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Proposed Changes Empire Space and some supporting changes

First post
Author
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#1 - 2015-04-22 07:58:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Noragen Neirfallas
Current Proposal (after reading the entire thread again)

All points are still open for discussion

A constellation structure set in one system that gives a bonus to bearing by the corp/alliance that owns it. This includes but may not be limited too
1. Bounty payouts
2. Mission rewards
3. LP Generation
4. Mining cycle times
5. Station related fees

It will also provide to the corp/alliance that owns it
Your Corp/Alliance ticker next to the empire that owns the space throughout the constellation AKA sov lite (if not claimed it will be blank or say unclaimed)
The ticker will link to your corp/alliance description (will show who is active in the area you are in. Maybe you will join up?)
I have toyed with the idea of faction police bearing your alliance logo but have been told and agree its kinda silly. what do you think?
Slightly increased refining yields
Slightly reduced production times

Ideas to discuss
Cap an alliance to owning only one of these in Empire space?
Scaling costs in owning more then one of these in Empire space?
Wardecs getting scaling costs that get quite expensive beyond 10 decs

It requires
An upkeep cost of some sort that is not insignificant but on the other hand is not bank breaking to a smaller group of players
You to defend it if somebody else decides your constellation should be theirs (insert current ideas for vulnerability periods and entosis links). This will require a wardec by the offensive party. Unclaimed one's could be Entosised by anybody

To prevent abuse of the newly formed battling bear corps
Wardecs would be hard capped at 10 offensive decs (or whatever the powers that be work out is acceptable). This would leave Mercenary work in highsec viable while pretty much destroying the blanket decs (sorry guys Bear). Assisting would be possible for both sides of a war however an assist would count as 1 of the 10 war limit. To prevent abuse assisting a corp defensively it would be possible to assist all their defensive wars as if they were the same war.

The goal of all this?
Drive content while removing the predator/prey system that currently is the way things are. I have recently spent a lot of time with groups that would fight if they thought they stood a chance. I feel this proposal would drive conflict between like groups while not removing the value of mercenary work. If you have other ideas to support this goal please post them.

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Danalee
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#2 - 2015-04-22 08:27:26 UTC
I think it's broken in a way that it lacks meaning.

The way forward should in my opinion be a combination of things;
- Having a CORP/Alliance shouldn't be as empty as it is.
-> maybe each corp should have a structure by default? A home base of sorts?
-> maybe the system where the structure resides could have a form of boosts of the cop's chosing?
-> maybe destroying/entosising (is that a word?) this structure would mean defeat for the corp?
-> maybe defeat would result in bad stuff happening to the corp? A fixed tax that goes to the winner untill the warfees are covered? dunno... ideas welcome.

- NPC corps should be a thing for newbies only. Real newbies.

- Wars should have goals for both parties and the fees should be adapted to those goals.

D.

Bear

Proud member of the Somalian Coast Guard Authority

Member and Juror of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#3 - 2015-04-22 08:33:27 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:

My thoughts on the matter are as follows:

First, severe nerfs to NPC corps. Only player corps should be capable of using L4 mission agents and receive LP from Incursions, and NPC corp players older than 90 days have an additional 10% tax on top of normal.

If being in a player corp is the optimal choice for generating personal income, then being in a corp becomes something worth fighting for. That will never happen so long as NPC corps have so few functional penalties/limitations. Doing this also takes a step towards rebalancing risk vs reward, since NPC corps give up almost nothing in exchange for a huge buff to safety.

Secondly, the dec dodge exploit must be either removed or harshly punished. There are a number of ways this can be done, and I personally favor the generation of killrights against a player who drops to an NPC corp during an active war(or anyone who rejoins a player corp within 72 hours after having dropped, perhaps). Regardless, the ability to fold a corp and make it over again in a matter of minutes must be removed. Therefore, corp creation price should increase, and possibly have a cooldown associated with specific characters creating a corporation after having left one. Furthermore, any corp that dissolves during an active war has it's name and corp ticker suspended, and given to the attacking corp as a trophy.

Thirdly, player corps would receive the ability to improve mission LP rewards in a specific consellation via a starbase module. Only one can exist per constellation, so if you want the bonus you have to destroy the starbase of the current owner. The map would show which corp controlls the module, and what system it is located in. This incentivizes PvE corps to fight amongst themselves for better territory, as well as give player corps reasons to have assets in space for reasons besides industry and manufacturing.

To summarize:

Only player corps can access L4 missions or receive LP from incursions.
NPC corp taxes are raised +10% for players over 90 days old.
Killrights generated against dec dodging.
Corps that dissolve during an active war have their names and ticker lost, given to the attacker as a trophy.
Corp creation price increase.
Corp creation cooldown after leaving a player corp.
Highsec ESS as a starbase module, one per constellation. Boosts LP given from mission rewards to corp members.

