balance for how harsh the game is for people that do things legitimately and those that are "criminals". If you made it harsher for people to be a criminal I wonder how many QQ and your making the game too hard posts we would see.


So, first off, CCP have done a lot to increase consequences for gankers in the last ~4-5 years. The insurance changes to ganking, the bounty system changes, Freighter changes, Blockade Runner changes, and crime-watch changes to name what I can think of in 2 minutes. All of those got a ton of QQ surrounding them, and in most cases the player-base's reaction was more or less "HTFU and adapt" to the complaining gankers.

You keep paying for things because you keep losing them. The tools for you to avoid this exist in the game and while none of them are perfect neither are the tools available to the gankers.

They still have to grind back that sec-status hit. That's their consequence. What you're arguing here isn't that there are no consequences, because there are, it's that you don't feel the consequences are harsh enough. That's fair, but that's also entirely your opinion and while I'm sure many people share it I've run into more than a few who also think it's fine and who feel that the penalties are too harsh. It's still just an opinion though.
Arthur Aihaken
Kenshin Academia.
Kenshin Shogunate.
#12 - 2015-04-22 20:01:39 UTC
Aren't there tags available to buy back your security status to some extent? Because that's not quite "grinding"...

I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week.
James Baboli
Warp to Pharmacy
#13 - 2015-04-22 20:05:30 UTC
Jimmmy Jones wrote:
And here I thought someone named El Cowboy would be more supportive of a wild west not ruled by the iron fist of the law.

Maybe we should rename him "El Sheriff"

In EVE, the only thing permanent is Biomassing.

-1. This won't effect recycled catalyst alts anyway.


SP (outside t3s) is now forever!
And so are a few monuments to all our collective sins.

Talking more,

Flying crazier,

And drinking more

Making battleships worth the warp
Enya Sparhawk
Black Tea and Talons
#14 - 2015-04-22 20:20:46 UTC
Make CONCORD more aggressive.

Fíorghrá: Grá na fírinne

Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad.

Bíonn súil le muir ach ní bhíonn súil le tír.

Is maith an scéalaí an aimsir.

When the lost ships of Greece finally return home...
Mag's
Azn Empire
#15 - 2015-04-22 20:28:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Enya Sparhawk wrote:
Make CONCORD more aggressive.
Yea they should call you names in Local and tell 'your mom' jokes, before killing your ship.

Edit: Oh it's this thread again. Just one more nerf and it will be balanced.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Iain Cariaba
#16 - 2015-04-22 20:33:38 UTC
Cade Windstalker wrote:
el cowboy wrote:
Gate camps are one thing, I am more refering to the going out in catalysts with a cheap fit to kill high value targets. I do not think that tactic is really wrong but there should just be more LASTING consequences than there are currently.

And before you go into do not fly what you can't afford to lose, everything I fly I can afford to lose, but why should I have to keep paying for things to people that in a non linear coded world that favors loopholes and does nothing to hold people accountable for their actions?

Again, I do not mind any of the tactics people use in Eve because it is a game that is harsh. I like that it is harsh and I think it should just be more harsh. The issue is that the game is off balance for how harsh the game is for people that do things legitimately and those that are "criminals". If you made it harsher for people to be a criminal I wonder how many QQ and your making the game too hard posts we would see.


So, first off, CCP have done a lot to increase consequences for gankers in the last ~4-5 years. The insurance changes to ganking, the bounty system changes, Freighter changes, Blockade Runner changes, and crime-watch changes to name what I can think of in 2 minutes. All of those got a ton of QQ surrounding them, and in most cases the player-base's reaction was more or less "HTFU and adapt" to the complaining gankers.

You keep paying for things because you keep losing them. The tools for you to avoid this exist in the game and while none of them are perfect neither are the tools available to the gankers.

They still have to grind back that sec-status hit. That's their consequence. What you're arguing here isn't that there are no consequences, because there are, it's that you don't feel the consequences are harsh enough. That's fair, but that's also entirely your opinion and while I'm sure many people share it I've run into more than a few who also think it's fine and who feel that the penalties are too harsh. It's still just an opinion though.

Thanks to the whining of carebears over the years, I can now fly my highsec haulers around with 100% security, because I took the advice of the gankers on how to avoid getting ganked.

We don't need further nerfs to ganking, we need fewer players with an unearned sense of entitlement.
Iyacia Cyric'ai
Lai Dai Counterintelligence
#17 - 2015-04-23 01:11:36 UTC
People regularly gank in high-sec with -10 status. This doesn't do anything.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#18 - 2015-04-23 04:30:13 UTC
el cowboy wrote:

Ultimately I just want to see actual consequences for being a criminal in high sec and to lesser extent in low sec.



let me guess....jumped by an undercover ganker who cased the system as a mission runner a few days. Way it goes sometimes. Pretend in a wh...d-scan once in while if paranoid.


Not all neg sec people are evil gankers and pirates. I when in low sec away from my 0.0 home I did not wait to be fired upon when away from gates (well after the first couple tard deaths to gate guns...forgot low and 0.0 not the same, doh). I went first blood if possible. Known pirate corp members landing in the area...you can assume not there to form up an open pve fleet. Not all pirates have blinky red outlaw to make this cut and dry. You can get the new to the trade ones who still count towards sec status hits.


FW says hi too, its in their best interest to shoot first and ask questions later. Fair stance....non-FW is not really getting much from the plex otherwise. And its not like you can wonder maybe its an explorer you gunned down.
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2015-04-23 05:04:18 UTC
el cowboy wrote:
I think there should be a second level of security status put into the game. I have thought for a long time that there was too easy of a mechanism to be able to do bad things with very little consequence. People can kill people in high and low sec and after a few hours of ratting they can go back and do it again day after day and week after week.

There should be some way that Concord can distinguish which characters are prone to criminal activities independent of their current pointless security status. If someone continually is killing people in high sec they should be flagged permanently or have some very slow recovery of status.

One other thing that might work is the more you have to farm security status the less you actually receive so that at some point you no longer receive positive security status from doing mundane activities like ratting.

Ultimately I just want to see actual consequences for being a criminal in high sec and to lesser extent in low sec.



Ok, now queue the incessant barrage of flaming and care bear comments from people that think it is fun to go out in low vaulue suicide ships because they do not like a fair fight.


To make it short, no

-1
Cade Windstalker
#20 - 2015-04-23 05:19:57 UTC
Iain Cariaba wrote:
Thanks to the whining of carebears over the years, I can now fly my highsec haulers around with 100% security, because I took the advice of the gankers on how to avoid getting ganked.

We don't need further nerfs to ganking, we need fewer players with an unearned sense of entitlement.


Technically there's nothing you can do to be 100% secure, since there's always the chance someone will just decide they should shoot you for no other reason than "I felt like it" but you can make yourself an unattractive target. That's still part of Eve's risk vs reward dynamics though.
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