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Getting into incursions

First post
Author
Dakhath Ebonheart
Evolving Hatred
#1 - 2011-09-13 15:09:18 UTC
I know Incursions have been in the game for awhile now, but I have as of yet not taken part in one. I am kinda feelin like trying something new and have heard that Incursions are even better isk than sanctums. By looking around on the wiki and in-game, I have found out what they are and what you have to do to complete them, technically. I am here asking for some more practical knowledge from some who have probably done them.

My questions:

How do I form up? I can see from my journal where the form-up system is. Just go there and ask in local? Some of them are in lowsec and that doesn't seem to be the safest way to get in a profitable fleet.

What is in the most demand? I can armor or shield tank and use any t2 guns on any race battleship. I can also fly any race logistics ship. I have heard logis are welcomed into fleets easily, and I have heard high dps/high resists/high EHP Battleships.

If bringing a battleship:
Armor or shield?
What range?
Focus on high alpha? or overall DPS?
Is it truly that important to be totally un-dependent on cap? (passive hardeners and projectiles/missiles)?

And for logis:
Is it safe to plan on having another logi for cap chain?
Which is most desired?

And last: I have heard that: "the more pimped out your ship is the faster you will be picked." I am not accustomed to flying around in really expensive ships, especially in lowsec. If I show up to the party in a t2 fit t1 battleship, or t2 fit logi, will i have any chance at getting into a fleet? And, what the hell is "getting picked?" Who decides who gets in fleet and who doesnt?
NeoShocker
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#2 - 2011-09-13 15:23:36 UTC  |  Edited by: NeoShocker
Go to channel. Ingame, BTL Pub. Then check the channel's motd. All the details and ship fits is there. BTL is mostly shields ships channel. There is armor channel, but not into it. Really depends on demand, but generally logistics are needed, followed by webbibg ships.

And it is true, better the fittings and ship you're in, faster and more likely to be invited. People love my 100% max leadership skirmish webbing range bonus for dps sleipnir :-) or a loki.
Shpenat
General Defense Union
Transgress
#3 - 2011-09-13 16:05:23 UTC
move yourself to incursion constellation

join BTP Pub (shield) or The Ditanian Fleet (armor) channel and read its MOTD

put X in fitting in either TDF, BTL, or incursion channel

wait to be offered fleet.....
Dakhath Ebonheart
Evolving Hatred
#4 - 2011-09-14 01:23:18 UTC
Thanks for the information. Next time I log in I will join the channels you described.
Har Harrison
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2011-09-14 02:27:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Har Harrison
Stay to high sec if you are picking up a random fleet otherwise you will become an expensive loot pianata.

Make sure you have high resists to all 4 damage types in whatever flavor you tank - NPCs do omni damage.

Bonused webs are useful as the NPCs do move fast. They also switch target.

If you are using a basilisk or guardian, you need a cap chain partner. Logi 4 = 2 cap transfers. Logi 5 = 1 for you and a spare for the fleet.

Using active hardeners is ok, but some NPCs do neut, so try to be fairly stable. If you have cap transfer available in the fleet, they can top you up periodically..

Try to get known in one of the channels mentioned - people will grab people they know if they x up, or if someone in their fleet tells them to grab person abc as I flew with them and they were cool.

Pimping out your ship is ok as you can make good isk and it pays for itself one you get into a fleet :)

Examples of potential Guardian setups (if you lack a PG implant, upgrade to the t2 rigs)

[Guardian, Incursion]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Magnetic Plating II
True Sansha Adaptive Nano Plating

ECCM - Radar II
ECCM Projector II

Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Regard' I Power Projector
Large 'Regard' I Power Projector

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I


Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x5



[Guardian, Incursion V2]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Armor EM Hardener II
Centus C-Type Armor Thermic Hardener
Magnetic Plating II
Centii C-Type Adaptive Nano Plating

ECCM - Radar II
ECCM Projector II

Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Regard' I Power Projector
Large 'Regard' I Power Projector

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Ancillary Current Router I


Light Armor Maintenance Bot I x5

Sturmwolke
#6 - 2011-09-14 05:29:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Sturmwolke
Dakhath Ebonheart wrote:
How do I form up? I can see from my journal where the form-up system is. Just go there and ask in local? Some of them are in lowsec and that doesn't seem to be the safest way to get in a profitable fleet.