And then, player corps are worth fighting for. The defender has a stake in the game, the rewards that come with being in a player corp. The typical highsec corps also have a reason to fight one another, for control of the constellation.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#4 - 2015-04-22 09:42:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Noragen Neirfallas
Post 1 condensed

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Lachesiss
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-04-22 10:04:25 UTC
*Ban alt reps*
This means any alt repping is slaughtered by concord. Not this flashy yellow crap. Alts would have to join the corps that are actually in the war.

*Ban fighting on the main trade hubs* Actually stuff it ban it system wide on main trade hubs and anybody at war cannot enter the trade hub system.

Bring back the 3d hologram naked chick in gallente stations. It would take there mind off aggression.


Ahh sod it make all of eve null and we can just kill each other everywhere.

Blimey these Mojito are strong *Hic*

On the third day after your birth myself and my sister's will come to you and decide your fate.

Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#6 - 2015-04-22 10:09:32 UTC
Lachesiss wrote:
*Ban alt reps*
This means any alt repping is slaughtered by concord. Not this flashy yellow crap. Alts would have to join the corps that are actually in the war.

*Ban fighting on the main trade hubs* Actually stuff it ban it system wide on main trade hubs and anybody at war cannot enter the trade hub system.

Bring back the 3d hologram naked chick in gallente stations. It would take there mind off aggression.


Ahh sod it make all of eve null and we can just kill each other everywhere.

Blimey these Mojito are strong *Hic*

Lol. I agree with reps and boosts forced in alliance/whomever assisted the war. As far as suspect games go I think that is another kettle of fish

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Valkin Mordirc
#7 - 2015-04-22 10:14:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
Threadnaught ahoy!


Regardless. My views, and to note I've done the Mercin business my entire time in EVE. It's something I feel I have some idea on how it works.


War as they are now, for the attacker,


Currently the wardeccing system provides lopsided strengths and weakness for both sides, This may come across as balanced but that doesn't mean it's balanced. Starting with.

The Wardec System is an Isk Sink and should be, however

Currently running a Corp/Alliance for Wardecs, is a rather heavy isk sink. And so it cause a problem. That problem forces wardecing corps to band together into alliances, shared income from a large member base, means more targets, more war. This is a problem as it basically causes smaller corps, mainly ones who have just started out, to be at a disadvantage. Because being outnumbered and with no set foundation in the corp, will cause problems.


Corps that are just starting need to be either shielded for a certain time, to allow them to organize and create a foundation. However this has obvious abusable issues with corp rolling. Which I cover later. But a starting corp, unless it's group of people coming out of already existing corp. But from my experiences, small corps get rolled over. They can't defend not because they don't have the ability to. But because they have not had the allocated time, in order to set themselves proper.


Its very easy for a small corp to damage a large mercenary corp/alliance. I've done it, I've seen it done. The problem is, most small corps either A, are so new with new players they don't know what they are doing, or B, they are some under organize they can't forum properly against them. Small corps now-a-days are not even looked at twice before engaged by mercenary, that is a huge advantage. You don't register on the radar for them so you can all sorts of sneaky underhanded things.


It is difficult for smaller wardec corps to exist because of this as the war cost can quickly skyrocket into the billions, which means, you either have be a bittervet with a side alt for making isk to sink, or you're a newbro and need to join the existing current merc Alliances, (The Marmite Collective, Forsaken Asylum so on)

A newish player joining a big merc alliance isn't really a problem and it promotes that new player into learning more about the game. However it is a problem because it is a necessity and can cause stagnation. So far the only Merc alliance to pop into existence in that last 2 years in Absolute Defiance. All other corps either remain incredibly small, get sucked into the Merc Alliance, or die out.

I've seen thousands of Wardecing corps go in and out, A Lot of them, tend to end up in one of the major Merc Alliances if they decide to stay in highsec at all. This honestly is a bad thing as like before it causes stagnation with in Highsec. It's the same Mercenaries fighting the same people over and over. No change happens. As a note, for references, Look at the current war between Absolute Defiance and The Marmite Collective. There more activity going right now (Evident by forum e-peen battles) then ever before. THAT is what I want from Highsec. That is what makes people stay. It's the thrill of the kill, taking on something challenging.

That is a great thing. Because its change, it not the same stagnated, Undock, sit here, shoot this red thing. Oh shot back, Everyone undock and blow it up. Or, Undock run locate. Send scout, bring what you need. Blow it up. repeat.