Simply, yes. The more complicated answer, it depends. Lowsec and nullsec incursions are almost exclusively alliance controlled atm, the only true public incursions are those in highsec. Now, forming up from the local incursion channel is like playing with a hand grenade - best not to. Not many experienced incursion fleets recruit from the local incursion channel due to its nature - high newbie population (reflected in bad to worse ship fits) and high character turnover (making it harder to identify dubious characters).

For highsec incursion, the are currently 2 major moderated channels - split into shields ("BTL Pub") and armor ("The Ditanian Fleet"). There are a few splinter channels here and there, but to start with, those are the main ones you should have open at all times, depending on what you're flying. The moderation's major aim is to eliminate ship losses due to griefer acts, clueless pilots or bad fits (that deserves to be spanked), though of course keep in mind, like the rest of EVE, nothing's an absolute guarantee.

Dakhath Ebonheart wrote:
What is in the most demand?


Most in demand are logistics, both shields and armor. Naturally, there are more folks running shields than armor due to the extension from missioning. That has its pros and cons; more shield fleets to get into but at the same time the sheer numbers leads to a dilution skills/ship fits and character anonymity. Armor fleets are usually well skilled (in terms of fit) and pilot experience, however, they have roughly half the numbers for fleets. The smaller armor community makes it a little easier to gauge character reliability and skills.

Dakhath Ebonheart wrote:

If bringing a battleship:
Armor or shield?
What range?
Focus on high alpha? or overall DPS?
Is it truly that important to be totally un-dependent on cap? (passive hardeners and projectiles/missiles)?


- Depends on your skill and inclination.
- Incursion Vanguard (0-50km, typical engagement range 10-20km), Incursion Assault/HQ (0-150km sniper fit, 0-60km midrange fit), Incursion Kundalini Manifest (mainly 0-60km midrange fit, light need for 0-150km sniper).
- Depends on a lot of things, I don't think there is any real answer.
- Important but not critical, except in a few scenarios. Shield boats typically run with 2-3 hardeners. Armor boats maxes around 2 hardeners, sometimes none at all.

Dakhath Ebonheart wrote:

And for logis:
Is it safe to plan on having another logi for cap chain?
Which is most desired?


Basilisk (shield) and Guardians (armor) require cap chain partners (with each other, repsectively). In SHTF situations, several battleships (with 2 free high utility) can provide the replacement cap chain. However, it is not fleet best practices to rely on them as a regular partner, due to the limited cap range and susceptibility to NPC ECM. Scimitars (shield) and Oneiros (armor) do not usually require cap chain partners as they can be fitted to be 100% cap stable. In cases where they are fitted with a full complement of tracking links, requiring a cap feed, the fleet is taking a calculated risk of an almost complete rep failure when SHTF.

Most desired are usually the Scimitars/Oneiros for their tracking links. However, imo, they're less desireable for Assaults sites and higher due to their inherent squishyness. They mostly get away with it atm because the NPC incursion AI don't rate them as high priority targets, but when they do get targeted sometimes, they can go poof in the blink on an eye.

Dakhath Ebonheart wrote:

And last: I have heard that: "the more pimped out your ship is the faster you will be picked." I am not accustomed to flying around in really expensive ships, especially in lowsec. If I show up to the party in a t2 fit t1 battleship, or t2 fit logi, will i have any chance at getting into a fleet? And, what the hell is "getting picked?" Who decides who gets in fleet and who doesnt?


Not necessarily true. Pimped guns usually try to compensate for low gunnery skills (not strictly the case for missiles though).
Dps ships that get picked are :

1) Right ships for incursion use (faction BS, Sleipneir, Abso, Loki, Legion, good T1 BS like Maelstrom, Abaddon etc etc)
2) Fitted with a MINIMUM number of damage mods (heatsink, BCU, mag/gyrostab, TE). 2 for armor boats and 3 for shield boats.
3) Tanked efficiently (all resists > 70%), typically 6-8 slots total including rigs.
4) Skilled T2 guns/missiles
5) Fitted proper e-war and utility mods (webs/painters/sebo)

As the highsec incursion scene gets crowded with people, competition is unfortunately unavoidable. You get zero isk for not winning. Hence, the ship/skill bar rises creating what some people tend to call as "elitism". It's a natural byproduct of all the intense competition. When it gets crowded, your best chances are joining Assaults fleets or higher as these fleets won't be too critical on your ship fit as long as you meet the minimum requirement/best practices.