(^ That right there nearly killed EVE for me personally. I can not stand having to do the same thing over. )


The Attacker disadvantages are against them in the defenders favor, but


( Before I go into this part, for those of you who don't know, Mercenaries accept contracts from other players, these contracts either anywhere between 100mil upwards to several billion. It is the primary source of income for Mercs)

There a tons, literally tons of thing that can go wrong. From a Mercenary perspective, one wrong move and your jumped you lose a Vindicator to a bunch of thrashers, and suddenly you no longer have contracts, which supply a hefty about of your own wars. If you lose a ship like that, people are not going to hire you. That means a loss in income. Which means less wars.


The defenders can bring in allies to fight the attacker, and the attack can be whelped. Again hurting future contracts.


The defenders can declare mutual war, forcing the attackers into a very long fight. If the Defenders are capable it could very well mean the death of the Merc.


These are a few things that can happen. But the problem is, most mercenary alliances are still going to survive. Even if they get the rare whelping, This is mainly because of the size they are forced to operate.


I'll use Marmite as an example here, though you can use just about every Mercenary Alliance as it's happened to pretty much all of them. Just switch the name to whatever you prefer.


When you start getting a large group of people. Like Marmite it becomes more than just a group of people playing, It's a enty on it's own. You are no longer playing with your friends. You are playing with The Marmite Collective. It's become an idea. A thing. And this thing needs people into to survive. And the Marmitians, Mermaids, what have you, know this as well and what to keep it going. They are Marmite. **** everyone else.


And because of the war the current war Wardec work, (Large amounts of isk=more targets) It's not going to die out if you kill them a few times. Wars end, and they go about their day. Which means that you can't really win total victory against a mercenary. You can keep them at bay, but not totally.


(Part 1 -_-)
#DeleteTheWeak
Solonius Rex
F0RCED ENTRY
Pandemic Legion
#8 - 2015-04-22 10:14:16 UTC
I think the corp system itself is broken.

First off, single-man corps should not exist. Corps should have a minimum number of people requirement, say around 20 people, and that if you are inactive in a corp for more than 3-4 months, CCP automatically drops you from that corp and places you back in the NPC corp. Corps that drop below the 20 man minimum, are given 24 hour notice before they are closed, and everyone is kicked.

Secondly, leaving a corp should have penalties. NPC corps should have higher tax rates, around 30%, and if you drop corp, you cannot join another corp for 1 week. This will prevent people from lightly hopping around corps, which i think is stupid.

Thirdly, friendly fire off should have penalties. Concord should charge your corp a premium for the ability to protect your members. This should come in the form of a minimum fee, plus taxes, that is charged to the corp. Once you stop paying, friendly fire turns back on again with a 24 hour notice.

With that in mind, any corp that is in a war, or gets wardecced, should be subject to stricter penalties if people wish to drop corp during wars.

We need to make corps meaningful in order to make wardecs meaningful.
Valkin Mordirc
#9 - 2015-04-22 10:15:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Valkin Mordirc
(Part 2 _-_ )

Attackers can easily, disban corps, because they are prepared for it. They have been around long enough, to forum doctrines, FC's, Leadership tiers, allocate assets were needed. Forge Contracts, made friends. They are prepared to handled almost everything if they see it coming.


The advantages and disadvantages of defenders


Corp Rolling, and Single man Corps.

Lets get the start off with the Defenders because advantage, and the attackers largest annoyance. Corp Rolling, Dropping, and Single man corps.

Corp Rollings, is a "not-an-exploit" exploit. It happens CCP lets it happen we have to deal with it for right now. However for those of you who don't know, it where a defend has everyone in corp drop. Which drops the war, and re-creates the corp with the same name fresh. The attacker has to redec them in order to fight them, Each dec cost would be around 50mil. A corps creation is what? 10.000isk? It makes incredibly easy for someone to avoid wars.

This is risk free means of avoidance is bad, as if complete negates the effect was wars. Making the mechanic broken right then and there. Corps creation fee's should be increased to about 50mil. The same price it cost to wardec a small corp.


Corp dropping, dropping corp to avoid a war, is not a huge issue. However it does allow for some people to circumvent issue. Like dropping your corp so you can mine, or mission. To stop this from happening I think, perhaps a 6 to 12 hour grace period. Should be placed that if you drop corp, you will still be an active target for the attacker. But if you are killed with in that grace period by an attacker, you are stop being a target.

So, Corpie A drops corp, gets a 12 hour combat timer with attacker, Attacker B kills Corpie A, Corpie A is no longer a valid target.


Single man corps would not be a problem, as long as increased corp creation fee's are introduced.