Who gets to decide? Well the organizer of course ... aka your fleet commander.
They mostly go by reputation, so no shortcuts Big smile

P.S Jester/Ripard Teg recently wrote a nice fairly detailed blog on incursions at - http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/2011/08/guide-introduction-to-incursions-part-1.html
Except a few minor niggles, it's mostly spot on.

P.S Incursion shield fits - http://incursions.nexsoft.de/
Incursion armor fits - http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=IncursionArmorWorkshop
CCP Spitfire
C C P
C C P Alliance
#7 - 2011-09-14 06:48:07 UTC
Moved from 'EVE General Discussion".

Dakhath Ebonheart, you might want to check this excellent guide to incursions.

CCP Spitfire | Marketing & Sales Team @ccp_spitfire

Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#8 - 2011-09-14 15:15:48 UTC
Hi Ebonheart,

should you have any further questions after the above brilliant and detailed answers then feel free to convo me later today when you should have time, (post or mail me a time when you're on) and you can ask your remaining questions that I will try to answer to the best of my ability as a BTL moderator and full range incursion FC.

best regards
Ammzi
Ender Sai
Perkone
Caldari State
#9 - 2011-09-16 08:18:49 UTC
Related question;

How long does it normally take a fleet to clear out an incursion?

Say for vanguards? Obviously this will change depending on FC, and DPS of the fleet but I want a guesstimate.

Would I need to dedicate an hour to running 'cursions? 30 minutes? 3 hours? 16 hours X.
n00n3r
Malicious Destruction
#10 - 2011-09-16 08:34:31 UTC
Ender Sai wrote:
Related question;

How long does it normally take a fleet to clear out an incursion?

Say for vanguards? Obviously this will change depending on FC, and DPS of the fleet but I want a guesstimate.

Would I need to dedicate an hour to running 'cursions? 30 minutes? 3 hours? 16 hours X.


well, it usually takes somewhere from 5-10 minutes complete most vanguard sites (which is where you will probably want to start)

however for time allocation, I would usually set aside at least 1 hour because most fleets don't like that guy that only comes in for the quick hit and run. (it tends to slow the entire fleet down finding replacements)

Interested in Incursions? Check out our recruitment thread!  https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12104&find=unread

Ender Sai
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2011-09-16 09:25:58 UTC
Thank you, I just needed to know if 'cursions are a second job. :D

Now to debate Basi vs Scimi.
n00n3r
Malicious Destruction
#12 - 2011-09-16 11:09:11 UTC  |  Edited by: n00n3r
personally I would recommend Basi. Not that the Scimi is a bad logi, it's just that more people fly basi, and since they are needed in pairs, it just tends to be more preferable to FC's to grab two basi's and go.

Now since there are a lot of battleships that fly with energy transfers in their utility high slots, you could theoretically run a single basi in fleet and have it cap chain off the dps ship. But that tends to open the door to friendly fire incidents involving concord.

Interested in Incursions? Check out our recruitment thread!  https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12104&find=unread

Mr LaForge
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#13 - 2011-09-16 12:44:47 UTC
n00n3r wrote:

But that tends to open the door to friendly fire incidents involving concord.


Thats why you only do it with corp. :)

Stuff Goes here

n00n3r
Malicious Destruction
#14 - 2011-09-16 14:07:59 UTC  |  Edited by: n00n3r
Yes Mr LaForge, flying within a corp only fleet will shield you from concord in case any "mistakes" happen.

You will notice however, that I was responding to the poster above me, and with a simple mouse click (thanks to the new eve-gate functionality) I was able to deduce that this particular poster was in a corp consisting of a total of 3 members. So the likelihood of him flying within a corp only fleet is non existent.

But it was very nice of you to offer your wisdom to the masses regardless.

/cheers

Interested in Incursions? Check out our recruitment thread!  https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=12104&find=unread

Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2011-09-16 16:16:22 UTC
Mr LaForge wrote:
n00n3r wrote:

But that tends to open the door to friendly fire incidents involving concord.


Thats why you only do it with corp. :)


Not really - just keep your "are you sure you want to do this?" concord tag on and you won't ever shoot that basi that you partnered with with your nightmare. And yes, I have shot corpmates before, but never lost one of my nightmares to concord when buddying with a basi.

-Arazel
J Kunjeh
#16 - 2011-09-16 18:15:57 UTC
Jester's awesome blogs about Incursions and his 4-part Incursion Guide can be found here: http://jestertrek.blogspot.com/search/label/Incursions

"The world as we know it came about through an anomaly (anomou)" (The Gospel of Philip, 1-5) 

Jinn Rho
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2011-09-16 19:06:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Jinn Rho
Not sure what kind of tank the OP has originally trained for... but this discussion is obviously shield-sided. X

Between the two, it's my opinion that Armor (The Ditianian Fleet) is where it's at. Yes the community is smaller, but that is where it shines.
Generally, less people mean more consistent players means more experience and knowhow-- i.e. we know how to blitz sites for fast money. Someone above had mentioned that VG sites normally take 5-10 minutes? In armor, it takes 2-3 minutes.

A little breakdown of Incursion Blitzing 101: guns, tracking computers, and webs.
Guns. Yes missiles offer more consistent DPS, however when a site is competed, those slow moving missiles wont even touch a Sansha before guns rip it apart. And in competition, the fleet that does the most damage wins the site.
Tracking Computers. You can have all the paper DPS in the world, but it won't matter if you can't hit them (tracking). Armor mids are well suited for TCs.
Webs. Same story, use those mid slots for TCs and webs. Slow those Sansha down and pour on the DPS.

In other words, go Armor because we're generally more experienced (blitzing), we usually win sites over shield, and we know how to use modules that matter (TCs, webs, TPs) because our mids aren't filled with tank, unlike shield boats.



Also, if you are interested in doing armor logi, please read my breakdown/guide Armor Logistics for Dummies. If anything, just remember that pro incursion logi don't use ECCM because it's wasted...
DeepfriedTator
Moo Cow Moo
#18 - 2011-09-16 19:10:44 UTC
Someone above had mentioned that VG sites normally take 5-10 minutes? In armor, it takes 2-3 minutes.


In other words, go Armor because we're generally more experienced (blitzing), we usually win sites over shield, and we know how to use modules that matter (TCs, webs, TPs) because our mids aren't filled with tank, unlike shield boats.


Just my 2 cents.. the only time armor fleets be shield fleets is in NCO's with tons of frigs. Have yet to lose to one in an OTA or NMC. but then again I am usually in a shiney fleet.

He is right though if you are trained for armor go that route. While smaller community it does wtf pawn nco's

Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#19 - 2011-09-16 19:14:40 UTC
Ah Jinn, I think you're mistaken and those fleets you are hearing about are what we call rookie/novice fleets that do sites in 5-10 min.

First of all, you can not measure a site's duration since there're so many (at least 5 I can top off my head) methods to measure a site's duration that it would be impossible to compare data between fleets that haven't standardized their measurement.
The best (for now) is to measure a fleet's capabilities in the time between payouts. Which for the fleets I have been in has been down to 3 min. (not counting seconds).

So I suggest you take a peek in the shield community before you make up your mind about who and what.
BjornarGoesToSpace
Vicious Vikings.
#20 - 2011-09-19 07:35:21 UTC  |  Edited by: BjornarGoesToSpace
As a guy that has been in the game for some time, but just did incursions for the first time yesterday i can give some feedback.
As has been mentioned you use those two channels, one for shield and one for armor fleets.

Make your battleship either close range 10-50km or long range sniper 150km.
Overall DPS is the focus, doing vanguard sites you will mostly shoot frigates and some cruisers.
You put in just enough tank to survive, and then focus on maximum DPS and how to apply this DPS (Webs, tracking computers, sensor boosters (lots of frigates))
Regarding webs: Most web-ships have bonuses for it, and they use faction webs with a longer optimal.

I flew a guardian, so i never noticed getting neuted in the vanguardsites, but i know they do it in the higher-up sites i ran.

Oneiros'es can be cap stable without capchain, guardians cannot. Scimitars dont. The other shield logi, obelisk i believe uses cap chains afaik.
Its normal to be 3 logis in a site, but its possible with only 2.
I put faction on my Guardian for better resists, your lows should be dedicated to tank, and your mids should be either an afterburner and tracking link, or 2 tracking links. (i prefer ab + TL)

You will get picked for a fleet if they are waiting for get more people to get started or need a replacement and there is noone better than you.
You can use as much faction as you can afford, but i wouldnt recommend faction guns :p
The most pimp ships for shieldfleets i would say is machariels and nightmares. For armorfleets its probably vindicators, but blasterboats are useless in sites where they keep long range.

Edit: I just wanted to add that even tho we in armor won 1 more site than the shieldfleet we were competing with, their fleet was very shiny. Lots of macheriels put out the hurt like nobodys buisness!

Join Red Federation or Blue Republic for non-stop PvP :)