The Defender and the Meta of not being able to fight

There is a large. If not HUGE, idea that defenders can not go toe to toe with mercenaries. Mainly this is because of not understanding the game. Defenders do not need any extra help from a mechanical standpoint. Barring a grace period where they should not be deccable.

I can go on for hours on how defending corps can easily break a large merc alliance. Even using T1 ships, you can easily do it. THis isn't the problem. The problem is that most defenders believe they are at the disadvantage. So they act like it. Developing a way so defenders are encourage to fight back, so they understand they are not completely on the knifes edge is a huge must.

That is a defender biggest hurdle. Realising they are not going up a brick wall. And letting them know that from an attacker side of the fence. It's not a good to say, HEY look OVER HERE at this time! Hit me here! So the word doesn't really get out.
#DeleteTheWeak
Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#10 - 2015-04-22 10:16:04 UTC
Valkin Mordirc wrote:
(Also reserved as a just in case)

lol

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Valkin Mordirc
#11 - 2015-04-22 11:18:57 UTC
In Summary.


Wars,

Wars need to be limited. I hate that I'm saying that but they do. Maybe skill based on how many you can run at a certain time. That would make it so that it not necessary for merc Alliances to form.

Cost, Wardec cost need to change as well. Corps need to be shielded at creation but only for a week. Then after the War Dec shield ends, they are dec able. The Wardec should cost will depend on a few things. Member count, Corp lifetime, should be to major factors. A new corps just made with 5 members SHOULD be more expensive than a 300 man corp that's been around for a year.

Corp creation, Corp need to have more value. Make them cost more, maybe in long run add more benefits that tie into NPC standings.


Recurring Wardecs, If you want to dec somebody for say, 3 weeks and it cost 50mil per week. It should paid up front for 150mil. The attacker can then add more time to after that, but it should have an increased amount added on so instead of costing 50mil maybe 100mil or 75mil.


Corp droppers should retain, combat timers with them. Combat timers that drop if the pilot is killed with in the grace period.



I think that covers everything?
#DeleteTheWeak
Solecist Project
#12 - 2015-04-22 13:02:43 UTC
I know this will get lost in here ...
... but I want to once again quote CCP Tuxford's trolling ...

When you enter New Eden you are at war with everyone ...
... and you have to declare peace!

A peace-tax makes SO MUCH MORE SENSE IN THIS GAME than a war tax .....

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Solecist Project
#13 - 2015-04-22 13:04:55 UTC
Anyway ... this isn't GD ..... so please accept my apology for this question ....

... is there a point to give actually though-out input?

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#14 - 2015-04-22 13:26:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Noragen Neirfallas
Solecist Project wrote:
Anyway ... this isn't GD ..... so please accept my apology for this question ....

... is there a point to give actually though-out input?

Yah if this gets good ill mail it off to various 'people'

Besides this is where the cool people hang out. they can move it once the content is down Lol

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

Solecist Project
#15 - 2015-04-22 13:41:13 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
Solecist Project wrote:
Anyway ... this isn't GD ..... so please accept my apology for this question ....

... is there a point to give actually though-out input?

Yah if this gets good ill mail it off to various 'people'

Besides this is where the cool people hang out. they can move it once the content is down Lol

Mail it? Why?
Wouldn't a sufficiently supported thread in F&I be better?

This sounds like you want to gather ideas for others to claim for themselves. :p
Paranoia is strong in me when it comes to this.

That ringing in your ears you're experiencing right now is the last gasping breathe of a dying inner ear as it got thoroughly PULVERISED by the point roaring over your head at supersonic speeds. - Tippia

Tora Bushido
The Marmite Mercenaries
P I R A T
#16 - 2015-04-22 13:53:25 UTC
Lachesiss wrote:
*Ban alt reps*
This means any alt repping is slaughtered by concord. Not this flashy yellow crap. Alts would have to join the corps that are actually in the war.

*Ban fighting on the main trade hubs* Actually stuff it ban it system wide on main trade hubs and anybody at war cannot enter the trade hub system.

Bring back the 3d hologram naked chick in gallente stations. It would take there mind off aggression.


Ahh sod it make all of eve null and we can just kill each other everywhere.

Blimey these Mojito are strong *Hic*
I like them all, including the Mojitto's !

DELETE THE WEAK, ADAPT OR DIE !

Meta Gaming Level VII, Psycho Warfare Level X, Smack Talk Level VII.

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-04-22 13:59:25 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
PvEers have a goal

Yea, make overall game significantly worse to 'make them interested' Cool

This approach will get you much support!

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#18 - 2015-04-22 14:13:18 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
PvEers have a goal

Yea, make overall game significantly worse to 'make them interested' Cool

This approach will get you much support!

Feel free to post constructively below. Or don't just avoid the urge to troll needlessly Smile

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2015-04-22 14:59:57 UTC
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
PvEers have a goal

Yea, make overall game significantly worse to 'make them interested' Cool

This approach will get you much support!

Feel free to post constructively below. Or don't just avoid the urge to troll needlessly Smile

Well... I can only say that approaching the problem only from Merc side will not give any good results. You see only one side: you want people to wardec and kill. You don't see it from other side. From side of players who does not want to be decced and killed.

Try to approach the problem from other side: what needs to be changed in the game to make PVE players MORE interested in fight?
I can say that it's mostly PvPers who make PvEers evade PvP at all cost. Duels and suspect baits - once you have seen it you will never accept duel request or open fire to some suspect. Even more - you WILL warn your friends. Result: the little opportunities for learning to PvP in high-sec are gone.

I think fixing duels and suspect games would increase people's interest in high-sec PvP for the start.
- no neutral logi for duels and suspects
- no OGBs for duels
- maybe disable bumping function when in duel
Not sure if this would provide more PvP players but it will stop to make people to evade it.

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"

Noragen Neirfallas
Emotional Net Loss
#20 - 2015-04-22 15:43:15 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
Noragen Neirfallas wrote:
PvEers have a goal

Yea, make overall game significantly worse to 'make them interested' Cool

This approach will get you much support!

Feel free to post constructively below. Or don't just avoid the urge to troll needlessly Smile

Well... I can only say that approaching the problem only from Merc side will not give any good results. You see only one side: you want people to wardec and kill. You don't see it from other side. From side of players who does not want to be decced and killed.

Try to approach the problem from other side: what needs to be changed in the game to make PVE players MORE interested in fight?
I can say that it's mostly PvPers who make PvEers evade PvP at all cost. Duels and suspect baits - once you have seen it you will never accept duel request or open fire to some suspect. Even more - you WILL warn your friends. Result: the little opportunities for learning to PvP in high-sec are gone.

I think fixing duels and suspect games would increase people's interest in high-sec PvP for the start.
- no neutral logi for duels and suspects
- no OGBs for duels
- maybe disable bumping function when in duel
Not sure if this would provide more PvP players but it will stop to make people to evade it.

So you feel that increasing income for PvE'ers in battles with other PvE'ers over PvE based objectives Would not encourage PvP in highsec? what would encourage PvP in highsec then? I'm all ears on changes to assist with this idea but this isn't the post on how to fix suspect mechanics to be honest. That's a whole new kettle of fish that also needs to be looked at. Lets look at one major issue on this thread and I'll do a suspect mechanics thread another day.

Again not trolling but if income isn't a motivator what is? Also I was a unista. I can appreciate what it is like to be wardecced constantly and how hard it is under current mechanics to deal with it. While I am currently on the other side of id it's not so long ago that I dont remember what it was like Smile.

Now for a story. There was once a group of bears called The Foundation To Protect Endangered Carebears. These lads were by far some of the most beary bears the game has ever seen. But they had enough in their ranks that were willing to give PvP a go. After one battle with them where they tried to drop on our small fleet that turned out to not be so small (we had even numbers in the area we just weren't expecting a fight) we convoed them and worked out a bit of a deal where we would take some 'fair' fights with them every day we could both get numbers and school them in similar PvP. Now while killing them was an actual contract and we couldn't give up going for their PvEers too their PvP lads were more solid for this. This small alliance claimed a decent sized section of highsec for themselves and through one means or another began to drive out all competition in the area. Their motivation was ownership and this simple motivation pushed career miners and mission runners to band together and form some of the worst PvP fleets you have ever seen Lol. But they had fun and they took the space from their less aggressive competitors. Had they continued at that rate they may very well have 'owned' half of amatar space by now and certainly could go toe to toe with any merc corp.

I feel if you combine 'ownership' and 'ISK rewards' together in highsec and lowsec with a new set of structures that lets everybody know you live here and rewards you for living here it will not only improve highsec and lowsec but will also drive competition for the better areas and thus will attract people to form bigger highsec groups to compete over these while at the same time allowing the smaller groups to get into 'less desirable' areas and grow there while not really getting picked on by anybody due to the changes i proposed in declaring war on others. I would be intrested to hear your thoughts on this?

Member and Judge of the Court of Crime and Punishment

Noragens basically the Chribba of C&P - Zimmy Zeta

Confirming that we all play in Noragen's eve. - BeBopAReBop

ISD Buldath favorite ISD

'"****station games" - Sun Tzu' - Ralph King Griffin

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